Only able to date down in IB/NYC?

Saw a troll post about the lack of attractive women in high finance / prestigious background and honestly, it made me think a little. No it’s not so I can hu with my female coworkers but it’s definitely made me have a realization, as someone who does not want to date downwards.
 

Im a dude who went to an ivy and currently work in a highly desired bank in a top group. I also think I’m pretty attractive- I’m fit and can honestly say I strike comfortably above average. It’s always been my aspiration to have my partner be my equal. This has always been my “type”; im into women generally who I view “on my level” in terms of looks, occupation, background. I don’t think this is an unreasonable or unfair expectation to have. 
 

Yet, all of my friends in coveted IB seats who also attractive men by society, are all dating downwards in my view. Not in terms of looks or personality- their gfs are very pretty and are great girls. Yet they’re all chicks working in corp dev/sales/public relations/education etc… absolutely nothing wrong with it, but clearly much lower stakes type of jobs. I’ve noticed this generally in nyc— where it’s like “hot banker bf & hot HR gf” And it makes me think, what gives? Based on my own experience, I’ve seen that I’ve had access to many very beautiful women who are working more lifestyle jobs. While fun for nothing serious, at my core I know I want an equally attractive woman with the same ambition/drive and accomplishments as me. I’ve had a few situationships I’ve ended for this reason only. I genuinely find a woman who is able to offer as much as I to be the epitome of sexy. I’m not saying this to infer such women lack passion or are lesser, but rather point to how hard it is to find women who I align myself with in all ways.
 

Maybe it’s because I grew up in an area where power couples were truly & genuinely a norm (like attractive finance husband & attractive doctor wife; northeast lol). Maybe is due to my own upbringing, where my dad is a real estate investor and my mother a lawyer; both came from nothing and worked their way up… but I can’t help but feel like I’m settling if my partner is indeed hot but works as a secretary. Nearly all of my male friends who live with their gfs pay the lion share of rent and cover expenses—which again, is totally ok— but to me gives me a sense of out-dated gender dynamics due to the fact that they are not wholly equals. 
 

Anyone else feel the same way? 

 
Most Helpful

Don't care if my GF/wife is on-track to be a partner at McKinsey...I want her to be mature, loyal, hot, but most importantly, a good mother. I can't imagine basing my relationship on whether she pays 50% of the rent LOL I get your point that you do not want dead weight, but although it is outdated, men and women complement each other - for example, I would shoot to find an attractive nurse (good job, smart, likely in good shape, nothing to do with finance, real life skills (not powerpoint) etc.) 

 

On the point of going 1/2 on rent— I’m not giving any grievances against less than equal finances. That point was illustrative of the disparity that tends to exist between partners.
Think my point lies in the fact I *personally* feel that attractiveness is not >>>>>> career. I agree that for most men it is, but im wondering if any tend to feel the same way as I.

agreed that I would want my woman to be a good mother; I have the same expectation that I will be a good father. Obv once children come in, there’s sacrifices to be made on both ends. I want a wife/mother/partner, not a maid or caretaker. 
I think there’s no shortage of hot women working comfy jobs …but for me to truly, truly love a woman, there needs to be a sense of acknowledgement in knowing that she doesn’t need me more than I need her & we are both equally impressive & equally inspire each other. Like how they say you are a close product of your five closest friends, thus choose wisely; wouldn’t you apply similar thinking to your woman? Idk, I guess I view “high value” women in the same lenses that women view “high value men” lol

 

…but for me to truly, truly love a woman, there needs to be a sense of acknowledgement in knowing that she doesn't need me more than I need her 

Doesn't really makes sense to me, why wouldn't you want your woman to truly need and depend on you? If you're in a depolarized relationship where neither of you need each other, then what's the point? Feel like men receive purpose in their life knowing that their woman and children depend on their hard work.

If you're a man making decent money, the motherly qualities are more important than her LinkedIn profile. When you have 3 kids, do you really want a wife working until 11pm or raising your family instead?

 

I've seen a few examples of that.

Where the woman stays in finance / law / some other high powered job, they don't have kids till their late 30s, usually only because the husband is practically crying for one by then (I've seen one funny example where all the directors at a company event were trying to persuade one dude's very high powered wife - she outranked all of them - to finally have a baby. "He'll look after the kid! You can go straight back to work!")

Where the woman drops out, always because of kids, she f*cking resents her husband. Every. Single. Time. Especially when she has female friends who stayed and achieved amazing careers.

You can't really go from career woman to trophy wife that easily. I've briefly hung out with very very wealthy women / girls, whose main aspirations were to go from rich man's daughter to rich man's wife. They're not dumb - they'd outmaneuver you in a second - but they're on a completely different wavelength.

