Prenup?
Ignore my job title - I'm starting to think more long term about my current girlfriend and wanted some thoughts around prenups. Not really asking whether or not to get one, as I imagine everyone on this site is on the same page that it is the prudent/smart thing to do.. More just want to hear about how folks have brought up this topic and how the response was?
To give some more detail, she works in HR so she makes a good salary and will likely have some solid career progression, but obviously comp is no where near IB analyst (currently ~70k, clear path to 150k?)..
Know I am going to hear something along the lines of "Are you expecting us to fail" or something to that effect..Any tips on how to bring it up while causing the least amount of tension (preferably from those who have had this convo) would be appreciated.
Are you expecting to inherit 8+ figures? Otherwise trying to get a prenup based on your finance / IB earnings is pretty silly, IMO.
Interesting.. would like to hear more on why you think that. Seems like it could be protecting millions of dollars, even just from finance income
The odds of you making millions of dollars / year is extremely slim. The vast, vast majority of people who start in IB will never make MD / partner / PM / other 7 figure position. Would be pretty silly of you to get a prenup only to end up doing corp dev or other high-paying but not crazy dollar role.
I mean I know a doctor who married another doctor only if she agreed to do a prenup. He's an only child and I'm pretty sure his inheritance will be around $5M all-in (non-liquid, including investments etc). Seems uncommon around that type of inheritance/family net worth but it does happen (still a bit surprised that she went through with it but from what I understand, her parents are also fairly well to do as well but she isn't an only child). I assume OP comes from a well to do family.
Also know of two sisters who will have easily a 8+ figure inheritance each and I'm pretty sure they had a similar setup with their spouses.
With the divorce rate being 60+% nowadays you think a prenup is bad? Power of that p...
Whether she signs one or not you have a prenup. If she doesn't sign one then by default your state's laws will determine how everything goes. Unfortunately, you have two things against you. One, the state prenup you have benefits her so she has no incentive to want a different prenup, and two, you can't talk to most women logically. All she's going to hear is "You don't trust me." at best, at worst "He's onto me." You also have to approach it correctly otherwise later down the road she can say she signed it under duress. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe they're hard to defend.
I've seen many women become nonchalant about marriage after the wedding. They joke, "I'm going to leave him if he does this and that." I've never seen a married man joke about divorce. And with so many marriages ending in divorce and women filing 70% of them, it's scary.
I'd be interested to hear how the married men and the divorced men on this forum have approached this as well. It sounds like a headache.
Edit: I once argued about prenups with my girlfriend. She was against prenups, but she also had a small business at the time. I asked her, "Would you sign a contract to do business with someone where they could break the contract whenever they wanted without any repercussions? Additionally, they were incentivized to break the contract. And if they broke the contract they got 50% of your business that was worth more, and you had to support and fund their business going forward. On top of that, you brought more resources to the deal." She said no without hesitation. Most women would say no, but for some reason, they become mental gymnasts when it comes to marriage and prenups.
Can’t wait for the final gender equality solution act to be passed which voids alimony. Should be part of grand bargain to allow abortions nationwide.
It’s not really the right way to go about thinking of a prenup as protecting income earned during a marriage… Inheritance/pre-marital assets, sure. Spousal support obligations post-marriage, depends, courts often strike down no-alimony clauses. Protection against spousal debts - absolutely (single most important reason everyone should get one). But it’s a bit out of touch to think that all the money you make during your marriage will completely stay yours through a pre-nup
From what I’ve read it doesn’t seem uncommon to outline protection of future earnings in a pre-nup, which in these industries can be miilions
In my experience, unheard of for someone with 5-6 figure net worth, making low 6 figures at the time of the marriage, to have a prenup. Happy to be corrected.
Someone else mentioned a soon-to-be physician with a $5m inheritance. That feels like the lower bound to me . . that kind of assets and current earnings may be plausible but below that feels like a big stretch.
Inheritances / pre-marital assets are protected by state divorce laws in NY
Just tell her you need to have one in order to become a Partner of a PE firm one day. "Legal and Compliance said they can't risk the prospect of someone hypothetically being able to take over half my ownership stake in the fund/company. If they did allow it, so many of the Baby Boomers have been divorced at this point that half of our fund would belong to ex-wives of our MDs and Partners"
If that doesn't work try wearing her down emotionally and making her feel like she's a bad person and it's her fault you're depressed unless she signs your prenup. You want to try and force her into a role as your care taker. Ideally if she's hesitant you take a bunch of sleeping pills and call her mother making vaguely suicidal threats in between hiccups.
This made me laugh harder than it should have
Let her come to you first and say that she wants marriage. Then, if that's something you want, you can set the terms of going through with it. If you ask her first for marriage, you are trying to qualify yourself to her. It now makes it hard for you to request for a prenup without coming off like a douche. Basically, you shouldn't even bring up a prenup until your girl says she wants to get married.
