Time to be honest about diversity

I have only been on WSO for a short period of time now. It is crazy how many people are talking about diversity internships and using phrases like "diversity low income gay" and proceed to inquire about the odds of landing a specific internship based on that alone. Even if some argue race and sexual orientation or income status are just "factors" it still signals and sends a message to people that the characteristics we have no control over matter to get our foot in the door.The case could be made about historical disadvantages for groups but I ask you WSO members is the answer to that problem more "positive" discrimination and division of people based on factors the individual cannot control? Or as I believe the hiring should be the merits of the individual and not consider factors people cannot control. And if your first reaction to this post is "I bet this fella is not a POC" you believe that all POCs think the same and that each one thinks having racial and gender quotas is a positive thing which in its very nature is discriminatory.I understand diversity is important to some degree but skin color doesn't define diversity contrary to popular belief. do all white people share the same experiences? No.Do all African Americans share the same expierences? No. I could go on but the point is diversity of the thoughts and opinions should be cherished not the difference of skin color this to me would be the idea of equality that should be preserved and stand the test of time.

Edit: as mentioned I am relatively new here and did not realize how many people posted about this topic. But if many people are talking about it that's a sign to me that's it's an issue in peoples minds.

Comments (80)

Aug 12, 2022 - 7:29pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

What in my post upset you the most out of curiosity and good faith? If you say it's just the topic has been discussed on WSO before again I am relatively new and also maybe it's a sin more and more people want change.

Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:
mikeandblock

What in my post upset you the most out of curiosity and good faith? If you say it's just the topic has been discussed on WSO before again I am relatively new and also maybe it's a sin more and more people want change.

It's simply that every racist 19 year old twat posts the exact same fucking thing

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Aug 12, 2022 - 7:36pm
gsssa 2050, what's your opinion? Comment below:

You're trying to relitigate an issue which has been already concluded without bringing new information or a new perspective. No one really cares anymore

Aug 12, 2022 - 7:58pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Thank you for the response but I do believe many people still care in fact I would say more than ever before.

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Aug 12, 2022 - 9:52pm
thugs_bunny, what's your opinion? Comment below:

the only contribution this post made was to the number of exact posts like this. in an ideal world we would just be able to the roots of the problem and allow everyone to be on roughly equal footing all the way through the journey of life (grade school, uni, etc) but thats not the world we live in so companies do what they can. not defending current practices at all but you have to be either willfully ignorant or plain dumb to think that companies really think their current recruiting strategies are theoretically optimal, they just have to do their best in the situation they find themselves in.

Aug 13, 2022 - 12:44am
Yankee Doodle, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I think Israel should have affirmative action for non-Jews.

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn

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Aug 13, 2022 - 6:22am
2rigged2fail, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I think the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the near future. diversity is transitory

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Aug 14, 2022 - 11:16am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:
2rigged2fail

I think the pendulum will swing in the other direction in the near future. diversity is transitory

No it won't.  If anything it's going to intensify as more and more minorities and women figure out just how bad they've been getting ripped off for centuries.  Hiring a couple black lesbians isn't going to make this go away.

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Aug 14, 2022 - 6:18pm
2rigged2fail, what's your opinion? Comment below:

LMFAO. Why don't you arrange a firm to employ minorities/females and whatever tribe you're from exclusively so we can see how great it performs?

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Most Helpful
Aug 13, 2022 - 8:56am
ResMan, what's your opinion? Comment below:

In all seriousness, one of the funny things about affirmative action is that it works on the honor system. If people just started lying, the whole thing would implode.

"Hispanic", for example, isn't even a racial category. To the extent that it has a fixed definition, it basically means someone whose short or medium-term ancestry is from the Western Hemisphere and south of the United States. That includes people of black, white, and native American ancestry, and even Asian ancestry in certain cases. A white kid could just say that his maternal grandmother's family came from Argentina or something.

LGBTQetc is another one. If you said you were bisexual, who could possibly prove that you were lying? Literally everyone could check that box without consequence. Any corporate or institutional administrator who challenged someone on that would immediately be subject to a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Aug 14, 2022 - 11:17am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:
ResMan

In all seriousness, one of the funny things about affirmative action is that it works on the honor system. If people just started lying, the whole thing would implode.

"Hispanic", for example, isn't even a racial category. To the extent that it has a fixed definition, it basically means someone whose short or medium-term ancestry is from the Western Hemisphere and south of the United States. That includes people of black, white, and native American ancestry, and even Asian ancestry in certain cases. A white kid could just say that his maternal grandmother's family came from Argentina or something.

LGBTQetc is another one. If you said you were bisexual, who could possibly prove that you were lying? Literally everyone could check that box without consequence. Any corporate or institutional administrator who challenged someone on that would immediately be subject to a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Go ahead and lie in an attestation and let us n ownhwo that works out for you.  

