First Year PE Associates - How Have You Been?
I feel like I've been seeing a lot of first year PE associates post on this forum recently about their difficulties starting while WFH. Thought it would be a good idea to create a forum for all of us to share advice / vent / commiserate.
For context, I'm about 2 months into the job and definitely don't feel like the grass is greener on this side yet, but perhaps that'll come with time.
First year Associate here myself. Quite frankly ramping up while WFH sucks. Transitioning to PE is usually likened to drinking from a firehose your first couple months anyway, and WFH makes that even harder because the barrier to asking questions/seeing how things work is much higher remotely. It's also tough to feel integrated with the team when you've never met in person.
That said, I'm also about 2 months in and it's getting better each week. I'm starting to feel like I (at least somewhat) know what I'm doing on certain things, and have started to develop a rapport with the VPs I've worked with on multiple projects now. I think we're just going to have to grind it out recognizing the learning curve is made steeper by WFH, but knowing once we get up it we'll feel much better. I'd also recommend you gather your fellow first year Associates in your start class and grab a beer on the weekends to talk about it. Definitely helps to feel like others are going through the same thing.
I posted in another thread anonymously but I'll post here as well.
Not good. I am having trouble learning because of remote and because I am a former consultant.
I don't need any encouragement or tough love - there has been plenty on the other threads. I just want to get it off my chest one more time. Thanks for reading.
The responding in a timely manner thing is probably exacerbated by WFH for your VPs/managers too. They're quarterbacking multiple deals and it's harder to do so with everyone remote. I hope it's not like you're getting yelled at for not responding within 15-30min, but if longer than that I would get annoyed too, especially if you're making mistakes.
The frustrating part - and I think this is just a bad experience - is that I'm responding in 15-20 minutes with acknowledgement, but the berating is coming from not dropping what I'm doing to turn even minor items like formatting preference (e.g., not even errors) or other non-critical tasks. It would be one thing on a live deal but having to tell my wife I need to pause the movie for 20 minutes or not be able to finish the front 9 because I'm getting blown up is taxing.
I think your expectations were slightly askew due to the fact that you are transitioning from a consulting background rather than an IB one. None of these things will be new to former IB analysts, but it does go to show how much more "reasonable" expectations in consulting are, even at a very junior level, as well as how you are treated and viewed as the junior on a team (a resource [IB/PE] vs. a valued contributor and team member consulting). This isn't the first time I've read or heard these same gripes form former consultants turned PE associates - doesn't make it right or wrong, just want to highlight that and give you some perspective.
Hi - I'm an EM/PL/CTL equivalent at MBB and in the process of interviewing with a MF. The experience you describe touched upon a few of my concerns going into a MF PE role - would you mind if we had an exchange via DM/email? I would really appreciate hearing more. If yes, could you DM me, given you are anonymous?
FYI I'm in the last few stages of the process and the head of the group wants to interview me for a final fit session, focussing mainly on the fact that I am more mature compared to the other associates and they want to know how I will handle myself in that regard (have an advanced degree plus 5y consulting experience). They specifically headhunted for people with 4-5 years of experience and sector knowledge built up through advanced academic qualifications, rather than work experience (i.e. I have a STEM background), so they always knew they would get older candidates, but are just doing the extra diligence in hiring someone who might say 'Screw this - I'm out' after a year of the grind. This is especially likely if that person was a successful mid-level professional elsewhere. Like you I have a long-term partner/wife, but no kids (not planning to have them for at least another 3-5 years either) so that is somewhat beneficial if I'm expected to grind hard for the next 2-3 years (that said, I've also done my fair share of mind-numbing work over the past 4-5years, so would not be willing to do it for another 5+ years if that's what it took to be successful in this MF PE).
If possible - could the response be public for the benefit of everyone? I think the answer would be very helpful for me and others I'm sure
I wrote the above and I'll provide an update / self-reflection as I am almost done with my Associate program.
My tl;dr of this post would be, you need to find a team with good people. The rest follows but if you can look the person you're working for in the eye and think to yourself, I think there's a good person at heart underneath the busy VP veneer and I have some shred of belief they would care if what they were doing was making my life materially worse. I realized that for the first, well over a year, the answer was no - getting on another team was life changing.
The other thing I would say is that it's ok to ask for help. I was fairly depressed and having concerning thoughts since I was sleeping 5h/day and working on this incredibly toxic team. I wish I would have had the headspace to reach out to a mental health professional. I did not - I used one of those text-based therapists a couple of times and it was ok to vent but didn't really help. In hindsight, I should have made time for a therapist.
Now that I am good at the job and understand how it goes, I might consider staying in private equity. The jury is still out but once you get a feel for the job, you can start to manage expectations and carve a life for yourself outside of the cadence of dealflow. It's like swimming in the ocean - it's possible, you just need to know how to navigate the waves thoughtfully. If you think you can just swim wherever, whenever, you are going to get rocked.
