Q&A: 2nd Year EB Analyst
Probably last thread for my throwaway account. Will answer once I'm off work. Halfway through my second year and staying on for associate through direct promotion
Probably last thread for my throwaway account. Will answer once I'm off work. Halfway through my second year and staying on for associate through direct promotion
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Saw your last thread. Really loved the discussion. About when did you realize during your analyst stint that you wanted to stay as an associate? I'm heading into my first year at an EB, and I'm not 100% sold on the PE/HF path.
As you know, I wasn't completely set on staying on as an associate until about a few days after the thread. I think the most important thing though is to keep an open mind going into the job. There are a lot of people who know from the start that they're going to leave after 2 years to do PE, but like you, I was not 100% sold on the PE/HF path and was always open to staying. The first six months on the job were pretty miserable because both my hours were bad and I was new to the job so I wasn't really doing the most exciting work. I think after this point and especially after the first year, I was given a lot more autonomy and I really started to enjoy the work.
PE is great and I have a lot of friends working in the industry, but I really wasn't a huge fan of working for two years only to have to go to business school and reapply again. I was also a little uncertain about senior opportunities having heard of people getting stuck just before the senior or partner levels. At least at my firm, the upward trajectory seemed more defined and certain. Those were reasons for my initial skepticism, but above all I just though that banking was a better fit for me and I was more interested in the work.
Thanks for the response. What are some good ways to get ready for the FT role? Anything you wished you had done before starting?
Thank you for doing this! Just want to ask if you come from the traditional route of target school->SA -> FT? Also did you consider HF/PE/MBA before decided to stay with your current firm? Were you involved with interviews for intern/fulltime analysts? What were the biggest things you looked for on a resume?
I went to a target school (H/Y/P/S/W) and did do junior SA to full time. I was a little nontraditional in that I was very much a quant in college. I studied math and CS, and worked at a large hedge fund my sophomore summer. I think I had more natural talent for that job, and probably would have made more money, but I really just wasn't that interested in the work.
Junior summer I did banking and fell in love with the culture of my group and the work, so it was a clear decision for me. I did consider PE before making my decision to stay on with the firm. I actually posted another thread here about my predicament which got some great responses from the community.
I was involved with full time and intern recruiting. I think I'm a little less picky than some people, but I just wanted people who were smart and had proven competency. Generally people who had above a 3.7, had some activities they were passionate about and involved in on campus, and had a reason for why they wanted to do banking. I realize most of the answers for "why banking" are complete BS, but there is some merit in being able to talk your way through an interview and convince me why you should work in the industry.
Seeing that you were involved with full time recruiting, how many spots were available this past recruiting cycle at your firm? I hear that some firms might not even have full time recruiting if all their interns accepted their offers and wanted to know how true that is.
Also, how serious are candidates without any IB experience taken in full time recruiting? Assuming they network, have finance experience, have a good story, know their technicals, etc.
Thanks -- sorry if this is too many questions.
1) What was the difference maker that convinced you to stay on as an associate vs. recruiting // taking a buyside job?
2) If you were gunning for the associate promotion from the start, when did you make your desire known, and when did you formally know you were getting it?
3) About what % of your analyst class is staying on associates?
4) Are you doing career-track banking or Associate 1 --> business school?
5) Do you see yourself staying at your shop long-term, or do you think eventually lateraling to a BB to build your own book is in order?
Thanks!!
1) I actually did recruit for PE and got a great offer, which I considered very seriously before deciding to stay on (see other thread). I tried to think about which job was a better fit for me and what I saw myself doing in 5 or 10 years. I think a lot of people jump from banking to private equity because it generally pays more and generally has better lifestyle, not because they're necessarily interested in the work. In my case pay wasn't a consideration, so I was able to truly think about which job I was more interested in.
2) The group approached me early in my second year and told me they wanted me to stay on, and that I should think about it over the next few weeks. More recently they made me a formal offer that I accepted.
3) I'm not entirely sure yet, but I would think 10-15%. A lot of associates are MBA hires.
4) I don't see much point in going to b school after associate 1 in my case, so I'm definitely looking to stay on. I think I'm in a good position with the group, and they seem intent on keeping me around.
5) I see myself staying here long term. If I ever decided to leave, it would be to work in a senior corporate role at a client, but I don't see this happening in the near term. This is just my opinion, but I think BB's are great places to start your career and boutiques are better once you're established. My EB had a top group that I was accepted into, so I decided to stay on after my summer instead of take my BB offer. At a senior level it seems like we poach BB MD's who want more pay and less red tape. While there are obviously some very heavy hitters at top groups of BB's (like GS TMT or MS Menlo) who clear astronomical figures, I'd say compensation and autonomy wise we are above average, so people are very happy here.
Hi, thanks for doing this. I have a question on lateraling. how hard is it to make a move from a small boutique to your firm? When is the best time to make a move? Thanks!
Honestly I'm not too sure about this. I think I only know of one person who moved from a smaller boutique to our firm, and it was at a time when we had surprisingly lost someone off-cycle and we were looking to hire. So, I would say it's probably difficult, but not impossible. I'm not convinced that many people have been in contact with us from small boutiques about lateral opportunities though, so I can't speak with certainty.