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Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
PEarbitrage, what's your opinion? Comment below:

It actually means people who speak spanish.  It's only in America that we made it out to mean people south of the US.

Aug 13, 2022 - 12:27pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Again if you didn't see my rank I even started out by saying I was new to WSO sorry if it's repetitive but it doesn't undermine its importance

Aug 13, 2022 - 4:20pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I have faith that people on WSO who work in these industries can make change instead of just saying something is going to be a problem forger so just deal with it.

Aug 14, 2022 - 11:40am
monkey0114, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Nah because a lot of the people who diversity programs benefit fully believe in them. Like there a ton of very smart people at top universities who think they have been discriminated against/hate colonialism and imperialism. There are more and more of these people going into top places in positions of power which is only going to make the diversity stuff even worse.

This is one of the main reasons I think the West is finished. Like I know a lot of very smart people from minority backgrounds who hate the US/UK and believe in all the white privilege stuff. And these are all of the people going into positions of power in the future. Not saying who's right or wrong but simply stating an observation that its only going to get worse from here. 

Anyone who's been into politics over the last 5-10 years has seen how things have rapidly shifted over to the left and things show no sign of stopping. You can make arguments of "oh people are finally waking up and will put a stop to this" but no this is only people anonymously posting on WSO, the majority of whom won't say shit in the real world. I remember in 2016 when the feminism stuff was starting to get extreme and all the anti-SJW comps on YouTube were posted and everyone thought the pendulum was going to swing back in the opposite direction. But no it's only gotten far worse since then.

The West was on top of the world for hundreds of years and we are only at the start of it's decline. The pendulum won't swing back in our lifetime.

Aug 13, 2022 - 4:12pm
financeabc, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Anyone who believes in capitalism and the private sector should understand that companies can do whatever they want without violating the law.  If executives think diversity adds value to an organization, they ae going to implement measures to make the company more diverse. If you got screwed out of a job because a slightly less qualified candidate was highed then improve your networking skills to give yourself a better chance of getting the next job.  

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Aug 13, 2022 - 4:22pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Hiring people based in race or factoring in race is against the law. Some diversity internships are beginning to face scrutiny as they should. Also say the law didn't play a role the problem is that you define diversity in a narrow way that being skin color sexual orientation or disability etc. diversity should be of thoughts ideas opinions not a hiring criteria but a plus to hiring qualified candidates.

Aug 15, 2022 - 8:39am
financeabc, what's your opinion? Comment below:
mikeandblock

Assuming people that agree with the post must be white? Not like anyone didn't see that coming

Not sure but the people who are most vocal about being against diversity on WSO are not white. 

Aug 14, 2022 - 9:40am
Username_TBU, what's your opinion? Comment below:

People have been talking about diversity recruiting for years on this website, with most people unbelievably against it because it "takes their spots away."

My view:

- There was never a time where all spots were merit based. Maybe 20 years ago it was 60% with 40% for relationship hires. Maybe now it's 40 / 60 due to diversity push

- The goal of diversity recruiting is noble. People don't realize but it is an admission that hiring will not just be based on the best candidate based on scores, intelligence, social skills, etc. AND THAT'S OKAY. There's no "deserving" these jobs. It is up to the companies to decide what they want. And the idea is that there is no way for some diversity hires to have the same scores, intelligence, etc. as someone else because they don't have the same backgrounds, exposure, etc. (specifically socio-economic). That's why the idea of affirmative action is a student from an inner city school who gets a 1200 on the SAT has the same opportunity as someone else who gets a 1400 - it is known they don't get the same tutoring, etc.

- The execution on DEI is... okay. Some workplaces do it really well, bring in really smart folks who improve quickly because they're smart but never had the knowledge base. It's really awesome to see a minority who 20 years ago would be scoffed at be able to come from a low income background, get in at a top shop, work super hard, be a top performer, send money back to their parents, etc. These won't always work that well, but so long as someone can hold their own, I'm okay. But there's the other side, where there are two main problems I see that I would like the industry to focus on:

  - Minorities from wealthy backgrounds - the noble idea is to give those from poor backgrounds a shot and to elevate them. What ends up happening is companies like to publish stats on minorities, and so you see a ton of women and minorities who grew up in Connecticut, LA private schools, get hired. They have had every opportunity in the world. There is no need to give them a "boost" in the hiring process

  - Check the box / doesn't matter who - Totally undeserving minorities for the sake of diversity recruiting. This is the worst. Company needs to hire a position. Puts the focus on hiring a minority, even if none are qualified. Hires someone that has no business in the industry. This person may not care to learn or work. They can basically sit and twiddle their thumbs and collect a fat paycheck. And it is nearly impossible to let them go. Huge, huge drain on resources 

Aug 14, 2022 - 11:25am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Diversity hiring is only going to increase.  Women, minorities, gays etc are going to keep pressing for more as they figure out just how much they have been getting ripped off for essentially all their lives and their parents lives.  At a civilizational level they're not even close to parity as a whole, so trying to make the case that anything has gone to far only calls immediate attention to your chauvinism.  It's not about your narrow personal experience or one company or sector….it's about offsetting historical sins of the society at large and it's only going to pick up speed.