Hey -- thanks for bumping this thread as it was definitely what I needed to read today. I'm about 8 months in to my 1st year and while I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it, am still feeling burned out and not really thinking I want to do two years (at least at my current firm). I recruited on-cycle 2 months into my banking role so really did not know what I wanted culture-wise, and unfortunately picked a prestige-focused shop where people grind and don't really have lives outside of work.
I was feeling really behind until I had a mid-year review that went a bit better than expected (said I was on-track and developing nicely), but still not really feeling great about my current situation and being 4+ months away from my bonus still seems very far away and daunting.
I guess my questions are:
Appreciate your note on mental health - recently started seeing a therapist and while it's been helpful in combatting the concerning thoughts and my ability to set more boundaries, I'm worried the next live deal I'm on will blast through any progress I make.
Can you elaborate a bit on the email response? I don't necessarily do everything as its emailed immediately, but usually would respond with a "Yes, will do" or "Sounds good, thanks" within 5-10 minutes as a way of acknowledging receipt.
Yeah, you gotta respond and say something to the effect of "will do, thank you". Don't leave it hanging otherwise your manager will think you just ignored it.
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Not a first year, but lateraled during COVID. It's been brutal versus my last role but I do think much of that is WFH related. There's no sense of being part of an organization, you just feel like a paid consultant getting requests dropped on you out of nowhere. Usually late summer is a great time with partners taking long vacations to places with limited cell service but obviously was not the case this year. Everyone is online 24/7 given nowhere to go and nothing better to do.
For what it's worth, the first few months of PE are usually rough - I thought I was severely under performing until my mid-year review. You're probably right where you should be in terms of development.
Make sure you take time for yourself at multiple points throughout the day - whether it's going on a jog/walk, watching a TV show, working out, etc. Easier said than done but there is always more work no matter how much you crank out - it can wait 20-30 minutes.
Yea good point. Only positive thing about WFH is how much easier it is to do chores / relax in between turns, although in my experience there's very little down time in PE compared to IB. If there's not work to be done, there's a call, and if there's not a call, it's consolidating notes, etc.
This job is data entry, I want to blow my brains out
What type of fund are you at where you're doing data entry like tasks. Definitely not the case in my experience.
Mid/Large Cap
Spreading comps, using a template model... it's just data entry.
Not an Associate but a first year PE analyst, and I’m straight up not having a good time lol.
Nobody seems to trust me with actual work, and I haven’t even touched a model in my first 2 months here. Best case scenario I’m doing some super high level diligence to maybe result in a bullet point or two on an Associate’s deck- most of the time though I’m just taking notes on shit and consolidating.
My firm (well-known MM shop) has been too lazy to train me properly so I just get ad-hoc formatting work every once in a while. I’m seriously considering saying fuck it and just starting over at a bank or consulting firm - this industry is too disorganized to properly deal with personnel challenges during covid.
Relax, you're 2 months out of undergrad. You wouldn't be doing anything meaningful at any job at any established firm. You're being trained to know how to function as part of the workforce and that's about it. Until you've proven you do you won't be doing much at all anywhere - hard pill to swallow but better get through it with a (fake) smile as it'll be quicker
No one in banking will trust you with a model two months into the job either.
One thing I keep thinking about is why I'm doing this? When I was in banking I told myself that PE would be more intellectually rewarding and more interesting than sell-side work. While I think this is potentially true at the senior level, I've realized that at most firms the size of mine, I will be running underwriting sensitivities and putting together slides 70+ hours per week into my mid 30s and I just don't know if that's the life I want to live for the next 10 years. So I've realized a really important reason I'm doing this is for the money. I'm making 300k my first year, but it doesn't feel like all that much because I turned down an associate role at my bank where I made 175k+ as a second year analyst. I'm frustrated that there isn't more transparency about comp beyond entry level associate roles.. anyone else feel similarly? I mean I'm literally working in PE and I quite honestly have no idea how carried interest works at my fund but also in general...
This is a very scary realization... seeing 35 year olds who aren't partners yet scrambling to edit powerpoint decks on a weekend while their families are waiting on them really makes you question if this is worthwhile..
I can't escape this thought either and it makes me wonder, why not just get out now and so something intellectually stimulating where the money might not be as good, but is still pretty good, eg., MBB, unbanked venture/growth equity.
There's a pretty good level of information on carried interest in general on the forum, enough to understand how it works in theory, but I think you might be SOL for understanding it at your fund until you develop enough rapport / balls to ask a VP.
Where did you hear that MBB is more stimulating than PE?
