3 BB NYC Offers - Help me pick ?

hashbrown's picture
Rank: Chimp | 5

Three offers are outstanding at the moment.

Citigroup IBD NYC - group determined next year (I heard there's only like 1-2 M&A spot next year so I know for sure I wont get it). Very likely getting a coverage group like healthcare or something.

Barclays Capital IBD NYC - group determined next year

BAML IBD NYC - I recently recieved a group specific offer (please do not ask which group as it would disclose who I am...not many got called). The group is an avg coverage group (just imagine it being in the middle among all the BAML coverage groups in terms of exits/reputation)

I have almost no networks with all 3 banks and I want to maximize my chances of getting to good PE. My main concern with BAML and Citi is that they have a seperate M&A group which takes away a lot of the good experience. What do you guys think?

Comments (48)

Oct 20, 2010

Absolutely no difference between all 3 and that is probably the best advice you will get.

If you like Industrials, Energy or Comm, go for Citi
If you like Nat gas or Energy or FIG, go for Barcap

Most coverage groups at Citi are strong and do their own modeling (Industrials definitely) and of course Barcap does it all since there's no M&A group.

Because you don't get to choose for BAML, depends on that group due to your own preferences.

Congrats on all 3.

Oct 20, 2010

agree with boutique... all are good opps, don't forget to factor in how you liked/disliked the group you know you would definitely be working in should you take the group specific offer... i'm pretty sure you'll get good opportunity to take on m&a transactions at all the banks regardless of not being in the m&a group... pick the one where you liked the fit the best and congrats on having a very successful recruiting season as i can attest it was a lot thinner than i expected it to be so you made out well

Oct 20, 2010

Go to the place you like. All 3 of these will get you to wherever you need to be.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

Oct 20, 2010

All are very good opportunities - trying to pick between them is going to descend quickly into senseless "rank this bank" territory. The far larger differentiator is industry group. If you are really interested in the BAML industry group your offer is for, and you like the team there - take it. If you don't, go with one of the other two.

Oct 20, 2010

Best piece of advice I can give you is choose based on group culture, people and industry interest. If you have actual interest in the industry pertaining to your baml offer, then that's a definite advantage over the others. If you don't have any interest in that industry, then I'd say base it on the group's people and culture.

FYI, as a coverage banker, you can get just as much modeling exposure as M&A bankers, much of it is determined by how proactive you are. Coverage bankers get a well-rounded skill-set, with plenty of exposure to modeling and technical analysis mixed with valuable business and strategy analysis.

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  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

Citi all the way. Best bank out of any of them. Has the best prospects from here on out of any of the BB

Oct 20, 2010

Just remember that some comments come from those of us who are actually in banking, while most (i.e. above) come from college kids who don't know what the they are talking about. Remember that.

Oct 20, 2010
youngblood:

Just remember that some comments come from those of us who are actually in banking, while most (i.e. above) come from college kids who don't know what the they are talking about. Remember that.

Quoted for emphasis.

You have access to more information about your personal goals, your personal preferences, your prospective group mates, and the other details of your options, than any of us here. All I can say is for your sake I hope you have the self-confidence to ignore the opinions and guesses of people who haven't even graduated yet, and to choose the option that suits you, your interests, your preferences. What some college kids think they know about rankings, groups, and "outlook going forward" is totally irrelevant to your decision.

Oct 20, 2010

Go with any of them but if you are indifferent then go to Citi, they are expanding and very international and strong in leagues.

Oct 20, 2010

Do you guys work for citi or something? seems like cheerleaders lol

Oct 20, 2010

It seems like most people are saying it depends on you. Do you not read youngblood, CaptK or my posts? Why ask a question if u dont like the answers or ignore them. oh i see you are a new account, probably troll.

Oct 20, 2010

all else being equal, barcap

Oct 20, 2010

Some free advice -- listen to those of us who are actually working in this industry.

Oct 20, 2010

barcap sucks, they are firing

Oct 20, 2010

Though I have no experience working at any of these places, I'd say don't go with BAML. I've noticed people don't have respect for it as much internationally, and if you want to go into PE you may want to venture outside the US to europe, asia or whatever...

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

Citi has excellent foreign growth in Latin America as well as exposure to the international markets. While others do as well, they have solid leadership, so that is or when things go sour domestically, they can rely on their foreign market presence to power growth. BAML is going through a crisis and just cut about 5% of their global markets and banking group, and may have to downsize even more with their actions in the news.

Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

Citi has excellent foreign growth in Latin America as well as exposure to the international markets. While others do as well, they have solid leadership, so that is or when things go sour domestically, they can rely on their foreign market presence to power growth. BAML is going through a crisis and just cut about 5% of their global markets and banking group, and may have to downsize even more with their actions in the news.

Disregard this post. All three of these banks are doing very well. And no, BAML is most definitely not going through a crisis -- the IB business single handedly saved their earnings. The bank, along with the rest of those in question, is performing very well in this economy.

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010
youngblood:
eyelikecheese:

Citi has excellent foreign growth in Latin America as well as exposure to the international markets. While others do as well, they have solid leadership, so that is or when things go sour domestically, they can rely on their foreign market presence to power growth. BAML is going through a crisis and just cut about 5% of their global markets and banking group, and may have to downsize even more with their actions in the news.

Disregard this post. All three of these banks are doing very well. And no, BAML is most definitely not going through a crisis -- the IB business single handedly saved their earnings. The bank, along with the rest of those in question, are performing very well in this economy.

Why do you feel the need to totally disregard that advice man. If you don't think BAML is going through a crisis, check the news/industry brotha. NO, they aren't going bankrupt, but when your getting sued for 47B and being forced by the FED and Freddie Mac to repurchase loans, it will hurt your rep, and earnings..to what extent, who knows?

And its not just their IB division, its the Global Banking and Markets followed by their Commercial banking units that are savings them. Each of their consumer divisions is not doing well at all. I saw the 3Q earnings presentation as well as listened to the call. How can you disregard what I'm saying about Citi, as that is a fact.

Oct 21, 2010
youngblood:
eyelikecheese:

Citi has excellent foreign growth in Latin America as well as exposure to the international markets. While others do as well, they have solid leadership, so that is or when things go sour domestically, they can rely on their foreign market presence to power growth. BAML is going through a crisis and just cut about 5% of their global markets and banking group, and may have to downsize even more with their actions in the news.

Disregard this post. All three of these banks are doing very well. And no, BAML is most definitely not going through a crisis -- the IB business single handedly saved their earnings. The bank, along with the rest of those in question, is performing very well in this economy.

What single handedly saved their earnings for Q3 was reducing their reserves from losses by approx. $6B.

Oct 21, 2010

dup post, sorry.

Oct 20, 2010
Oct 20, 2010

It's simple, you are a college kid giving career advice based on NEWS. It pains me to see people actually make major life decisions based on faulty and illegitimate advice.

Are you fking kidding me? Making an IB offer decision based on repurchase of mortgages?? God forbid what you were saying about GS when they had their "crisis" a few months ago related to that well publicized lawsuit. And sorry dude, but I actually have credible knowledge pertaining to BAML's current IB business. Believe me, they are doing just fine.

Oct 24, 2010
youngblood:

It's simple, you are a college kid giving career advice based on NEWS. It pains me to see people actually make major life decisions based on faulty and illegitimate advice.

Are you fking kidding me? Making an IB offer decision based on repurchase of mortgages?? God forbid what you were saying about GS when they had their "crisis" a few months ago related to that well publicized lawsuit. And sorry dude, but I actually have credible knowledge pertaining to BAML's current IB business. Believe me, they are doing just fine.

STFU you fucking 1st year. you better stop posting before I give my boy Ramsey (now head of U.S. M&A) a call to fire your ass... you don't do any kind of real analysis besides making profiles and pie charts and I can outmodel your industry group sorry ass any day of the week..

btw, BAML had another round of layoff (direct source from analyst in the Industrials group) following its massare where 5% of all VPs and associates were laid off. It will continue to restructure its IB business and layoffs will happen here and there on a monthly basis. So if your MD reassured you that there will be no more casualties, either he is lying to you or his ass is unsafe...

I've worked with certain coverage groups at BAML and to be honest, they are no real value add... we loop BAML in most of the time for cheap financing (and will turn to JPM if you show us shitty terms) and management and boards don't really value their opinion.. so all that "modeling" you do results in absolutely nothing.