The only wealthy women I could ever click with are those who actually worked as well - even if in only their dad's company, where they usually had a high degree of responsibility

 

There are just less women going hard in IB etc that you would consider attractive so the selection pool is smaller. If we’re being honest most men will choose looks over career in a woman. Trust me if you value career that much you can cuff up a girl killing it at a megafund but she’s not gonna look like an equinox trust fund HR chick

 

Feel you, would prefer my partner to be well educated and a high achiever. I usually date women with elite careers and it works well for me. It’s difficult to align schedules but they’re able to understand the lifestyle. Girls with normal jobs are able to be more flexible and attentive. I just find high achieving women more attractive, and they usually have real interest vs. the girl in Ops that lives on TikTok.

 

You realize people working these "lifestyle jobs" - as you refer to them - can still be ambitious, driven and passionate about their work, right? If you're looking for someone who's also in IB and makes as much as you do, fine. But it seems you’re currently making a pretty big extrapolation.

 

You can date whatever you want. It's just a matter of how much effort and time you want to put in to find what you're looking for. 

It's harder for women as they have a biological clock. As a guy, you can wait it out until you find what you are looking for. 

No hard and fast rules. 

But like anything in life, there's always some give and take. You should know where your stand and what you can offer. Anything unbalanced always backfires. 

 

You should know where your stand and what you can offer. Anything unbalanced always backfires. 

Yes, case in point 

 

This sounds as though you are saying that it's the woman's job to be the full time parent? Aren't we in 2023?

If you want to stick with your argument, maybe the high-achieving women working the "most difficult" jobs are not attracted to other people working those jobs. I know a lovely female partner at a BB whose husband is a stay at home father.

 

You may need to choose looks or profession. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but typically beautiful women are not as ambitious or in pursuit of professional careers. That drive of competition, grit, and ego is more of a masculine trait. Not saying they don’t exist.

Use LinkedIn - slide into their IGs.

Also, this was super pretentious. You defined dating downwards based on women’s professional status in their 20s. You’re a moron. Date someone you get along with and are attracted to

 

Yeah. I would say earning $200k, having a good career trajectory, being in decent shape, and still having decent fun on the weekends at age 23-25 puts you ahead of most Gen Z & younger millennials. I have some friends who have jobs in more in line with the median who seem to have more fun but are overall very anxious about finances. 

It's not like most people this age are supermodels living lavish lives with low hours. 

 

WSO tends to lean fairly conservative, so I think it's going to be hard for people here to agree with you. Seems like they're a big believer in "it's the woman's role to stay at home and raise the kids, and the man's role to be the provider of the family"

I'm also very similar to you, it seems, and find a girl's education and job a huge determinant in my attraction to her. Is it fair? Maybe not.

But we're all allowed to have our preferences on who we want to date; it just means we might have to wait a bit longer to find that girl compared to the rest of our peers

 

To add onto this, I feel like what you're looking for in a partner is largely influenced by your parents / upbringing. If you have one parent stay at home and you turned out pretty well, then you think "wow everyone should have one parent stay at home to raise the child cause look how I turned out"

And if you're like us and had both parents work full-time and raise the child together, then you think "wow both parents should work full-time and share the burden of raising the child cause look how I turned out"

Also idk about you but my mom would kill me if I didn’t date a girl with a good job and good college pedigree. Know it sounds toxic but she’s Asian and has a PHD so how am I gonna convince her otherwise haha

 

Most of my friends and I date women who are younger than us. Younger often means less established from a career point of view. Often times we can't see what potential our partners have because they are just 21-25 years old. Hard to be a doctor or law professor at that point. In fact, when I met my gf, she lived with her parents and was just about to enroll at college.

 

we don't have a choice. women our own age or even older won't care about us. we tried.

I completely agree that women mature at different rates than men, due to a variety of reasons. same age dating might have worked a long time ago, but nowadays it is quite difficult.

 

Hey man, thanks for sharing. I don’t mean this in a judgemental way at all, but may I ask why you tend to date younger? I know this is a pretty common thing and at face value I can see the appeal. However I’m definitely speaking from an honest and long term view - I think if I would to date a young naive 20 something as a 30/40 y/o, it’d be hard for me to genuinely feel that I love her. Factors that make this so is that 1. There is no shortage of young beautiful women, so what’s the stickiness factor with one of many 2. Soon enough I feel there’ll be a realization of the power dynamics here - where I feel that she “loves” me for what I provide (which is not unique- there’s plenty of good looking wealthy older men), and I “love” her for  having youth I’m trying to cling for (which never lasts, for anyone). Makes me question if I genuinely love her / if she genuinely loves me, and if this is all conditional. Also, at this point, what do you even have in common with her, a girl who is just starting college?…

Seems like dicarpio type of situation that in my view, is largely unproductive for anything but a playboy lifestyle 

 

I date younger since I find girls in their 20s more attractive. What do we have in common? We both enjoy sex.