The thumb on the scale in their favor is to offset the scale that was built from the getgo to favor rich white men.  

Throw all the shit you want but you know this to be true. Upgrade your thinking and get on the right side of history.

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Aug 14, 2022 - 12:42pm
sneed and feed, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Lol it's pure grift by <90 IQ third worlders clamoring for handouts becauase they can't actually achieve things on their own. They need everything gifted to them by the White Man (well, gifted to them by the Longnose tribe after the Longnoses take it from the white man)

Aug 14, 2022 - 1:06pm
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Thank you for your opinion in the topic. But if your solution is to exclude white people and let them take a "back seat" you are no better than those who came before. Also people are on the same level in terms of legal status. Name one law on the books that actively discriminates against people. Instead of a merit system you want an equity based system in which the people you deem worthy or deserving get the job instead of qualified people.

Aug 14, 2022 - 4:10pm
BamieJimon, what's your opinion? Comment below:

"Right side of history" your thinking is elementary at best. Remember in kindergarten the saying they teach you? "Two wrongs don't make a right" you do realize that you can just interview equally and not have these programs that discriminate right? Ever thought about that?

bent
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Aug 14, 2022 - 8:10pm
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:
BamieJimon

"Right side of history" your thinking is elementary at best. Remember in kindergarten the saying they teach you? "Two wrongs don't make a right" you do realize that you can just interview equally and not have these programs that discriminate right? Ever thought about that?

Leveling the playing field isn't wrong ya shithead 🤣🤣🤣

If you're so confident in your point of view, be a man about it: rather than shitposting anonymously, write a letter to the CEO of your company and cc the diversity groups….explain how diversity is bad.

And let us know how that works out for you.

Get busy living
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Aug 15, 2022 - 9:14am
Username_TBU, what's your opinion? Comment below:

What does interviewing equally look like? The issue is that >90% of people don't recognize their biases. What does that mean - if the people hiring are all white men, they are more likely to connect with other white men, even if all candidates are the same in terms of "merit." 

Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:
PEarbitrage

Do you know what I love about feminists?  Women become the majority in many facets of life and they still act like they are the oppressed minority.  Fucking clown world.

Shut the fuck up

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Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
Ozymandia, what's your opinion? Comment below:
British Banker

The best person for the job should get it. A person should not be employed for some HRs statistic. 

Great post, Einstein!

Please describe in purely objective terms what the "best" person for the job is.

Aug 14, 2022 - 1:35pm
BankMeMommy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I don't know a single white guy, no matter his background or how hard he works, afforded that opportunity.

Aug 14, 2022 - 6:05pm
Intern2986564, what's your opinion? Comment below:

I hear so many arguments about this but none about the white kids that automatically get in because of their parents. Diversity hires are long term thinking decisions.

Aug 14, 2022 - 7:02pm
Intern2986564, what's your opinion? Comment below:

Even it's if a non white getting hired because of their parents. 90% of the time it is a white person, but let's ignore that for the sake of your nitpicking. Why are so many people bother by diversity hires yet rarely ever bother about kids getting hired automatically because if parents?

Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
UFOinsider, what's your opinion? Comment below:

mikeandblock

Do you think all white kids have parents or family that work in finance? If so please go talk to more white people. And other non white people that have parents or family working in finance and leverage the connections is not problematic?

You're changing the subject.  The point of diversity intitiatives is to create more diversity legacy hires.  Half the white people I know in industry are legacy hires and 90% benefitted from their parents money in some way…good schooling, connections, etc.  Only a handful of whites in the business come from humble beginnings.  Meanwhile almost ALL the POC folks I know in industry came from humble or extremely humble beginnings. 

The point is not you or any individual experience, but to level the playing field across the general population 

you'd understand this more easily if you weren't so busy trying to make a case against POC 🤷‍♂️

Get busy living
  • 4
Aug 15, 2022 - 12:47am
stateschoolguy, what's your opinion? Comment below:

That's bs. They don't care. The team interned at had 170 people and only 3 blacks, 3 Asian and One Hispanic. They don't care. All for show

Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
G_S_C, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
Ozymandia, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
mikeandblock, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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Aug 15, 2022 - 10:40am
Ozymandia, what's your opinion? Comment below:

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