COVID-19 and 2020 Summer
Seriously. Can 2020 internships get cancelled for quarantine? Could they be remote?
Maybe I’m sketching.
RELATED DISCUSSIONS:
IB recruitment and Coronavirus.
Seriously. Can 2020 internships get cancelled for quarantine? Could they be remote?
Maybe I’m sketching.
RELATED DISCUSSIONS:
IB recruitment and Coronavirus.
Career Resources
Not going to lie this has been on my mind
some S&T groups are being relocated in case NY is donezo
what firms?
BAML and JPM, only affects a small portion of the desks though I don’t think interns will be affected
What do you mean donezo. Nothing is going to be donezo.
Banks are having people work a combination of remotely at home, at a disaster recovery locations and/or at the regular office. This will continue with less people working at any office location and more at home. It’s probably a coin flip if they cancel internships. I suppose it’s better to have on a resume than not but I highly doubt they keep interns this year. And if they do I can’t see how it would be feasible.
Can't have a solid conclusion but canceling might be extreme - if so budget for 2020 recruiting would be a sunk cost? Really need to see what is happening in next 3 weeks. But personally think that FT headcounts would be quite lower due to market downturn.
what about full time start dates?
Yeah I'm honestly really worried. I might be paranoid but this virus doesn't seem to be going anywhere...
Also worried, but seems like the whole situation is being overblown.
Maybe. But It doesn’t matter what the facts are it matters how businesses react, and they seem to be acting with precaution
Jefferies CFO just passed away from COVID, don’t seem like it’s overblown to me. Take a gander through some of the local Manhattan ICUs so you can understand just how overblown it is...
My hunch is we're entering a U-shaped recession that won't become truly evident until Q3 (i.e., jobs numbers and GDP may be strong for next few months, given the Fed is pulling out all stops with rate cuts for short-term stimulus). Hard for anyone to predict exact duration of recession but I suspect in the next 1-2 years (perhaps sooner) there will be a flurry of M&A/restructuring activity starting to brew as companies (travel sector first) begin to flirt with or trip debt covenants and need to explore strategic alternatives.
no debt has covenants anymore lol
Lmao this is so wrong
Lmfao you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about
*syndicated direct lending - it's a joke. Between the lack of covenants and unrealistic EBITDA adjustments (which are lagging materialization timelines signifciantly) you're lucky to be holding 8x clean leverage vs the 4-5x "pro forma".
At some point this is going to end badly.
reverse hockey stick shaped recession its too late for the v now
One of the best opinions I’ve read on the current situation.
There is no such thing as a V-shaped recession! It will be very bad.
Buy 0-5 year TIPS bonds because the current situation is unlike any other recession the Fed has ever seen.
Should I panic really? I don’t know what I would do with myself if this happened.
Panicking won’t change the outcome.
how do you know? ever hear of the butterfly effect? jk obv.
Nope. Panic does not solve problems.
I was supposed to study abroad and return right before my internship began, but was told not to go because the firm would likely mandate that I be quarantined, causing me to miss weeks of work.
GS Women's Leadership Camp was supposed to be next week. First it was moved to NJ away from NY employees, then cancelled.
The reaction to this seems like it will only get more severe. Can you even effectively do these internships remotely? It would make sense for firms to prioritize their current employees over their future ones, but this is pretty wild. Would we all just get returns? If the pipeline closes there will be no 1st year analysts come 2021.
I’m just an intern panicking, but everyone getting return offers would be amazing but it’s the last thing I think would happen instead of just focusing on the analysts they have currently? I’m really hoping someone can tell me I’m wrong and that returns just might be at 100%?
no way returns are 100, firms like gs know they will be giving out only a certain number of returns.
internships will not be cancelled.
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You can do internships remotely, but it will suck. But you can wear jeans and a t shirt while working, so it pretty much evens out.
Who in their right mind is wfh in jeans?
The regional analyst training camp at my MBB was cancelled.
Instead of a free trip to Europe people have to watch videos online lol
I believe the extreme case is forgoing the SA 2020 program and extending full time offers instead.
Haha that is comical if you think that would happen. Zero % chance banks would just give FT offers out without seeing how they would perform.
I think you are underestimating how easy it is for banks to re-up hiring once things blow over. Like in a year. Current groups will just have to make do with less (which may not be super difficult if deal activity plummets).