Seems like dicarpio type of situation that in my view, is largely unproductive for anything but a playboy lifestyle 

Fair enough if that's not your thing, but that is indeed what I am going for. I don't expect you to agree with me, fine if you don't, but you did ask the question so that's my answer.

 

Please tell me this is some kind of bizarre satire or troll

I know some couples meet in finance, good for them, but I don't want my wife/gf as stressed out as I am. I think some of you have been so enculturated through business school and finance culture that these are the only girls you even know about. If OP is serious, which I hope he isn't, you guys need to go out and travel a bit...touch grass or something

 

"Attractive finance husband" as a stereotype is odd-sounding.  "Attractive doctor wife" even more so.  And the idea of these two coming together so frequently that there's a town where this is "genuinely a norm" . . yeah I either want the name of the town or the name of the drug fueling the post.  

 

Not OP but think this is a lot more common with Asian / Indian households.

Also, the double doctor power couple went pretty hard too

underrated comment. all my indian / asian friends have rich parents, went to decent colleges and/or have baller careers. guy and girl. I hear jewish people are similar although I don't have a lot of examples personally  

 

Agree with what everyone said above. I'd say there are a lot of layers going on here though:

1. As they say in football, you are what your record is. Kind of like dating, you date at your "level". You might be a good looking banker with no personality, so you get girls who only care about looks and money. "Looks, occupation, background" are good places to start, but ask yourself, between two equally attractive woman, would you want to date a lawyer who treats you like shit, or an HR girl who absolutely adores you?  Or, dunno if you're too young for this, would you date a teacher who wants kids or a doctor lady who doesn't? Or you might date a doctor lady who goes to the Jersey shore every weekend with here family but you're a hamptons guy? Its give and trade, just because you think you have a product that sells doesn't mean people will buy it. 

2. I'm not a girl/woman/lady, but I'd say being one takes a lot of work. As a guy, you have to think about way less more stuff on the daily, less time to get ready for work, all of that. I think that's why a lot of woman never get to that IB/high tech level, because they are focused on things outside of their career. So its a tough ask. 

3. Most woman want to date up; therefore most men end up "dating down" if you will. 

4. Hate to say it and not to hate, but there are some woman out there who just basically want to marry rich and be a housewife. Nothing wrong with that, but they usually don't want to tell society/people. I know chicks who have gone to college or law school who basically wasted several $100ks of dollars because now they are stay at home moms. They never really started a career, not that its wrong if thats what people want. (side note: I think its mainly because people pat your back up until you have to start working, then no one cares.) 

 

ironman32

3. Most woman want to date up; therefore most men end up "dating down" if you will. 

Women can generally get away with dating down if the guy has a "good personality." He can look like an absolute dog, but if he is a "good guy" the women's' friends will generally accept him. When a guy tells another guy he just started dating a girl, the first question is usually "is she hot?" Guys can't use the "well she has a good personality" excuse like women can.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

Its just the little stuff that adds up. Just think, clothes, makeup, hair, how they physically present (do I look fat? is this work appropriate?) woman on average probably put in way more time than men on that. Probably equals less sleep, leading to less productivity. True men probably more than ever think about that stuff too but not the same magnitude as women. Even if on average women spend ~30 mins a day on that (going to bed and getting ready), that's 2.5 hours a week, 10 a month, 120 a year, basically what "equals" 3 weeks of vacation. 

I'm not trying to ride hard for women, because men have problems too its just in different ways. (with men I'd say its more difficult because in some sense you can't fix men's physical appearance too much, i.e. height). Just back to the OP's post of basically "why can't a find women who are hot AND smart/work a good job", because its hard to do both. 

 

HR needs to start mandating IB juniors to watch rom coms fr

You want to know why you can’t “bag” a smoking hot VP at BX? Your attitude is insufferable.

Can you give me a reason as to why a woman would genuinely want to be with you that isn’t some external achievement or element of “prestige”?

You need to learn how to actually love a person rather than simply love the idea of them.

Maybe I’m naive and actually believe in love, but you’ll know it when you see it and it has everything to do with who the person actually is — not with what the person has done that’s valued by a bankrupt society.

Stop thinking about what you want out of a girl and start thinking about what they might want out of you.

 

My two cents here as a guy in his early 30s with moderate/above average dating success - OP respectfully, you either are being unrealistic and/or are limiting your dating pool too much.

Basically dating is a romantic "marketplace" if you like - I'm not saying it's transactional by any means, but equally each guy or girl seeks out the "best" person they can get (by that I mean the person with the most qualities they find desirable). I.e. a Victoria's Secret model is not going to be impressed by you being in IB (far from it), and equally you yourself would be very unlikely to date an overweight mom of four kids on welfare.

So you have a good job, some money, and are good-looking - in other words lots going for you. However your target requirements are eliminating most of the dating pool! You only want a girl who is attractive, great personality and works a very high-powered job. Ok so firstly that's a very small proportion of the female population, so your dating odds have already gone down a lot.