Regarding comp - you mentioned that your group pays above street. In general, is comp at asso/vp/director level higher at an EB than an average BB m&a/coverage group?
Yes, I would say on average comp at associate/vp/director levels are higher than an average BB group. Some also offer a greater percentage of bonuses in cash rather than stock (compared to BB's) which can also be appealing.
How much pull do analysts actually have in terms of getting SAs and analysts interviews?
I think we have a fair amount of pull in getting interviews for people. Less so for getting actual offers. Usually if a strong candidate connects with me, I will just leave his resume with our group and they will contact him if there are any openings
How should one go about recruiting for ft opportunities at your firm? Assuming he's summered at a lower mm?
The easiest way would be to know someone who works there or to participate in the resume drop if you're a target school. For firms in general I had contacts at a lot of the places I was interested so that helped. For someone coming in cold, if you have a specific group in mind, I think emailing HR to be put in contact with someone who can give you more information has been helpful in just learning about the firm and getting your foot in through the door.
Also will respond to all the PM's later
Congrats on the choice and good luck.
Thanks! I appreciate all of your feedback from the other thread
thanks for doing the AMA, added to the frontpage earlier this morning and will keep it up top today and again later this week (assuming you're still answering questions)
No problem, am happy to keep answering questions until they stop coming
How often do you see other analyst's decline BB offers for your bank? Also, what tends to be their reasoning?
I think we're a pretty solid group so most of the people working there had at least one BB offer as well that they were considering. I should note that there are people who had an offer from us and a BB and chose the BB. There are a couple main reasons I think to choose us over a BB: greater exposure and responsibility (lean deal teams), greater pay, better senior support (also related to lean deal teams)
What exits have you seen among the VP+ level bankers at your firm? Are they all into corp dev, with significant pay cuts? Thanks.
I've only been here for a little less than two years, so I haven't seen that many VP+ bankers leave in that time. Most stayed on for promotion. Of those that did leave (including some who left before I joined), a one left to become CFO of a mid size firm, a few went into a corporate role at a relatively new company and got equity, and fewer went into PE.
All three of these options were pay cuts, but honestly they definitely paid enough for the lifestyle difference to be trivial. I think people are usually content making mid six figures for more free time and perhaps even some equity.
Are there non targets at your firm and what is the perception on non targets at your for and other EBs?
There are non targets at our firm. People really don't care and even a few of our senior people were non targets. Honestly, after you graduate and you're actually working somewhere, no one cares if you went to Harvard or Wharton; they care about how good you are at your job.
What were your hours/lifestyle like your first 6 months, first year and now? Can you elaborate on the autonomy aspect you mentioned? Congrats on your decision and thanks for the AMA
There was a 3 month period in which I worked every single day, including weekends and holidays. It was miserable. The rest of those 6 months were 100+ hours a week. It's funny because no one really tells you when and how much to work. I got a little ahead of myself and would ask the staffer to assign me on more stuff when I had any down time and was finished with a deal. This was not the norm.
After you've proven yourself and done good work, people trust you. You can run point on some aspects of a deal, or even work directly with a VP. At some point I could tell that I was starting to get looped into big picture conversations, rather than just being told to do X and have it on someone's desk by the morning.
You should probably turn this into a "why I got an a-a promotion and they wanted to keep me by offering more money," "why IB possibly pays so much" and "why my bosses love me long time" thread. :)
what are the chances of getting into an EB (or even a BB) through the FT cycle without an IB internship? i'm looking at some local L/S HFs for this summer.
More difficulty than with one, but certainly not impossible. Chances vary significantly case by case, so it's hard to tell without knowing your background.
yes, i would imagine that most FT offers would be going to interns from other shops, but if this was the case, would you be able to offer any advise for people in that situation? currently, i'm trying to speak with basically anyone that i can get in front of via coffee chats, and will ideally get my name out there through that route. any other insights from your perspective would be greatly appreciated. thanks again for doing this.
I have a corporate development internship for this coming (sophomore) summer. What's the best way to sell that Corp Dev experience in recruiting for IB internships next year?
Depends on the nature of your corp dev internship. In general, I think it's a great experience that you can easily sell. If you get to do in-house M&A, you could say something like you got great transactional experience from the perspective of one company, but are keen to have a more comprehensive exposure through IB. Pretty rough, but it'd be easier to answer this after you've already had your internship. From what I've heard, corp dev internships can vary a lot.
What is recruitment like at the EBs for off cycle recruitment? Pedigree at places like Centerview seems to be extremely high.
Our group is pretty lean, so I can't speak generally to the off cycle recruitment process for all EB's. For us, we generally only do off cycle if we suddenly lose someone (happens very infrequently). Pedigree is important, but I would say past experience and qualifications are more important to us. I'd rather have someone from a top group at an MM that has tons of deal experience than someone from a less active group at say GS.
I'm a first-year at a MM. What can I do to best position myself for an offer to stay on as an associate? Do I need to have a discussion with my senior bankers about this? Any advice that you can offer would be much appreciated. Thank you.
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