I expect summer analyst programs will be remote this year and the number of FT offers will decline dramatically.
I agree, zero percent chance that full times would just be handed out. Also I would caution everyone to remember what happened last summer. Firms like JP Morgan (where I received my full time) only handed out something like 50% offer rate to SA and even less to associates. That means the banks have already prepared for a recession or something close to it for this upcoming year (at least JP did-not sure how other banks prepared). I also suspect that for this years SA program, there were less offers to begin with, unless they will just have a very low yield. Good luck everyone!
Interns have no idea what they are doing, to have them work remote would be completely useless.
I'm a summer analyst at Citi - they have officially pushed summer analyst start dates back to July 6, they're paying us for the full 10 weeks, and have extended full time offers to those of us in NYC, Tokyo, London, Singapore, and Hong Kong.
Not to burst any bubbles, but there is no way they will just give out offers without the internship. There will be no shortage in analysts, given the number of Big 4 TAS (CF, FDD, and Valuations) applicants trying to break into banking. Which would a bank prefer: a kid straight out of college that has not proven they can handle themself or Big 4 applicant that has a year or two of applicable experience.
I am the ladder and I have already seen an uptick in responses from banks inquiring about interviews.
Oh everyone watch out...the Big 4 “ladder” is in the house
Safe to say this was an unpopular/inaccurate post. Could someone expand on the inaccuracies? I am curious if I am completely off on my thought pattern or if the unpopularity is stemming from stressed out future interns throwing MS?
I love how entitled Big 4 folks always are, the demographic of an investment bank runs circles around it - I’ve met plenty of people in both roles
Kids, I don't care if Berkeley says you can't come to class, you are expected to show up for your summer internships until we say otherwise. Yes, this might change but it's the most current, accurate information I can provide. Until then, don't panic.
True. But I think the concern is more about interns coming in and getting the more at-risk senior bankers sick. After all interns are always blowing their bank on big international trips right before their start dates.
As a VP...
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man us interns don't get any money before we start. I wish
Do you think there'd be a hiring freeze in places like GS? I'm about to get an offer from them and I'm shit worried
Yes if they have a brain
Dang you backed down and edited your comment after the MS...
My fraternity colleagues were triggered after I said "You're more likely to die from frat hazing" they informed me that fraternities no longer haze, and just have nice social interactions.
I stand by the point that summer interns and full time hires will be fine. We're also too far away to speculate.
That was not your original comment which got hit with multiple MS. LOL
Nope, my original comment said that there was a 99.999% chance summer interns would have to come to work. I don't think it's productive anymore to speculate either way.
I can guarantee that for my office, we will not rescind summer or FT offers. I can't say that's true across the street so I'll just shut up. My own personal experience doesn't have a bearing on what's going on globally and I am not a medical expert. I don't like the alarm being demonstrated around the internet but caution is never a bad idea.
Heh, well my company just said otherwise. Everybody working from home until further notice
Summer programs will not be cancelled unless the current situation seriously deteriorates. Focus on the aspects of life that you can control and your anxiety will subside. General advice for life.
How will this impact class of 2022?
Too soon. But maybe we will see in a couple of weeks - probably how Trump and Fed react.
If this does lead to GDP slowdown, and assuming internships still take place as planned, would full time offer rates drop significantly?
Bnp Paribas spring week has been canceled and rescheduled for next September. I don't know for summer programs.
Will this affect incoming FT class of 2020?
No
Yeah would love to hear some perspective on what this means for full-time if anyone has heard or knows anything. Seems from what I can tell is it hasn’t been much of a discussion and things will go on as normal for the FT analyst. Again, not sure though.
No impact on FT hiring or offers according to our BB HR.
Banks prepped for a recession like conditions last summer when they decreased offer rates significantly (JP did at least), meaning that there will be little impact on the class since its coming in smaller than usual- good planning on JPs part honestly- although it was brutal to see so many people not receive returns last summer...
I am calling you out for spreading wrong info. Return offers for summer associate at JPM last summer are over 80% across industrial, C&R, healthcare, FIg. Could you tell me which group has less than 50% offer rat?