Well, you might say, by being in IB I'm also an "elite specimen" (not that you are really) so shouldn't those high-powered professional gorgeous girls all go for me? Well no. Firstly think about the qualities you've listed - you work in IB so have money and an impressive job, but a high-powered professional girl already has that for herself, so is likely not that impressed with it. So one of the main attributes you cite has been knocked out. Secondly, you say you're good-looking right? Well girls tend to get hit on by tons of guys - so no offence but she's probably chatting to guys a lot more attractive than you (male model looks etc) online or in person.

So with that being said, means you effectively are going after a very small slice of women without a huge amount going for you relatively-speaking. You're assuming that high-powered girls will fall at your feet with you being in IB, but in reality they're just as likely to want a guy with male model looks who is a creative type/works in a job that has nothing to do with law or finance. And given they already have high-paying jobs they won't be that impressed you work in IB, in the same way a nurse might be if you take her out to fancy restaurants etc.

Note I'm not saying you can't get a high-powered career girl - but you may have to compromise somewhere. E.g. I'm sure there are plenty of more "homely" future McKinsey/law partners who would be much easier to date, but I get the impression you want a girl on partner track who is also stunning/gorgeous. Problem is they have tons of options, and you probably don't rank that high up on their list (plus most importantly there aren't that many of them around in the dating marketplace!)

Having said that, I do somewhat get your point about wanting to be with a girl who is your "equal" - just for me that doesn't have to mean career success necessarily. I know though some guys feel the same as you - look at many billionaires who are married to women who may be average/above average in terms of looks but very successfully professionally, when realistically with their wealth they could have married 10/10 models (even if they were braindead). Now that is likely because they think those women make a much better long-term partner than some stunner who is an Instagram model (personally I definitely see the wisdom in that approach). But what do you value more personally? Because unless you're a 10/10 in every respect your approach seems a bit unrealistic - as I said, being a good-looking guy in IB isn't that helpful when you're going after such a tiny slice of the dating pool.

 
falconeagle

? Because unless you're a 10/10 in every respect your approach seems a bit unrealistic - as I said, being a good-looking guy in IB isn't that helpful when you're going after such a tiny slice of the dating pool.

Yeah, I mean it's pretty amusing that he's upset that the .01% of the human dating pool isn't falling over themselves to be with him, when he's not exactly that kind of material himself.  He pretty clearly ties up a lot of his identity in his job, which is going to be a turn off for a lot of people in the first place.  And even within that, it seems highly unlikely that he's in such high demand - he's probably a junior or mid-level banker, which isn't particularly impressive.  He's looking for someone with the looks of a Victoria's Secret model, the earning power of a female version of himself, the intelligence of a rocket scientist... if that person does exist, they're not dating him!

Besides, and this isn't in argument with your post but as a corollary, once you get to a certain point in any category, your marginal returns go down (so to speak).  Assuming you make enough money, who cares if your potential partner makes $200,000 or $2,000,000?  Either way that's a very career driven and high earning person.  Who cares if they're an 8 or a 9 in terms of looks?  That's still gorgeous by any definition, and looks will fade.  Who cares if they can't discuss the recent policy decisions of the Fed?  Maybe they're interested in Cubist art - one of those isn't better than the other, and interests/"smarts" aren't that easy to define.  Someone intellectually curious is worth talking to, even if they aren't curious about exactly the same things.

And as you say, OP 100% does not seem like the cream of the dating pool.  He seems like someone who is on the lower rung of the earnings ladder, who is not ugly (but also not exactly a model) and has very few outside interests... exactly the kind of person he doesn't want to date.

 

You’re dead wrong about almost all of this. Attractive career women are very hard to find (except top mba programs). Otherwise they are very gettable bc most dudes don’t value them appropriately

 

You're saying that high-powered career girls would aim higher than a good looking guy in IB. Who would you identify as a higher value than a good looking guy who works in IB, is funny, has a personality ? Assuming that she's not into sugar daddies (which I don't think a smart girl would be).

Except if you're talking about young dudes who made millions on Internet like Iman Gadzhi and others ? That is also a very small pool of dudes.

 

have you never heard of generational wealth?

I'm not even an insta model but I've always been fairly conventionally attractive and since graduating (target, then mostly working in wall street firms) I've never even made male friends with someone on the same financial / career "level" - aka an IBD / PE / HF dude.

All my current male friends / acquaintances were men who invited me to join their friends circles (zero proactiveness on my part required) and their families are ridiculously wealthy. I've turned down a few of them romantically over the years because like OP, I'm also incredibly picky, but unlike OP, I'm well aware that it means I might have to end up single, but I'm perfectly fine with that.

Like someone else mentioned, I already have the career and the money on my own. I have a friends circle that I can chill and spend money on expensive things (or often get treated to actually), that isn't obsessed with "finance prestige" or any form of "prestige" and are so much more chill and realistic about life.

