Types of Diversity Tier List??

I saw someone post this tier list in a thread this morning, is it accurate or just a joke comment?

Tier Cheat Code: Black Female 

Tier Ez Offer: Black Male, Hispanic Female

Tier +1000% Chance of Offer: Hispanic Male, Native American Female

Tier +750% Chance of Offer: Native American Male, White Female, Asian Female, Pacific Islander Female, Transgender

Tier Are You Even Diversity?: Pacific Islander Male, Gay

Tier "Diversity" (Hint: Not Really): Veteran, Disabled, Bisexual

Tier Fuck You: White Male/Asian Male

Comments (60)

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
May 8, 2022 - 1:13pm

From a numbers perspective probably 80% of applicants are nondiverse, 20% are diverse (based on the people I see at bank info sessions) but for classes, 70% are diverse and 30% nondiverse. 

If 1000 apply for 100 slots.

Diversity acceptance rate = 70/200 = 35%

Nondiversity acceptance rate = 30/800 = 3.75%

And this is assuming that nondiversity and diversity candidates are equally qualified on paper (which they are not, I imagine the non-diverse pool has more hardos with better resumes)

May 8, 2022 - 2:10pm
Barney_Stinson, what's your opinion? Comment below:

What bank are you working at that you see 70% diversity? Everyone claims diversity is the majority now but once you actually go work / intern you'll quickly see that's not true. If you're counting women and URM as diveristy the numbers are probably closer to - Apps: 70/30 (more non diverse), Acceptance : 60/40 (in favor of non diverse), so yes there is some disparity but no where near what u claim

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
May 8, 2022 - 2:11pm

SA 2023 at least, the pendulum has shifted very fast. 

Also, lots of people who are "diversity" don't actually look the part. Tons of white guys pretending that their Hispanic for recruiting that you would never be able to tell are diverse candidates.

It makes sense that diversity would be around 70% of the class since banks want their analysts classes to look like the general population. Asian/white males are only around 30% of the population.

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
May 8, 2022 - 2:16pm

Not sure where you got 60/40 in favor of nondiverse for analyst classes since aren't most analyst classes 50/50 when it comes to men/women? All women are diverse so when you add all the Hispanic/Black/LGBT males, it easily becomes 70%.

  • Analyst 1 in AM - FI
May 8, 2022 - 1:28pm

Disagree on the bottom part as White males have a greater chance than Asian/ Middle Eastern males (Also much easier to get promoted to senior levels)

  • Intern in PE - Other
May 8, 2022 - 2:38pm

Fantastically reassuring for my career goals lol

May 8, 2022 - 3:27pm
j_castillo14, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Well China's already the world's largest economy. I'd venture a guess that as long as you're Japanese/Han Chinese/Korean, you'll do ok as international white-shoe shops will always want to have a link to Asia-Pacific (who are known to be tremendously xenophobic).

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Cov
May 8, 2022 - 3:01pm

this dude forgetting that corporate america can only quantify race/ethnicity, he thinks being broke matters to them 🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭

May 8, 2022 - 3:05pm
cup_of_cum, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I don't know how the things are going in America, but here in UK Big 4 and BB are trying to bring social diversity too as far as I know. A lot of firms partner up with social mobility charities like SEO, Bright Network and UpReach. At least they saying they are, i don't know if there any figures to back up my statement.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 8, 2022 - 8:13pm

Lol salty average non-diversity kids don't want to hear that statistically the biggest benefactors of affirmative action have been white women. They want to play the victim card, they don't want facts.

  • Prospect in IB - Gen
May 8, 2022 - 8:20pm

Pretty sure no white women are complaining about diversity recruiting. It's straight white/Asian males complaining about it so idk how white women is some sort of a gotcha.

Controversial
May 8, 2022 - 6:21pm
CisSiberianOrchestra, what's your opinion? Comment below:

AndyLouis you gotta get some moderation on the forum. It's devolving into a bunch of unqualified kids bitching about women and minorities. 
 

This forum is a great resource, but is this really the type of content that you want people to associate your site with?

Funniest
May 8, 2022 - 6:25pm
Pio nono, what's your opinion? Comment below:

These are the posts that make this forum the most valuable. The more people get counter programming to the mansonian helter skelter nonsense that the race baiting hr vendor grifter class hoists on us the better. 

May 9, 2022 - 12:03am
IncomingIBDreject, what's your opinion? Comment below:

May I suggest Reddit as a social media platform you may like?