If and when your summer gig gets cancelled because of the virus, summer internships will be the last of the things on your mind.
hearing a lot of classes being cancelled... stanford columbia princeton amherst uwashington
harvard just went online, too
Cornell, UVa canceled too
JPM just canceled its London spring week (my sister had an offer), not sure if they are gonna reschedule or what.
Dont you think that if they do cancel the internship, which i think is very unlikely, then they will just be a massive recruiting for FT from every bank ?
I don’t think SA will be cancelled (I do think universities nationwide will be closed in the meantime). If they somehow are cancelled and not even put online, I think most well-positioned banks would just extend FT offers to most SA with some extra training period.
Guys you do not realize how little value summer analysts provide. FT groups can handle all of the work without any intern help (literally do it the other 40 weeks of the year).
If things continue on this path (i.e. all universities canceling programs), banks will 100% follow suit and do remote internships.
Would FT offer rates be lower given these remote internships? Would it be due to economic conditions or just the fact that remote work cannot be evaluated as easily. I imagine interns would still be expected to be in NYC at least?
There is a case of Coronavirus confirmed at the Barclays NY headquarters and employees are still asked to come in which is unacceptable.
There was a thread just posted with more color on the situation "Barclays Blatant Disregard..."
I don't go to Manhattan anymore and I am not going until next year.
"There was a thread" == you started that thread
what about the placement process? This is nerve cracking...
I first thought a delay in the start date could be possible until I realize that we can’t predict the course of the virus anyway...
Summers might get cancelled and candidates will be offered (very) accelerated interviews/superdays for FT next year. My 2 cents.
Heard DB London has canceled some internships for certain position. I have no idea if this is true or not but can anyone confirm? Do they just hand out FT offer then?
You guys do know things are starting to look better in China, right?
I get things are different in the U.S. and I agree things will probably get a bit worse but I don’t think the world is ending here. Also not a doctor so more than easily could be wrong. I just think there’s a lot of panic that isn’t quite warranted yet.
Same. Although >100,000 cases globally sounds like world war Z, but in fact the proportion of active cases compared to total cases is to some extent much more optimistic. True that things have improved in China but the European countries have been knocked down one by one. Perhaps it’s all like taking turns - now US UK...
I would look at Italy instead of China, a country that hasn't been very transparent. So basically we'll know in about a month time
The reason it's starting to look better in China is cuz it's authoritarian government basically shut the entire country down. I don't think the same can happen in the US, especially with the lack of preparation of the US healthcare system and this administration.
I do think that’s a fair point and the U.S healthcare system has a huge risk of not having enough infrastructure to handle things should it get bad. But to your point about the authoritarian government, another country to look at is South Korea. They are democratic and they are starting to see large improvements as well.
I don’t say any of this to undermine the fact that things could get extremely bad in the U.S. I do agree this is a likely possibility. I more so say all of this because most people are completely losing it right now thinking the world is about to end. Things are looking better in a few other countries, so eventually, some way somehow I think they are going to look better for the U.S. also.
Or take a look at South Korea, they've slowed the outbreak really quickly without being as careless as Italy or as authoritarian as China.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I start b-school at CBS (so NYC) this August, and intend to recruit for IB. I've heard banks effectively start recruiting for their F'21 summer class in late-Sept. If this virus continues beyond these summer months, and firms don't even physically come to campus to recruit in fall, how will we possibly land SA positions?
Or am I being overly paranoid and shouldn't be thinking that far out this early lol? It's got me nervous though...
Too early to worry about 2021 SA.
I think they will let you know in timely manor. This’s everyone’s problem - so not just you.
Things should be more stabilized by that point. But honestly anything can happen. I have a SA offer from an BB in NYC and I’ve been worried for days. I don’t know if they will rescind the offer.
Damn, yeah I feel you - good luck with it man, hoping they don't actually rescind offers
I feel you. Can’t sleep.
I think cancelling SA 2020 will just be too wild and a big hit to recruiting (e.g. banks spent a lot of money on campus presentations and diversity days to recruit their interns) so a late start (maybe even August when things settle) might seem more reasonable given that many unis plan to start in September anyways
Maybe late start + shorter internship since we have school at the beginning of Sep?
Internships will be remote
The number of businesses that won't be able to service their debt because of this situation is going to be staggering.