It may amaze some people here, but very wealthy people don't necessarily want to talk business or markets when they hang out. We crack the stupidest jokes and take the mickey out of each other which is 100% how I want it after working this sort of jobs

 

I don't give a fuck what my wife's career is. I'm looking for a mother to my kids, not a fellow hardo. My parents were broke as hell and lived off coupons they stole from phone books. Both great people even if they have their flaws.

Also humble yourself. And have you ever gone out w a model? I had a thing w an insta thot for a while and she had a 4.0 and rich but was insufferable. I got stressed out from going out with her because it was all taking pictures for instagram and the snap story and I always had to dress up and she was just not a nice person. Granted we both drank way too much and while people told us we looked great together I hated it. She’s a 10/10 and sometimes when I’m horny I’m like I should text her but it’s not worth it. She’s dating a CCP official’s son who drives a mclaren now

 

I'd comment on a few things:

- I've seen both. I know plenty of couples who started dating or met at work (same job), or business school, etc.

- As an analyst, there are still a lot of women with "high paying job" potential but not there now. You want to date a doctor? Well it's 6 more years of school and residency. Lawyer? 3 more years of law school, etc. An executive COO? That starts in the middle office ops

- Someone else said it, but dating someone "on your level" doing the same thing, you are no longer providing something they don't have. (apologies for the cliche) It's why you see a lot of "high powered" men with artsy girls - they bring something totally different to their lives.

- I'm with someone who does the exact same thing. In some ways it is is awesome - they understand what I do, we can ask for advice, the venting gets to the crux of the issue, etc. But there's the other side - it is monotonous, you're constantly talking about work, and venting that much isn't healthy. It's good to hear about something completely random

- Competing with your girlfriend on bigger bonuses and faster promotions is not fun

- Time management - think about how hard it is for a "normy" to date you - constantly cancelling, unavailable most of the time, traveling, etc. Now try having two of those in a relationship. Now add in try having a family and doing that. Talk to your parents about it - I wonder how easy or hard it was for them

 
Analyst 2 in IB-M&A

Saw a troll post about the lack of attractive women in high finance / prestigious background and honestly, it made me think a little. No it's not so I can hu with my female coworkers but it's definitely made me have a realization, as someone who does not want to date downwards.
 

Im a dude who went to an ivy and currently work in a highly desired bank in a top group. I also think I'm pretty attractive- I'm fit and can honestly say I strike comfortably above average. It's always been my aspiration to have my partner be my equal. This has always been my "type"; im into women generally who I view "on my level" in terms of looks, occupation, background. I don't think this is an unreasonable or unfair expectation to have. 
 

Anyone else feel the same way? 

Your a young guy who works in a "prestigious" but not particularly successful role.  You're shooting for someone who is probably in the 1% of eligible women.  Why are they choosing you?  Your entire post assumes that you are the male equivalent of the woman you're looking for, and that isn't necessarily true.

In other words, taking your sense of entitlement out of the equation, why are you a more desirable partner than someone five years ahead of you on the success ladder?  Women date up in terms of age all the time, so the woman you're theoretically pursuing has a lot more options that you do.  Do you have any other interests which might recommend you to a partner?  Why are you assuming a finance role is the most coveted?  Perhaps the woman working in banking is way more career driven than her peers, and thus is less likely to spend her time and energy on you (or anyone else) than her peers in HR.

TL;DR - you want a woman "on your level" and you think that is "fair" but the one doing the judging of what level you're on is... you!  Hardly an unbiased source!  Instead of looking around and thinking "why aren't any of the women I consider peers interested in dating me," maybe you should be re-evaluating your actual potential as a life partner.

 

Are we seriously questioning the basic biology of men caring more about looks and women caring more about money?  

You could honestly find 1,000 "old rich guy, young hot girl" couples before you'd find even one where the genders are flipped.  It's at least 1,000 to 1 ratio.

 

If this is a troll post, it's not sarcastically witty enough.

If it's not ...... I can't believe there's people out there who actually unironically buy into this cringe Andrew Tate/ Patrick Bateman/ sigma grindset shit lolllll. It's misogynistic and judgmental. Touch some grass pal.

To each their own I guess

 

Anyone who types with “…” or says misogyny in a serious tone can’t bench 225

 

Great post. I feel the same (I'm dating a girl who's making close to minimal wage, but she's an incredible person and good looking, but I actually look even better). But I think I understand why it happens. The reasons I see:

1) Some men prefer to have a leverage in their relationship. It gives them comfort. You can make decisions that favor you and she can't say nothing cause you're brining food to the table. For example, you're getting crashed at work and don't wanna do something, like cooking or cleaning - you can ask your girl to do it. I just had my girl ship a package for me cause I'm busy. Same with sex btw. My girl eats my ass and does whatever I say. If you're dating an equal, you'll probably have to do what she wants instead of telling your girl to do what you want.