One of the greatest values of this site is the relatively lax censorship rules that allow for intelligent and thoughtful discussion on controversial issues. Of course you're free to join in on the discussions, but you know you'd lose and hence like a whiny child you want others to be silenced and censored. Welcome to the world outside of your bubble.

Array

  • 4
May 9, 2022 - 1:21am
margin_calls, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

Yep! Know a guy who is English but grew up in Mexico. He's white af, but has a shit ton of diversity programs on his Linkedin. Heard that they kicked him out of a diversity group chat about 2 months ago, apparently, he was too rude towards the prospects wanting to know how he was able to pull 3+ IB offers.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
May 8, 2022 - 6:33pm

From a conversation I over heard with an IB MD that was talking with some VP's in a ride on the way back to the office.  He's 55 years old now and entered banking straight out of school so was a junior in the early 90's and is based in U.S.

According to him (meaning take with a grain of salt)

Wealthy well-connected kids at targets/semi (50-60% of the class)
- Your standard IB kid (top HS and target/semi university coming from affluent suburbs)

Non-connected kids from those affluent burbs( 20-30% of class)

- basically target/semi hardos who didn't have parents in the business but had parents who were able to afford living in those areas and going to the same schools as the wealthy well-connected kids.

Well-connected non-target kids (10% of the class)

-  I was surprised that it was this low tbh but I guess back in those days banking was much more popular so well-connected targets and hardos filling up seats

Yeah lower end of the percentages don't add up but those are the numbers I remember.  Also again, this was in IB.  He did mention that in S&T there was a bit more "diversity" in terms of non-target kids making it and rich "posh" kids not making it (more so for trading than sales).  

Just goes to show that banking was never just go to top ivy, interview well, and boom you're in. 
 

May 8, 2022 - 8:15pm
j_castillo14, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Pretty sure that's just because the average pleb didn't know jack shit about finance. It was an era when the global literacy rate was sub-60% and people were supporting a nuclear family without graduating high school. They would've had neither the desire nor need to seek out the field.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

eh, non-affluent targets aren't so much in a disadvantage. But non-target AND non-affluent? yep good luck.

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

I've posted on this thread a couple of times. Consolidating my opinions in a new comment. Don't want to offend anyone, but rather offer additional insight. My background is Asian male born overseas to two immigrants that moved to the mid-west with no prior Wall Street or East Coast connections. I started at a respected MM bank out of my mid-west non-target school and lateraled to a top NY BB bank and later went to a top MF group and was able to get promoted to VP. The reason I am commenting on this thread even after getting promoted, is to advocate for the younger generation of middle class Asian / White candidates that are stuck in this vicious cycle of not being able to get the banking offer of their choice regardless of their work ethic etc. Please see below for my consolidated thoughts: 

1) "Nothing stops anyone from getting these roles" - This is completely not true. I think as you move up the ranks diversity matters less and less little by little, because producing profit at the bottom-line is still what drives this industry. With that said, think about IB recruitment mathematically. GS essentially reserves entry level positions across the following distribution Woman - 50% | URM + LGBTQ Men - 20% | Target School Ivy League - 20% | 5% Nepotism | 5% Pure merit. That 20% distribution for target school Ivy League is also a complete hoax when you consider legacy + athlete + Exeter candidates that had a cake walk of an admission process that already favors minorities (Asian candidates need to score 240 points higher on SAT than Black applicants). So if you think about it, Diversity recruiting which reserved 70% of all applicants at a BB is already a 14X advantage over nepotism hires and takes away a large majority of potential entry level positions from pure merit hires. Furthermore, non-straight white / asian males are over 90% of the applicant pool and this 90% of applicants essentially have to duke it out for 5% of total spots. Also, at the mega-fund that I work at and recruit for, our LP's essentially demanded that we hire all woman candidates in the 2022 on-cycle process, and we had to amnesty all men that made it to the final round of the interview process. I understand that this industry is predominantly male driven, but essentially being forced to only hire woman is textbook discrimination

2) "What you call Asian culture is just immigrant culture shared across many colors" - The entire premise of why diversity recruiting is important is because African Americans and Hispanic candidates have a disadvantage in-terms of "wealth creation" or simply receiving generational wealth. All of these Asian immigrants that you refer to moved to US likely after the year 2000 with $0 of wealth to invest or build off. If these immigrant candidates are able to break down the wealth barrier and compete with Exeter alumni on the East Coast, there really isn't any excuse for a black candidate or hispanic candidate who's families have been in the US post-Civil Rights movement. I understand there have been barriers to these families generating wealth, however, following the civil rights movement many of these barriers have been mitigated. Additionally, if this superior immigrant culture is spread across many colors, why should a nigerian-american immigrant be allowed to have access to these diversity programs when they self-selected to move to the US. Lastly, no immigrant regardless of color is going to be a legacy at Exeter / Andover or have parents that force them to place Lacrosse / Squash in elementary school, which automatically provides them with a "culture fit check" and admission to Harvard's sailing team. I've seen 5 comments on this thread alone referring to international Asian candidates as "autistic" or "boring". Just because our culture doesn't align with old-money sports doesn't mean that we aren't able to develop and maintain relationships in financial services.