2008 is going to look like a handful of bad mortgages compared to the damage this is going to do to the global economy. I have no idea what our world leaders are thinking, but unless this cold virus is the worst public health crisis since 1918, they are overreacting.
I don't know anyone that's sick, and I've been accused of not being the most empathetic individual, so I'm not going to sit here and act like I would make the right call here, but I feel like we don't have a true handle on the damage these shutdowns are going to cause. Universities? Whatever. Travel bans? Bad. School systems? People have to stay home, bad. Cancelled events of all kinds? Bad. Etc.
Add in energy company defaults and the US economy is going to crater because of this. The fed is out of ammo, and our government has no chance of keeping all of these companies and individuals above water.
It's a real possibility especially with all these recent cancellations of big organizations like professional sports and universities.
Frankfurt is completely cancelled, too. No travels for sales people. With a quarantine like this, it will be over by summer.
Hopefully things will get better by the summer. For now I can’t even speculate what would happen in the next three days....
bump
Hope all that quarantines will finish till May!
I hope so, if the situation won't get worse.
A couple of my buddies currently in co ops/ off cycle spring internships were told not to come in and they would be paid vacation hours. This is Toronto btw.
Was just given the choice to do the same, decided to stay in office
are they getting return full time offers ?
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S/O to everyone for the updates. Very much appreciated.
Seems like things are staying on track as normal. Could change but I’ll take this as a good sign for now
GS SF/NY confirmed start dates and has no plans to cancel SA 2020.
JPM sent a questionnaire to all interns asking: If they got corona virus, were in contact/ slash countries affected. If they are currently in location of their internship, if they plan on travelling before their internship begins.
While they are saying internship is taking place still, I feel If you answer yes to some of the question above, they will re-evaluate the risks...
Italy here: audit intern at Big4, working from home since february 24th
I just heard Citi put out a statement that 2020 summer internships are going to look much different this year - they are still evaluating what to do but assure everyone they will honor their internships it just might be a completely different platform
can confirm that I heard this as well, assured summer internship is still in place but may change the way it is (was vague but could mean remote or just switching dates around ? )
"A completely different platform" doesn't sound like just switch dates to me. Perhaps remote internship.
Just heard from a few buddies that Cornell has cancelled classes until April (not even online). Potentially people there will have to take another semester to graduate. MIT has gotten rid of grades this semester counting (S/U instead)
Cornell moved to all online classes after spring break like most of the ivies did and they waived the swim test requirement (realizing somer students might not have had a chance to complete it) ... so why wouldn't they be able to graduate?
It's not all online it's suspended until April most recent news I heard from few buddies who go there.
CS to incoming SAs: “ We are busy preparing for your arrival!
Part of our consideration for the program this year is the impact of the Coronavirus pandemic. Rest assured, the health and safety of our employees, clients and our community is our top priority. With that in mind, we are actively reviewing our program for 2020 to ensure an amazing internship experience at Credit Suisse. The situation remains fluid, so we will continue monitoring very closely and will provide you with updates in due course.”
Citi email to incoming FTs:
Is this NY?
Not just NY, regional offices as well.
my interview got postponed at a boutique
For full-time or for summer analyst?
JP just sent out an email reassuring incoming FT Analysts/Asso that offer still stands
you can only get coronavirus if you go to a non-target, so top banks will be fine, filled with Ivy League and Georgetown students
Heard from my MM today; they do not plan on changing anything with their SA program
Would you mind PMing me which MM? At a MM too but heard nothing.
I'd rather not name it but looking through your comment history it's 100% not yours.
would you mind PMing me which bank?
MM stated they aren't planning to change things at the moment, but things are fluid. We'll see.
Anyone hear anything from Barclays, MS?
MS sent out an email to all incoming interns that they are not planning on changing anything at this time. That's all that was said
Hope is not a strategy. From someone who saw everyone’s offer/job evaporate in 2008/2009 if I were an intern today, or a graduating senior with a job offer in hand, you should be proactively either fighting for your offer (politely checking in) or aggressively lining up backups. It’s the smart thing to do.
Until infection2020.com states otherwise, we are in for a world of pain, potentially reshaping entire industries (commercial real estate case in point). There are funds out there with dry powder that are going to need help sorting through the wreckage - go work for them.