2) Some men are scared of women who are ideal. If the girl has everything (smart, great person, hot), it's intimidating. I had such girls at school and I never felt like I'm good enough for them, cause I'm a human being with flaws, and they were perfect. So I never approached any of them, even though I remember they showed me interest, but I flirted my way away (basically joked with them but never initiated anything) cause I was scared.

3) Now as an adult, all successful hot smart girls you see are at work (cause hot girls on apps are like hot cakes and successful girls don't even use them as much cause there is a hookup rep to them). Do you approach them? Imagine, if you hit off with them and then it comes time to have sex and you're completely incompatible. Let's say you're a Dom and like to throw your girl around, choke, slap her, etc. And she's a complete vanilla. You won't be able to stay hard if you don't enjoy sex, so it'll be the end of your relationship. Then the girl will spread rumors and people will talk shit about you at work. Do you need it?

 

The reporting on the story is so odd.  From the NY Post:

"Cheney lived in a sprawling six-bedroom, seven-bathroom apartment in New Canaan, Connecticut, records show. The 8,100-square-foot home’s estimated market value is more than $3.8 million, according to its Zillow profile. A reporter from The Post visited the ritzy address Thursday, where they found scattered sports equipment and a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the driveway."

1. Odd to hear so many points of emphasis on the home, which couldn't be more normal for a mid-40s NYC finance person.

2. Immediately below the description of this "apartment" is a photo of a house.

3. "Ritzy address" . . is that what we're calling New Canaan now?

To be clear, not making fun of the guy or the family at all, just find the reporting to be a 2nd layer of weird on top of the story itself.  Reporting like it was Jay Gatsby or something.

 

Funnily enough it seems I’m able to date “up” in terms of career/education/intelligence, but only “down” in terms of attractiveness in NYC. But I’m in tech/quant so idk if that affects my results or not 

 

Lol well for example, I only have a bachelor's degree but I went on a couple dates with a woman who is currently a PhD candidate at MIT in a rigorous field. Also, some of the women that have pursued me tend to have "broader intelligence" meaning that they have more knowledge of culture, the arts, politics, history, etc whereas I'm only really good at math/cs so I tend to suffer from more insular thinking. 

 

You date who you can get

Your friends aren’t dating “down”. They are  dating at their market value. Women and men value different things in each other, and in relationships (especially short term/hookups) being a banker holds much much much less weight than you think

odds add you have a big ego and your friends are typical overcompensating finance dorks 

 

People that tie their worth to their job, especially with dating, likely do so because they dont have much to offer outside of their job. If you are a banker for example and think you are dating down or cant get dates in general then you likely have some blind spots. Dont get me wrong, money is a force multiplier and all things equal (it never is) the more the better. Finance attracts a lot of guys like this, who grew up on models/bottles stories and Wall Street movies, and think being a banker is their ticket to scoring chicks.

It isnt

 

It’s interesting how much OP ties personality and value to job title and earning potential. I think it’s a fallacy to assume position and stature imply excellence; the sum of your achievements isn’t close to a 1-to-1 representation of your merit and effort, blah blah etc.

To borrow from macro, a lot of the really great long term relationships I see leverage comparative advantage a lot (as is alluded to many times above). If you have more than enough money coming into the relationship, your marginal benefit would be much bigger focusing on other things as a team.

While the dual massive income is certainly attractive on a family balance sheet, I feel like a lot of the time the desire to both be “high performing” stems from insecurity and the need for praise/societal positive reinforcement. It’s kind of tragic when a family has more money than they could ever spend but both work as a managing partner/chief of med type, deprioritize time with their kids, and really bang some trauma into their brains.

That’s how you end up with really highly educated A-type children who constantly seek the next summit and feel like they need A-1 tier everything to show their worth (because they are confused as to why they had so little worth measured in parental attention… i.e. why do Mom and Dad prefer to making money vs hanging out with me when we already have SO much money?)

Obviously a lot of speculation here and am talking both about OP and myself. But that’s just my two cents after struggling with these dynamics and thinking about what I want and value out of my partner - full disclosure I am biased as a banker in a happy relationship with someone who earns way way less than I do (but who is definitely cooler, smarter, and more talented than I am). 

 

You are spot on with marginal benefits. If you quantified all the traits you want in partner (income, looks, physical health, education, personality, interests, etc.) like it was some Sims character, you would be far better off or more 'valuable' as a dating partner to be above average across all than great in any one and below average in the others. This can be hard to conceptualize because if you are a super high earner, or a fitness buff, you obviously value that component of your life more and might not understand why others dont. So if you're a chubby investment banker who works 80 hours a week and spends time off work to unwind at a cocktail bar or watching Netflix then your dating pool is likely smaller than a big 4 accountant with a six pack who spends free time flying to other countries to rock climb.

