Title Says All
This post could be considered a public opinion poll, of WallStreetOasis users.
The response to my own website was mixed (to put it gently).
I am curious as to how WSO users respond to works covering Machiavellianism (euphemistically called 'People Skills')
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Honestly not a fan/don't feel comfortable with those tactics. IMO there are many ways to succeed like I follow the tactics from the book I read this summer "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
Just another self help book
Most people read it for life lessons, but I find it a very a fascinating book on history and human nature.
Agreed. Really enjoyed the historical anecdotes more than anything else.
I read it to become BASED and REDPILLED
...What?
Y´know, based. Like, owning the libs and stuff.
I think there's nothing wrong with people reading it and finding advice helpful to them but I think, frankly, it falls under the umbrella of cringe "alpha male" shit. Business and relationships are complicated and you're trying to apply un-nuanced -isms to it. To be honest, I think even that's giving it more credit than it deserves, some of the rules are just bad advice.
I’ve benefited (got to where I’m at not by pure accident) and had my wings clipped (could have gone farther just on talent and work ethic) because of the laws of power. Although I never read the book “48 laws of power” I think it and Corporate Machiavelli (CM) will be one of the takeaways that will guide some of my parenting (meaning I espouse these lessons as important so much so that I want my kids to learn).
I grew up in a dominant culture (Hawaii) that generally rejected narcissism and got plopped into a shark tank (large city) and had to survive. It was difficult at first. Part of my problem was, I stayed myself; and had to learn, often the hard way, how to find a place for myself. I think books like 48 Laws of Power should be required reading for people like that for soft skills development.
Books like How to Win Friends... I’ve achieved high likability, that came naturally with competence and kindness. However, that might only affirm strengths that you might have (or not). 48 Laws of Power helps put it all together.
The point is, read and learn as many perspectives as possible.
Note: I shortened the explanation for better clarity
wtf does this mean
Glad you asked since many of you would not know. I grew up in Hawaii and it is a mix of eastern (Asian) and western (US mainland) culture along with Polynesian. Many people there are descendants of sugar and plantation workers that came from Japan, Philippines, Portugal. Others came in successive waves for whatever reason, escaping war, the Jet Age, military deployment, etc. Anyways, Hawaii’s culture has and currently still has unique norms, including in business (although has changed a lot over past decades with Mainland ownership of more and more businesses). Foremost is a greater sense of group vs individualist values. When I say I grew up being the farthest from being a narcissist, is that I was always taught to be humble, to be helpful, and truthful. In public school, back then, the guys who ran their mouth were disliked and met with negative reinforcement (ostracized or at worst beaten up). My parents reinforced these norms at home. My dad once told me about how a guy with a Harvard degree who thought he was hot shit at work, that he wouldn’t be liked and things ended up not working out (not sure if that was a hypothetical, but the message was made to me).
After college (Univ of Hawaii) I got a job in San Francisco at a large company and the adjustment to being more vocal of my wants, more of a taker ran counter to many of my prior values. I put off changing, instead of relying on some talent and work ethic advantages I had, but eventually I had to change as I increased in title or be pushed out. Books that show the darker side or unspoken side of corporate culture would have helped me earlier on, although hard knocks can be the best lessons as long as I could reinvent and get back up. I’ve worked with many a narcissist, borderline personality disorder, unethical crook who went to jail, and maybe even a Machiavellian or two.
Books I read in my last semester in college, the summer, and within the first year of working were to prep for a finance career. These were books I picked without having a resource like WSO (although I was on TheVault, don’t think it influenced my book choices):
- Think and Grow Rich
- How to Win Friends and Influence People
- Barbarians at the Gate
- Term Sheets and Valuations
I later read Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion
In retrospect, a book like 48 Laws of Power or the free writings by Corporate Machiavelli would have helped prepare me for a weakness of mine in power strategy. Not to follow it literally, but to be conscious of my choices and the choices of others. When I read Corporate Machiavelli this weekend, it made me think of past experiences, patterns and predictability. I’ve taken Myers Briggs and other personality tests, and aside from some hokey facts (wow this test really knows me), I found it lacking how I could apply such knowledge about myself in a proactive way to adjust.