I hope you're well. You remembered correctly - I was laid-off from Merrill Lynch (along with 95% of my fellow analysts) subsequent to the merger with Bank of America. I was out of work for 10 months as the fallout from the Financial Crisis settled.
To say it required an adjustment is a great understatement. I was technically living with my parents the entire time, though I had a girlfriend who lived on Wall Street, and I spent nearly all my waking hours at the office. Truly living with my parents was a bit of a different story (nothing bad, it's just that they'll always be your parents, and they'll act accordingly). Also, due to the stress and the late nights associated with the job, I had gained a substantial amount of weight. My first priority was to get my health in order. I would go to the gym first thing every morning, so that I would start each day energized and with a feeling of accomplishment. It's something over which I had near-total control, and I began to see results rapidly. I think that ultimately had the greatest positive effect on my outlook. I'd suggest you do the same, if you're not already doing so. Health is truly the foundation for everything.
I've recently started meditating for 15 minutes every day using the Headspace app. My mind tends to be all over the place, and I often have difficulty focusing. I've noticed a definite improvement in my concentration, and my anxiety levels have declined substantially. Check it out.
I guess this next part is the hardest to accept, and I don't mean to sound patronizing: shit happens. If I've learned anything in my 33 years, it's that I can't predict the future, but I can do my best to prepare for it. When the unexpected or undesirable occurs, I just accept it, and look for ways to move forward. There are often opportunities to be found. For instance, I hated my job at Barclays, but it provided a good living. I just never felt fulfilled. Ironically, the long, shitty hours I put in ended up contributing a broken engagement with my first fiancee. This freed me to meet my current fiancee, who is from Norway. She gave me the courage to resign from Barclays last May, and I moved to Norway shortly thereafter. I'm currently bartending, since I'm learning the language, and I think it's a good way to do so. I don't know what the future holds for me from a professional standpoint, but I'm excited to see what's in store.
I'd say to take this time to focus on yourself. It can actually be a positive experience. You have an awesome resume, and the right people in finance will notice.
Excuse these groggy ramblings - I just woke up.
Let me know if you need anything at all. Skyping might be beneficial. I find it's always more of a release to actually speak with someone.
Best,
.
So it would be a good idea to start emailing HR regarding my FT offer? I had thought it would be a good idea not to bother them amidst everything, as they probably don't know much themselves at this point. (Not IB though) Would appreciate any input
In the same boat. Bump
This guy is correct
Hey how come no one ever talks about BAML? Anyway last Friday BAML emailed stating that the internship will go as planned. They didn’t mention anything about the virus in fact. Maybe we shouldn’t overthink as well? These guys are not likely to rescind the offers, it could only be postponed at worst.
Hmm I didn’t get that one. Was that not the email saying their on boarding Platform wasn’t working?
Can confirm that BAML FT has no changes as of now.
I didn’t receive any mail about a broken platform. My internship is at London, I got a mail about resumption dates. Are you London as well?
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If you had asked me a few days ago, I would have said that it's all up in the air.
Now, I at least have one data point out of IL suggesting that the curve may be starting to bend. In Wuhan province, new cases peaked about 12 days after they locked everything down, and this is coinciding with the bend in the curve for IL and a couple other states today.
I'll have a bit more confidence with 3-4 more days of data. I am not an epidemiologist, but I can do stats, and I can say when something is statistically different from what we'd expect.
If IL and CA are aggressive, and the curve really is bending, there's a better than 50/50 chance that this gets wound up before the end of May. I need to review New York some more-- the situation is really bad there.
We'll know more in two weeks and we'll know a lot more by May 1st.
That said, if there is anyone out there with a web development background who wants some backup work-from-home work, let me know.
If NY is the only state where active number of cases aren't declining in May, do you think its possible that interns at regional offices (SF, LA, Chicago) will still be able to work in the office this summer, even if all of NYC is still WFH?
That will probably be a call for campus recruiting; not the rank and file or the middle-management people you'll be directly reporting to.
I'm sure the Chicago guys would be fine with it, but what message does that send, is it fair, yadda yadda yadda. (Irony of ironies if it was a problem in Chicago, NYC wouldn't care.
You're believing numbers from Wuhan. HAHAHA
I'm far removed from bank hiring programs... although this just came across my feed.
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