At least in your 20s-30s. Cant speak for the oldies 

 

My fiance makes not even 20% of what I make in dollars, but who cares.  She works a job that much more emotionally taxing (in education), takes care of tons of housework, is a great conversationalist, forces me to be social, and is someone I can talk to about any problem I have.  She also is very frugal, actively participates in our monthly budget meetings, always finds ways to make my day better, and I know she will be a great mom.  I personally wouldn't want to be with someone who's main focus is money / career because I can take care of that part of the relationship, the woman in my life fills the gap of all the things I lack and I don't know if I could ever put a dollar amount on that. 

All this to say, I hope you realize someday that there's a lot more to a relationship than money / prestige.

 

I've never related so much to a post before.

Girls with competitive careers are certainly hard to get. But not impossible.

I don't like the idea of dating down either, because I think it's important to be able to have an intellectually constructive conversation.
Most people date down because they can't get girls that are both smart and are good looking. But that's definitely the ideal type of girls.

I'd go further to say that a girl with a competitive career that looks good is better than 10/10 model.

 

Wife is a banker, hands down the right move. Both at BBs, I’m a VP and she just made MD this year. People under estimate:

  1. The respect you have for each other -> they know the grind and give you kudos for the hustle, actually understand what we put up with
  1. Ability to pay for specialized childcare -> your stay at home wife can’t compete with the trained educators we hire
  1. Other financial upsides -> on track to retired within 10 years to enjoy my kids during their late middle school through college years
 

Nice, yeah kudos to you and your wife, especially if you’re both happy with the situation. I did think about the respect thing, but again, I don’t think position reflects value. You can respect someone for being intelligent vs respecting them for their achievements, which I’d argue is the more fulfilling, less “what have you done lately” line of thinking. If you quantify respect by title, then logically whoever outranks the other would/should look down on their partner. 

I think your partner is smart enough to respect your grit and hustle without romanticizing it/experiencing it his/herself. And at the end of the day it felt more like how much senior banker shit can I eat and stay sane vs any real standout aptitude/mental horsepower.

I 100% agree with the kid schooling thing. I got excellent schooling as my parents invested a ton in me, but on the flipside think I’m pretty insecure and neurotic because I spent a lot of time achieving vs getting to see them. Most of that damage is probably done before age 13 and a lot of my rich friends with a more extreme version of my upbringing (tutors, au pairs, nanny, daycare, competitive extracurriculars) did well in school but are heavily medicated now/feel like they need to do x/y/z for their parents’ approval that they obviously have already but can’t see for themselves.

At the end of the day, I’m not really even focusing on kids though. Even within the relationship I figure you can maximize team utility. Because I snap necks and get paychecks and am happy doing so, it’s really cool IMO that my partner gets to do whatever she wants to chase her dreams. If your partner happens to also want to do the same finance track as you, more power to both of you. But I wonder why if the excess money has diminishing returns. Maybe NY is really just that expensive these days. Or maybe everyone is different. :P

Idk man, just shootin from the hip over here.

 

If you’re talking long-term, I think the main factor in all this is really the question of having and raising kids

If both parents are extremely career driven and have mega busy professional lives as a result, then something will have to give when kids enter the equation— one or both partners will have to cut back on the work hours and/or you’ll end up having someone else raise your children for you

So (if you want kids) it could make sense to ask children of ‘power couples’ whether they found their upbringing to be a happy one + think about how to best navigate that

 

I also prefer dating someone who has a relatively good corporate career. The biggest hurdle has more so been just been finding them as they’re a small proportion of the population rather than them not wanting to date me (obviously the chemistry isn’t going to be there with everybody but you get my point).

 

Based off my memory most of the driven girls in my school either went into B4 or consulting. I think you should look outside of finance.

Also doctors/lawyers would see you as lesser because they have a doctorate and you’re only A bachelors. 

Array
 

I agree with this tbh. I think you relate a lot more to people who are also in other elite careers as they understand the hardwork, stress and competitiveness. Also as people say about surrounding yourself with ambitious people, same applies to your partner - it definitely rubs off on you. 

 

I am a woman in investment banking and I’ll say this. My peers are idiots and I’d rather date someone older in finance who makes more than me. I work this hard in my career to provide for myself until I meet a man I want to sacrifice a career for and have his babies. My mother worked my whole life and she missed tons of moments. Bankers also have to travel to see clients and kids will miss their mom. Nanny’s aren’t parents.

Hate to go all gender roles on everyone but men and women seek different things in relationships. Men look for respect where women look security.

Especially in regards to finance, women who are successful have to give up a lot. Peak fertility is 28 for a woman - if you didn’t go to business school that’s a 3rd year Assoc.

High risk pregnancy is 35 - that’s around director/md level. Then your pay and comp is directly affected by your book of business. How are you supposed to serve clients and run half year m&a processes when you’re 1) pregnant and 2) post partum/on maternity leave that’s about 6 months out of work then do that a few times for ea kid. And if you wait till MD to start trying, you probably have to deal with tons of expensive fertility treatments that make you hormonal and have horrendous mood swings which require self administering shots every night for months for embryo harvesting.