3) "Sports aren't a great analogy" - Maybe basketball in particular isn't a great analogy. There are plenty of non-freakishly athletic people who play major league hockey / baseball / football (kickers) / lacrosse. Who's to say that Asians can't do the same? Maybe if there was a quota placed on the NFL of MLB draft to select X% of Asian athletes a year, more Asian parents would invest in their children's athletic career from a young age. Sure, the chances that one of us has the genetic gifts of LeBron / Dwight Howard / JJ Watt is ~1%, but why are we only adjusting lucrative white collar careers against the strength of the Asian community? Cricket is actually a great example in that India is always near the top of international rankings for the world cup favorites. If Indian people can strive in Cricket, who's to say they can't strive in Baseball / Hockey? Why not adjust the athletic / entertainment industry against the strengths of the black community to even the playing field?

4) "Congrats on the success" First, thank you for the kind words and I wish you success in your career as well. One might ask why am I advocating for the restructuring or elimination of these diversity programs when I have already finished my analyst tenure at a top BB group and am currently up for promotion at a top MF private equity firm. I would describe this industry as a momentum driven career path. The individuals who receive admission to Exeter are more likely to end up at a Wharton --> GS / MS --> Blackstone --> Harvard Business School --> Partner track offer. Essentially what these programs do is bottle-neck any non-diverse state school applicant without east coast connections (99% of white / asians in the country) from breaking into both a top undergraduate institution and more importantly a top investment bank. Not event to mention how most on-campus organizations that feed into these banks also place an emphasis on recruiting freshman / sophomores who are URM. Essentially, if you are not able to break into a relatively well respected investment bank, it makes breaking onto the buyside virtually impossible. I am advocating against these programs, because I genuinely believe that if I was born 5 year later, I simply would not have been given an offer at the BB group of my choosing, and not received the MF offer that I spent years working towards. Why would an Asian / White candidates that was born in the year 2005 be penalized for not being born 15 years earlier? The next David Solomon, Dan Loeb, Areyeh Bourkoff might be a sophomore at the University of Wisconsin that never gets discovered because there are no spots for non-diversity candidates. If this happened to candidates in the 80's / 90's that could have turned out to become Robert Smith, it was a travesty then also. 

5) "Industry as profit-driven as Wall Street would not hire anyone who they didn't know could make them money" - We all know this isn't true. GS and MS literally post job requirements of "must have a 3.6 GPA to be considered" and then will hire minorities with a 3.0 GPA from Howard University. I'm not saying GPA is an all-knowing metric, but why even include the requirement if you're going to make exceptions to certain races? Additionally, Apollo / TPG / Warburg have all pledged to invest $1Bn each into minority owned businesses that have no track-record of producing alpha. Also, I've met woman and minorities who have gotten hired to top private equity funds on cycle without even having to complete an interview, simply because they were a part of SEO / MLT private equity cohort while asian / white men have to finish 6 hours of interviews and case studies in person starting at midnight. Now, I'm sure the common retort to this will be "Well Lloyd's son and all of his friends probably automatically got offers at GS and Blackstone through their Finals Club and daddy country club connections". I've worked in this industry for a long time, and only 5% of anyone I've met is an old-boys daddy money nepotism hire that basically didn't have to work or scrap for their offers. Diversity recruiting is many multiples higher than that of nepotism hiring.

6) To your initial point that 60% of your analyst class was white men: Why is this an issue? The majority of this country is white and the majority of applicants are white / asian men. It is mathematically more likely that the majority of full-time analyst hires come from one of these demographics. Is the hiring practice for elementary school teachers or nurses racist since 80% of this workforce is comprised of woman? Is the NBA / NFL racist in their drafting choices because the majority of athletes are African American men? What is the NFL / NBA instituted a diversity quota for a certain % of the draft to be Asian athletes? I would be against this, because I believe that merit should be selected in hiring practices. Imagine an 6'2" Asian center needing to check 6'11" Dwight Howard since the standards are lowered for him since he is diverse, I understand this is an imperfect example but it is more or less a similar analogy in terms of lowering the standard for the demographic with less representation.     