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

Are you not listening to anything I'm saying. I know you work in the IB of BAML man or else you wouldn't at least acknowledge what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about the IB business. I made a post praising them on Monday

I know all about their #1 and #2 in the league tables in levergaed loans, syndicates, high yield, investment grade. All I'm saying is the IMAGE of BAML is getting bruised. They have lost near 15Billion in market cap over the past few days, and this crisis will weigh on them as well as the sector until it is resolved, pending any further findings that is. Get off of BAML's nuts and form a unbiased opinion and don't base it off of the isolated division you work in.

Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

Are you not listening to anything I'm saying. I know you work in the IB of BAML man or else you wouldn't at least acknowledge what I'm saying. I didn't say anything about the IB business. I made a post praising them on Monday

I know all about their #1 and #2 in the league tables in levergaed loans, syndicates, high yield, investment grade. All I'm saying is the IMAGE of BAML is getting bruised. They have lost near 15Billion in market cap over the past few days, and this crisis will weigh on them as well as the sector until it is resolved, pending any further findings that is. Get off of BAML's nuts and form a unbiased opinion and don't base it off of the isolated division you work in.

  1. Trust me, I don't have any personal attachment to baml
  2. There's a reason I'm simply referring to the "isolated division" of investment banking...because that is exactly what is relevant for a prospective IB analyst, not whether or not Fast Money believes it is a pop or drop
  3. The marginal and unbelievably retarded perception of "image" is almost entirely insignificant when determining whether or not you should accept an IB offer. CNBC and Larry Kudlow should be the furthest thing from a person's mind when weighing their options as they pertain to bulge bracket IB offers -- what matters most is deal flow, group culture, people and personal interest -- that's it.
  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

As I mentioned, they already laid off 5% of their workforce in global markets and laid off 30 prop traders. Are you going to recognize that this is FACT and acknowlege this, or just blow it off because you have no rebuttal? And 550 million is a lot different than 46Billion. I'm not saying their going bankrupt or anything because of this All I'm saying is they just laid off people after a solid quarter/year of earnings. What are they going to do when they have to foot that bill and this damages their earnings, keep hiring?

Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

As I mentioned, they already laid off 5% of their workforce in global markets and laid off 30 prop traders. Are you going to recognize that this is FACT and acknowlege this, or just blow it off because you have no rebuttal? And 550 million is a lot different than 46Billion. I'm not saying their going bankrupt or anything because of this All I'm saying is they just laid off people after a solid quarter/year of earnings. What are they going to do when they have to foot that bill and this damages their earnings, keep hiring?

5% layoff at BAML from all insiders I spoke with had to do with dropping low hanging fruit; and this was across several groups (GE/GS have a similar policy). Talk to an insider, and I am sure you would get some color.

Every firm is laying off prop traders, this has to do with Basel and financial reform, a quick google news search should clarify that (a ton of news around PE firms and UBS (in the context of creating new hedge funds) picking up GS/JPM traders).

No question that any lawsuit creates headwinds, however most of what I have read on this relates more to diligence being done on the mortgages. Additionally, as people are learning more about the lawsuit it is apparent that most believe it is not catastrophic.

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

1.Who the heck is Larry Kudlow?

2.The division is called Global Markets and Banking, my friend. When they start laying off people, its division wide, then more specifically exact roles.

  1. We can argue about your number 3 point for days, as I see where you coming from, but you also have to acknowledge that trust and perception is what brings in the deals and what entices clients to your business.
  2. Ok now I've agreed with you and said job well done. Can you please, for the sake of my feelings, acknowledge that they have laid off the workforce when earnings WERE solid? This is a fact man..a fact!!!

All I'm saying is, after they had a good quarter, and laid off 5%, what happens when they have to revise estimates on profitability from losses on their bs/is and start to shed some extra fat?

  1. You never mentioned the FACTS I laid out about Citi pertaining to their international exposure in emerging markets and Latin America.
Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

1.Who the heck is Larry Kudlow?

2.The division is called Global Markets and Banking, my friend. When they start laying off people, its division wide, then more specifically exact roles.

  1. We can argue about your number 3 point for days, as I see where you coming from, but you also have to acknowledge that trust and perception is what brings in the deals and what entices clients to your business.
  2. Ok now I've agreed with you and said job well done. Can you please, for the sake of my feelings, acknowledge that they have laid off the workforce when earnings WERE solid? This is a fact man..a fact!!!

All I'm saying is, after they had a good quarter, and laid off 5%, what happens when they have to revise estimates on profitability from losses on their bs/is and start to shed some extra fat?

  1. You never mentioned the FACTS I laid out about Citi pertaining to their international exposure in emerging markets and Latin America.