Can it be done - yes. Is it hard - absolutely. Is it worth it - not really if you’re good looking. Women want security and to be taken care of. Earning your own money just gives you the ability to tell your husband to fuck off. God forbid you have a better year than him and he doesn’t have the confidence to handle it…..

Personally, I want 4 kids and that’s not going to work with a high powered finance job.

You do what works for you but

1) banking is the bottom of the finance world (so not prestigious)

2) you seem like the guy who would spend the whole date talking about how smart you think you are

3) women want different things and to be provided for

4) really think about how you add value to a relationship if you want to date someone who you think is equal - they prob think they are better than you or they are desperate because they need someone to have kids with ASAP due to biology.

 

success and intelligence come from many places - positions and jobs come and go. you can have an all star intelligent wife who has other passions/aspirations than sitting in an office and avoiding the children at home.

 

You are the perfect example of a high achieving woman who won't get married until she's 40 and will then end up marrying down. 

The men who are making 5-10 mill + a year who you are targeting - why would they date you? The guys who I know in this category and are a bit older are still single either because a. they don't want to get married or b. find a trophy wife. An ex investment banking analyst/associate will not make a good candidate for a trophy wife FWIW.

Anyhow, I am sure a guy who's earning in this range is going to make whoever they marry signs a prenup (You sound a bit younger and I'm sure you'll get a reality check in a couple years). If you had some self awareness, you'd find a guy with a high potential that you've helped "build" over the years. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the OP: 

You should be confident in your own ability to succeed. Why do you need another earner in the family? I'm sure you can clear mid 6 figures mid career (at least) and that is more than enough to raise a good family. The incremental money your wife is going to make is not going to make a significant difference in your lifestyle. If you end up capping out a couple a mill, how is your life going to be much different if your wife earns a couple mill also? Most kids who I know who's parents were both high earning dual income never saw their parents growing up and are quite miserable/have mental issues. 

Find someone who shares the same passions/hobbies/interest/values that you have. Stop focusing on the high earners. 

A single male earning over 500k is top 1% in the USA. You can literally date 99% + women in the USA or even outside the country. 

Array
 

we don't need to marry if it doesn't bring us benefits. the only "downside" is bigots like you thinking that it's something to be avoided at all costs.

what about that do you not get?

I do see that this commenter in particular wants kids, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be any need to add a sub-standard partner to her life. Better alone than with someone sub-standard.

 

You're absolutely allowed to have your opinion! Here's mine: I get the sense you haven't been in a serious relationship that has involved you considering a future together with a girl before. In your post, you talk about finding a partner to be in a relationship with in terms of looks, occupation, and background, but never once mentioned how much importance you assigned to their loyalty, their kindness, their ability to emotionally support you when you're on the cusp of a mental breakdown after a week of coffee fueled all nighters.

As a friendly word of advice, I'd focus on that first. It's surprisingly difficult to find - almost everyone still has growing to do in their 20s

 

Another thing to add is 80-100 hour workweeks with on-call availability are extremely unattractive to most people. Even people who move up the corporate ladder in most jobs  are usually working 50-60 and 70 on really bad weeks. Doctors will get leeway if it’s residency or a ER surgeon who has night call. But a banker? Nobody will understand why the work you do is so urgent and pressing, and honestly most analysts here themselves don’t think it should be either. People who move to the cities and pay exorbitant rent mostly due so for the access to nightlife and culture. There is certainly a jobs piece to it, but most jobs like MBB / B4 offer the ability to work from regional offices much better than finance does, so those people coming to NYC are still doing so for the lifestyle piece. You can imagine such people if they date would want to go to all the events with their SO. If you’re always at work it’s an extremely turn-off.

Array
 

I don’t see anything wrong with dating a girl that works one of those jobs. I seem to get that you are a smart dude, you should be able to deduct if a girl is hardworking and driven. I have met many great hard working girls that don’t do investment banking, or high finance. I feel like you are saying that in order for them to be considered hard working they have to work high finance which is totally a douche/entitled way of speaking, not saying you are one. I would just keep your options open and instead of focusing on job/social status focus on a girl who truly makes you happy and makes you excited to wake up and come home after work, someone who motivates you.

 

My work has nothing to do with any relationship…

And when I invested my efforts to help global to solve issues, they only care about money dumped into their ecosystem. That included the payment made to me.

Wasted my efforts and kindness.

 

It’s quite simple, women don’t maintain their beauty by working 80 hours week for 10 consecutive weeks…. All of beautiful women quit banking simply because their beauty is worth more than those 300k bonus. I’ve seen girls with super-model shape grow fat in several months after pursuing high finance, and honestly it isn’t worth it to sacrifice pretty body shape for pretty PPT decks

 

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