I “suffer” from being “too nice”. It’s led to a great family, health, and positive outlook even within stressful times. I’ve earned the trust of others in business. My experience/methodologies as an investor (trust but verify, lack of emotions input/objectivity, reliance on data, willingness to walk/fight) and planning and enforcement of legal/contracts that limit how much I can be taken advantage of despite my niceness. What I’m saying is the industry rubbed off on me, while I could still be myself, but all in all I lost out on opportunities for advancement because I didn’t embrace power strategy far enough. This was all learned via experience and tested the hard way. A book early on would have been great to read. Might not have been a substitute for experience but may have helped me identify patterns. Therefore, solid read.
Monty Burns has been killing it in the comments recently
I would say have mercy because he has a family, but we both know that's not true.
some of the laws directly contradict each other.
I read it years ago. some good points like crush your enemy totally.
I read the 50th law as well.
honestly id just follow the 48 laws bot on twitter.
"some of the laws directly contradict each other"
The laws are *heurustics*; general guidelines.
You need to have the intelligence to judge which laws do and do not apply in the situation you are currently face.
This should have been obvious.
I know that you fucking autiste. Theres 48 to chose from, how is that practical?
It's a great book and Greene is extremely smart. the people who are upset by the ethics of the book are missing the point. Greene is simply describing reality as he sees it, a lot of the laws in the book are definitely unethical, but a lot of them also WORK. theres a reason the book is the most requested book in prison. whether you want to use them is up to you, but by simply understanding the laws you can see the games other people might be trying to play and defend yourself.
Thank You
For Not Being Delusionally Naive
A book that creates more incels/wannabe Don Drapers than anything else.
Actually doing this is the corporate equivalent to naruto running
In the process of reading the book, it's just meh so far. Personally, I've gained a lot of insight into corp startegy and maintaining relationships by reading military campaign journals.
Fascinating reply, this sounds super unique. Can you share any specifics or recommendations?
Xenophon will teach you the most about oration, rhetoric, leadership, human resources administration, and relationships. I would start with Anabasis by Xenophon. Also the other books are mentioned below in the thread.
Also interested.
As you read the journals/battles, ask yourself, how does this apply to me and my environment? Admittedly, it took me a lot longer than I would like to admit before I started drawing parallels and actively applying concepts, but it started happening. Been reading everything I can get my hands on ever since. Enjoy fellas!
Books:
The Red Fighter Pilot (Red Baron)
Napoleon’s Campaigns in Italy
Memoirs of Faber du Faur
Napoleon’s Egyptian Campaigns
The Journal of Major George Washington
The Lost Book of Alexander the Great
Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome
Commentarii de Bello Gallico (Gallic Wars)
The State and Empire of Qin (Consolidation of China under Qin)
The Last Days of the Assyrian Empire (General Piankhi of the Kingdom of Kush)
Events:
First & Second Franco-Mexican War
Franco-Prussia War
Tudor Conquest of Ireland
Papal Monarchy Middle Ages (interplay between Pope and King)
Most people here obviously haven't read the book ... there's a reason they ban 48 Laws of Power from prison libraries and not How To Win Friends and Influence People
Also, if you work in banking, and compare how the senior bankers operate vs principals in the book you will see the similarities
Yeah that because the 48 laws of power make people too POWERFUL and ALPHA and they don't want prisoners gaining the powers of Robert Greene and busting through prison walls like the Kool-aid man
Confirmed retard
I think everyone should read it, but not as a how-to book. If you're reading to learn how to become all rich and powerful you're probably a psychopath anyway.
I think of it more as a "here is what psychopaths do to climb the ladder in life. Be aware of these things and you won't be taken advantage of as easily."
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