Okay, if you want to get granular...

  1. At baml, it's Global Corporate and Investment Banking, not Global Markets and Banking.
  2. Layoffs in IB were very minimal at baml, akin to GS's annual cutback. And I'm sorry but you are making a faulty assumption on correlation. The small cutback is a function of the deceleration in the Trading, Capital Markets and IB businesses as they related to projected growth -- which is mostly a result of economic conditions.
  3. I don't give a shit about Citi's LatAm prospects -- because they are irrelevant in relation to my career prospects going forward, and chances are, the same rings true for this kid.
Oct 20, 2010

eyelikecheese,

you seem to feel much more defensive about citi than youngblood feels about BAML..

Do you work at Citi GTS?

Oct 20, 2010

*doublepost

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

Not at all man. Citi rejected me time and time again..haha

I'm not really sure, I just like to throw out facts about what they are doing, which someone seem not to get recognized by someone that is trying to discredit me. They are solid in the league tables, good in public finance issuances previously and they have cleaned up their act after being on the brink as of lately. I like their investments in Latin America, which is a nice source of income, especially as the M&A/capital issuance is set to explode in emerging markets, and just international in general. They are in a solid position to benefit from this, not the best, per se, but definitely solid.

Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

Not at all man. Citi rejected me time and time again..haha

I'm not really sure, I just like to throw out facts about what they are doing, which someone seem not to get recognized by someone that is trying to discredit me. They are solid in the league tables, good in public finance issuances previously and they have cleaned up their act after being on the brink as of lately. I like their investments in Latin America, which is a nice source of income, especially as the M&A/capital issuance is set to explode in emerging markets, and just international in general. They are in a solid position to benefit from this, not the best, per se, but definitely solid.

Dude, go buy their stock then. But don't steer a kid towards their employment because you think they have a reasonable platform for international growth and because their cash EPS will be accretive by $.02 next quarter. Come on dude.

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 20, 2010

1.Man, the business division is global markets and banking, like I've been saying. Why split hairs with me?

  1. Doesn't dignify a response
  2. I mentioned its international exposure, because US markets, depending on your view, is not going to be the main driver of profitability and growth from here on out. A solid presence in other markets gives your potentially more exposure to other countries, as well a cushion from layoffs if domestic earnings suck

Youngblood, lets agree to disagree. Maybe discuss this matter over a few beers one day. I could care less about either firm, as I have no vested interest in either. So I can find many reasons to bash each, and just as many to praise each.

Oct 20, 2010
eyelikecheese:

1.Man, the business division is global markets and banking, like I've been saying. Why split hairs with me?

  1. Doesn't dignify a response
  2. I mentioned its international exposure, because US markets, depending on your view, is not going to be the main driver of profitability and growth from here on out. A solid presence in other markets gives your potentially more exposure to other countries, as well a cushion from layoffs if domestic earnings suck

Youngblood, lets agree to disagree. Maybe discuss this matter over a few beers one day. I could care less about either firm, as I have no vested interest in either. So I can find many reasons to bash each, and just as many to praise each.

  1. Wrong, it's Global Corporate and Investment Banking...trust me pal
  2. Fine with me
  3. This is only relevant to Tom Montag, not a NYC based investment banking analyst, sorry. You are simply getting caught up in minutia

Sure, we can agree to disagree.

Oct 21, 2010

Actually I think BAML's IBD is called Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith ;)

Oct 21, 2010

eyelikecheese, please stop giving totally worthless and potentially damaging advice to someone who's trying to make an important decision. how BAC stock does in the market is almost completely irrelevant to OP's decision, as is Citi's LatAm expansion.

  • eyelikecheese
  •  Oct 21, 2010

Full disclosure.

I sit around and eat nothing but cheese all day long. The piece. Has increases dramatically over the year and I'm a little antsy, and uninformed

Oct 21, 2010

Go for Citi.

Oct 22, 2010

Uh nohomo, that site shows ubs last by the way.

Oct 22, 2010
boutiquebank4life:

Uh nohomo, that site shows ubs last by the way.

M&A, bro.

Oct 22, 2010

Either way, I dont' see why people have to make this a possible 2 page thread when it's very obvious my first post explains it all.

THERE'S NO RIGHT ANSWER, STOP RANKING BANKS.

Oct 22, 2010

Agree w BoutiqueBank4Life

Oct 22, 2010
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