7) Your point that woman make better analysts: Again, I believe that no one should receive preferential treatment due to their gender or race. If Candidate A is a better than Candidate B and Candidate A happens to be a woman, great! Candidate A should receive the better staffing or promotion. If Candidate C is better than Candidate A, but is a straight white man, guess what? Also great! Let Candidate C get receive the benefits. Supporting diversity recruiting would be signing off on Candidate B simply because they are a woman vs the better Candidate C simply to inject diversity into the workforce. Also, woman statistically choose academic paths in STEM less often than men which impacts the # of woman that apply for roles in the financial services industry. The retort to this is typically that there is some abstract pressure against woman to not join STEM academic tracks. I've never seen anyone discouraging a woman from going into finance or STEM simply because "their place is in the kitchen or to write poetry". If this is the case, I and many of my male peers would be happy to protest along-side you. 

8) To your point on state school candidates staying in IB: You just proved that there is a certain level of "elitisms" in the country. Is there some level of merit when it comes to ivy league admissions? Absolutely, but the fact of the matter is, most Exeter alum likely wouldn't have gotten into an ivy league if they went to a public school in rural Arkansas. Why is it okay that we've been discrimination in favor of school pedigree for so long and it's horrible that less woman choose a career in financial services yielding less woman / minorities in the workforce? The overarching issue is that the U.S has underlying elitism in every aspect of society, but we only adjust the difficulty of breaking down these barriers for a few backgrounds. The issue here is more of a "class" issue rather than a "race" issue. 

9) Plenty of white and Asians from state schools work at GS / Evercore / Centerview, why wasn't that you: I am one of the state school Asians that this comment is referring to and I'll be completely honest in that I had it MULTIPLE standard deviations harder than any other ethnic group when it came to breaking in. I've sat on recruitment committees for 5+ years where we essentially invited white / Asian candidates to superdays already knowing that despite their performance that we were going to reject them, but had to invite them for optic reasons. I've seen people with stellar reviews also not get promoted simply because they are Asian / white. Not to mention how every university has a "pipeline" program that essentially is a feeder to a number of certain banks that recruit on campus. Many of these pipeline programs will also discriminate against white / asian men as I've seen at my alma mater. It's gotten to the point where there are significant additional hurdles for us to jump through at every level - Boarding school admission process, undergraduate admission process, pipeline feeder programs that connect you to certain banks, sophomore internship, junior year internships, full time recruiting, buyside recruiting, promotion tracks at every level and receiving capital from investors once you try and start you own fund. I honestly don't even blame all of the White people who claim to be 5% Hispanic or Native American anymore, it's honestly the only way to even be considered for some of these programs and now that I've made it to a relatively senior point in my career, will not be biased against these candidates due to survivors complex. 

Again I am not looking to troll or offend anyone and am not looking to come off as bigoted. These are comments that I hope I have backed up with Data and specific examples that show flaws in the diversity recruitment process. Personally, I would be in favor of socio-economic diversity, which in-turn should already be majority represented by under-represented minorities which should boost the merit of wall street recruiting. Happy to discuss any of my points in greater depth if that would be helpful. 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

highly doubt GS has to go out of their way for diversity to hire a Howard kid with 3.0 GPA.  Plenty of miniorities already at T20 alone.  

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

A couple of things. This isn't true, many banks, namely bulge brackets will hire minorities that do not meet a specific qualification such as GPA. As I mentioned, GPA is not an all-knowing metric, but why even add this requirement if it will be circumvented for certain ethnic groups. Also, even if there are plenty of minorities already at a T20 University or feeder program, they greatly benefitted from Affirmative Action and Diversity recruiting to even attend those Universities in the first place. Also, as many people have stated, even if a middle class white / asian male gets to a T20 university, all of the pipeline programs and on-campus recruiting efforts are geared towards woman + URM to where only 10% of spots are reserved for non-nepotism / non-diversity hires. Stop making excuses for the flaws in the diversity recruitment process.

  • Summer Associate in IB - Cov
May 9, 2022 - 10:33am

I know one 4th gen "hispanic" (his grand abuela was like Argentinian royalty who moved to the US 120 years ago with her husband), grew up on UES, very white, went through all the diversity recruiting, got multiple offers and ended up in a top group at a top BB. Great guy. The only "diverse" thing about him is his last name, though.

Jun 17, 2022 - 4:57am
sa-top tier pe, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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