She has brought it up already
Okay then just say if she wants to get married that she'll need a prenup. Just say it's not that you don't trust her but are verifying her commitment to you.
This man is seriously trying to "negotiate" a marriage. When you make MD, I wanna work for you my guy.
You can't protect future earnings with a prenup so this is a fucking retarded question
this kid is a fucking clown
How about you take one fucking google search before spewing bullshit, numb nuts
"Just as a future asset can be protected by a prenup if adequately described, future income can also be treated as belonging to one partner but not both. This can be useful if one partner operates a business that initially generates only a small amount of income but can be forecast to provide much more income in the future."
Does a Prenup Protect My Future Assets? - SmartAsset
Prenups are primarily intended to protect assets that are owned at the time of the marriage. Any property acquired after the ceremony is typically considered jointly owned marital property. The equitable distribution of joint property will be determined during the divorce proceedings. Prenups can also protect assets one of the signers may acquire in the future. However, the prenuptial agreement needs to be carefully written for that to be the case.
Read that again: assets acquired in the future. That is not future earnings.
Honestly pussy galore is being a huge dick about it but from everything I know about prenups having tried to get one drafted in a prior relationship he is correct. Generally speaking prenups only functionally cover premarital assets.
note that my fiancée broke it off before we got married (she agreed to a prenup).
also what’s the point of getting married to you if you’re not providing for her? It’s not like you’re wealthy.
you probably also have access to free / discounted legal services through your bank (or you can sign up next benefit cycle) and you can get advice from a professional and hear essentially the same thing.
i was being a dick. that's fair. i apologize to OP. good friend of mine is head of pwm at GS and i asked him the exact question and he said you can't
all i saw was some fucking analyst who thinks his salary is hot shit and lording it over someone in HR and don't tolerate that in this industry. he says he has an inheritance that's entirely different and worth the post
I don’t tolerate lording over anyone . . except HR and Compliance who are professionals at lording over people
I have no issue with having a prenup to protect a large inheritance from before marriage or to protect against spousal debt. But protecting future earnings?
In my opinion, when you enter into marriage, you are a team. In order to become a Partner / MD or PM at a fund your wife/husband will be immensely important in supporting you, help taking care of potential children / home / pets / sacrificing his/her time to be there for you, showing up for Christmas parties and random gatherings, hosting associate drinks/dinners and supporting your choice to never be home and travel all the time.
Someone needs to take the kids to the doctors appointment or whatever inconvenient thing that you can't do every time because you are gunning for MD.
When you make MD, so does your partner and in my opinion he/she has as much right to the money you earn while you are married as you have.
Great take
I don’t like to criticize this take because it’s obvi coming from a place of kindness and respect for others. So I withheld throwing MS.
But this is basically a re-hash of the legal system’s justification for screwing high earners in divorce. “You were equal partners.”. And that attitude is what leads to prenups in the first place . . the higher earner doesn’t feel he’ll be treated fairly so he protects himself in advance, at high cost and stress/hurt to both parties.
So I don’t think the speech solves anything, sorry, frankly surprised at everyone finding it so helpful. Maybe it’s just that I’d heard it before and others hadn’t.
If the legal system would instead recognize that a spouse making $1m a year is in fact a larger contributor than the other spouse, maybe we wouldn’t have so many prenups. But of course we’d have to know where to draw the line so maybe prenup really the only way.
Everyone saying this is stupid is correct.
I’ve had conversations with lawyers who specialize in prenups (have an inheritance so my parents are making me do this before I get serious about marrying anyone) and they all say the prenup is useless on anything earned during marriage. Prenups are basically good for existing wealth, future inheritance / trust funds, and nothing else.
Essentially, courts view you as a team from marriage onward, and even if your partner makes less (or doesn’t work and makes 0) the court views it as they supported you at home and thus you’re going to pay alimony. Even if you can get a lawyer to write that up and the wife to sign, it still won’t hold up in a divorce.
Thank you lol
Date and fuck till 40s while building wealth then settle with a hot 20s with a prenup.
This is the way
What if a couple is not married but living together? In that case would income be protected?
Look up common law marriage and communal property laws for the state you live in.
I just don’t get the prenup obsession. Y’all dating broke in debt gold diggers or something!? Marry an equal who is successful, prudent, and proper.
Divorce rate ~50% and that doesn’t include all the folks who stay together because they heard divorce is an even bigger nightmare than marriage.
I didn't mention anything about the current divorce rate. And a prenup won't hedge the stress, grief, cost, and hardship of a divorce (notwithstanding the OPs 5 figure networth). Why are folks seeking marriage with broke, indebt, or unsuccessful mates?
I would really wonder if all the big swinging dicks on WSO would sign a prenup if their soon to be spouse had a big existing net worth.
Dr. Why are divorce rates so high? Might as well not get married wtf
The divorce rate isn't ~50%
https://www.goldbergjones-or.com/divorce/50-divorce-rate-lie/#:~:text=I….
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