I came from consulting and it was very intellectually stimulating
Is the work at MBB that much more stimulating at the associate level than in PE? I was under assumption that a lot of the junior work in consulting is also similar such as creating slides and charts/graphs
Third year PE associate here. Below are some thoughts on the various topics in this thread:
1. Training/mistakes - this is the unfortunate reality but first year sucks WFH or non-WFH. Probably exacerbate due to WFH...but to be truthful, first year learning curve is steep and takes some time. PE execution is the same as banking execution—all about the reps (not the most efficient way to learn but it’s just what finance is)
2. Emails/formatting - there’s definitely an unreasonable expectation (across IB and PE) that you respond quickly to emails and that you turn formatting comments as VP/senior person wants. But if you are getting berated / not being asked to these things nicely, leave that shit place. But fair warning, bulk of PE firms have shit culture.
3. Does it get better over time? Yes, just like IB/consulting, your learning curve will flatten out so your second year will be better. But the difference in PE is that it’s a step-function after each level. Whereas in banking, I felt like I could do associate/VP job without much more effort, PE senior associate/VP job is a whole new level of ownership. You will feel this during your third year and get an understanding of why mid level PE people grind (and have uncontrollable tempers at shit culture firms—the stress is immense). Also in some ways it does not get better. Once you get good at execution, you now have capacity to think and people expect more of you/independent thoughts (vs in banking, it’s just execution without much thinking until VP when at least you are expected to come up with a draft pitch book.
4. Is PE the promised land? As many of you are realizing now, it is not. It is an absolutely the most risk adverse way to make a buttload of money (unlike IB, PE is extremely stable especially at established firms). The price of risk aversion is the grind. As you think about next steps/b school/career, think hard and long about where you sit in that risk/return spectrum. PE is at the extreme end of low risk and high return, and over the last 3 years I’ve realized that I don’t belong in that end. I’ve also realized I’m not the most risk loving person, so be measured / self aware in your career alternatives/timing.
Lastly, as a word of encouragement, there is some light at the end of the tunnel when new first years join next summer. It will be a while but grind on/get paid/save up. At the end of the two years, I’ve realized I’ve grown a lot as a person and as a professional. For some people everything clicks early, but at least for me personally, PE was very helpful in me learning to operate on my own, develop a healthy level of self respect amongst not only my peers but also seniors/executives (i.e. they are not as godly as you think and you are not as stupid as you might believe), as well as accumulating good level of savings to the point where I can be more bold in my career/myself
This is immensely helpful advice. Just curious, what you are planning to do after your PE stint?
Still TBD but thinking about joining a (smaller end) portco to do corp dev/finance. Goal is to transition to a role where I can still leverage my skillset (e.g., M&A) in an industry that I want to pursue (software with B2C/B2B/marketplace components) so that (1) I can continue my career path towards something exciting like a PE backed CFO or a search fund in software (2) to have a sustainable lifestyle job where I can dedicate a good chunk of my time on side/entrepreneurial endeavors and be ready to commit to it if something sticks.
How is PE more stable than IB if you do not mind me asking?
In PE, it seems the funnel is a LOT more narrow at the top. Few associates, even fewer VPs, even fewer partners etc. so chrun is very high. Whereas in IB, especially at the BBs there seems to be more room for new MDs. Furthermore, while PE is based on performance, large banks generally have quite a bit of recurring revenue from equity/debt deals which makes them pretty strong through the cycle. I do understand PE is locked up long term money so is def more risk averse than HF. Finally, even though this is changing, most funds are still 2 years and out in which you have to re-recruit and potentially pay for B-School.
I found your post very insightful and really appreciate the contribution. Just a second year IB analyst who is honestly kinda enjoying the job and seeing the merits of whether or not to try to make the jump to PE.
Ah I should have clarified. I meant it's a stable seat AFTER you get on career track (i.e., senior associate / VP). Agreed it's much less stable as associate 2 years and out program.
I think you're correct that banks are relatively stable but 2008 - 2012 crisis proved IB seats are exposed during down cycles. COVID somewhat changed my perspective on that a little bit in that main street performance = / = wall street performance. This was mainly driven by the Fed supporting the financial markets (unlike the mortgage crisis). TBD if the Fed sustained economy will pull through and prove that IB seats are as stable as this cycle seems to suggest.
This thread is the most perfect thread to read for anyone who's working in IB and is with a great group that you get along with and have good rapport with and think that PE is some amazing paradise where all your troubles will go away. Be very careful before stepping away from a good role that you enjoy, they don't come by often..
1st year associate that came in from banking in January and have been work from home for the large majority of my stint thus far.
Honestly, I don't feel as though I'm making much progress on the learning curve and it's starting to severely worry me. I left banking in hopes for better hours and less stress, but both have only become worse in my experience. I don't feel as though I am adding much value to the deals that I work on and, quite frankly, feel like a hindrance to the effort. I make frequent mistakes (stupid formatting and conceptual mistakes) and feel quite lost a fair amount of the time when I am asked to do something. While I have quickly become quite jaded by the experience, I am starting to worry that if I keep this up I'm going to get fired.
I don't know if this is more of a ramble or me asking for advice, but clearly this firm is not the right fit for me (and I think they have realized the same). I have no idea what my options are, but I constantly, constantly think about quitting the job. I have never felt so low in my career and my self esteem. If work isn't keeping me awake, the stress of the job and my performance is keeping me awake. My mental health really can't manage this much further. Has anyone known an associate that has totally flailed at the role? What are my options even? Maybe PE isn't for me, but if I keep this up and get fired (is that even a likely outcome?) what will my options be then?
I'm feeling somewhat similarly - if you want to chat, shoot me a PM. I can share my game plan with you.
Only anecdotal but I used to work at a PE shop and one of the associates I had worked with had VP offers to return back to IB
How hard is it to go back to banking after your associate years? I feel like I probably won't be promoted and would love to rejoin my banking coverage group as a VP? Is this possible? Would I have to come back as an associate? Do you think I'd have trouble recruiting? For reference, I was working for a good BB and am now at a MF.
I’d think you’d have to come back as a mid level associate assuming this is post 2 years pre MBA PE associate. To be honest I don’t think you’d really want to rejoin immediately at the VP level as you’ll want time to readjust to banking rather than getting compared to the people who stuck it out in banking and have strong momentum
Just curious (since I'm in a similar boat where PE isn't shaping up to be the promised land), what kind of firm did you join? Trying to see if this issue is endemic to MF / UMM PE or perhaps just a general issue with PE shops across the board.
I'm at a big fund.. in a sector specific group with a latest raise of 5bn+ for my group/sector.
Mind if I PM you? In a similar spot (ignore the anon title- thanks!)
As a third year associate (soon to be senior associate), I'd add that like banking, PE is an apprenticeship job where most of the learning is done by observing / getting reps, typically with the help of more senior folk and the other more tenured associates. That said, everyone knows WFH blows from a learning perspective and there's more forgiveness for dumb mistakes and slower learning simply by nature of the fact that you aren't getting the benefit of being in the office and asking stupid questions in person (and remote working is terrible for this). For what it's worth, I felt really behind for the first 1-1.5 years on the job but you definitely build confidence and get better over time and with experience.
I am happy to see this thread. Six months in, I don't like it. Mega fund PE is not for me.
What is the right job for me?
I am thinking this leaves me with growth equity, late stage venture, or Middle Market technology (if I can huck it out to VP and go to someplace like Marlin or FP). From here, it is difficult to know until doing the job. Thoughts?
I think those UMM places you mentioned also pretty heavy grinds tbh.
Good to know... thanks.
Marlin is Grindy? Aren’t they chillin in Hermosa Beach?
Why are you only focused on modeling? Do the associates at your fund not focus on the CDD work - I've done quite a lot of this. Also have you been given a portfolio company to cover? Then you'll be more involved with strategy and management etc - or is that not the type of portco work you receive?
BTW as a minority owner in growth equity (and youre fundamentally still an investor ,not operator), I've heard you actually dont get involved as much with portcos - at least at the large shops. The firms leverage the usual PE fund network resources but you dont have the power to make executive conditions without ownership and often inbed with multiple other investors at the same time. Have you heard otherwise?
When you say broader mandate, do you think any of the other investing positions (MM, GE, late stage venture) will be broader in size - surely they all tend to focus on a specific size range - or is it you want to look at more companies?
Finally, do you not think there are any large caps / MFs that focus less on transaction structuring and have industry teams that overlap with your interests? Bain Cap, Apax etc, come to mind. Why wouldn't you consider these(beyond lifestyle)?
I don't think Bain Cap has industry teams, do you? I thought they were generalist. Interesting point about Apax though, point taken. Do they recruit on a fund by fund basis or do you recruit and then just get plopped in? New to thinking about lateral moves...
Remember, money never sleeps...
First year associate here. Started in January and facing quite a steep learning curve myself. Have been making some silly formatting mistakes and the VP had to step in the master deck a couple times. Getting worried. How easy or often do associates get fired in this job? I'm at a UMM fund that has been growing like 2x in headcount every 3 years or so....
Having been on the job for some time, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone also has little nits that might be very specific to them and it’s not necessarily you doing something wrong. Even as I progress to the VP leave, half of the job is showing up with a positive attitude and driving processes forward. I’ve never heard of someone getting fired for not being good enough at the job. If anything, they let you do your 2 years and not give you the poromotion.
That was me first 3-6 months in the job and had huge imposter syndrome. Keep your head up and as the above commenter said good attitude and drive goes a long way.
The job starts slowing down 6-9 months in so don't beat yourself over it. The worst part is when you lose confidence and that can cascade into a downward spiral.
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