Making the first move as a woman?

So I am more than comfortable making the first move as a woman. However, I don't know if it's me, it just always seems that when I make the move (could be anything from being the first one to text/ asking to meet up/ giving attention to a dude), it seems like it gets to most men's heads and they start thinking "omg this girl and so many others like me and want to pursue me. I am the best thing that has happened to the world." They play hard to get: they'll lead you on but it doesn't seem genuine. 

I am not scared of taking initiative but I don't like being in this scenario either ^. Since most people here are guys, do you like it when women make the first move? Also if a girl makes the first move and you kind of feel the same way, what do you do? 

Comments (69)

 
  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Ind
Oct 18, 2020 - 8:48pm

I wouldn't mind if a girl made the first move, it just doesn't happened to me though, haha. I'd like to think that I'd be receptive to it, and that I would treat it like if I made a move on a girl, then go from there. 

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 9:11pm

girls making the first move should be more subtle....bat your eyelashes, flip your hair, smile look away, then look back and smile again and then look down like your are embarrassed getting caught making eye contact.  men like to chase (a little)....but we also like an invitation...not 100%....but something...

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 18, 2020 - 10:07pm

Okay I get being subtle but  ".bat your eyelashes, flip your hair, smile look away, then look back and smile again and then look down like your are embarrassed getting caught making eye contact.  men like to chase (a little)"...I don't think anyone does that kind of stuff in real life. sounds like a cheap porn movie...come on guys 

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 9:44pm

I personally don't find it weird when women make the first move. Tbh, something like 70% women I dated or hooked up with approached me first. Maybe it's just me growing up around assertive women, but I do appreciate it when women know what they want and can express themselves without being aggressive or upfront (Art of subtlety).

However, I don't know if it's me, it just always seems that when I make the move (could be anything from being the first one to text/ asking to meet up/ giving attention to a dude), it seems like it gets to most men's heads and they start thinking "omg this girl and so many others like me and want to pursue me. I am the best thing that has happened to the world."

Very likely. Sorry to break it to you, but you might be targeting the wrong guys (immature and unexperienced or just narcissistic).

They play hard to get: they'll lead you on but it doesn't seem genuine. 

Let's be real. They might be just uninterested and trying to be nice. It's not just girls who do this. Or they might just be unfamiliar with the situation or just plain shy.

If you play your cards right, you'll be able to figure out which is which. Make them feel comfortable, get them to talk about themselves, etc... If they are still playing hard to get, then they are just uninterested or making mistakes themselves. If so, just move on. Otherwise, maybe you can bring someone home or arrange a date/get him to arrange a date.

 

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 18, 2020 - 10:14pm

Thank you! I do think that I have been targeting the wrong kind (God knows how that happened). It's been hard to meet good guys. Also like you said, it's hard to figure out some times if the person is shy or just uninterested (a lot of guys seem to lead women on even when they're uninterested, just for the sake of it) 

 
Oct 19, 2020 - 9:03pm

i dated over 100 women in the 1-2 years before meeting my wife (not gonna lie...the process was a lot of fun)...there is no shortcut...you just got to jump in and date  A LOT of people...many people have a guard up and you never get to know their true colors until after dating...so you must date multiple people simultaenously (and be upfront about it by saying "i'm single...so i date"). Otherwise there is not enough time to date all the people you'll need to wade thru, to meet "the one"

 

Until you have "the conversation" where you both agree to be monogamous...you are not, and should not be, monogamous.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 10:19pm

A few girls have done this with me. I don't play hard to get though, if she's cool we just take it from there. More often than not, it's me who goes up to them lol. I should add, and maybe this is just me, I don't like when a girl acts super shy for no reason - it's a bit too dramatic. Being straightforward about what you want is, IMO, more attractive quality in a woman.

The main thing about money, Bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do.

 
  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Oct 18, 2020 - 10:22pm

Anecdotally speaking, women seem to get a lot more compliments and attention than men. Genuine compliments are few and far between and we remember them which isn't necessarily the same for women. This might be the product of a culture of men making the first move and courting women instead of the other way around. When a woman I like does make the move first (texting first, asking to meet up, giving me attention, complimenting me), it feels really nice because those moments tend to be few and far between. Some men might react to that in the way you described, but that's not been the case for me. If a woman shows me a little attention, that's probably all it takes and I'm head over heels for her.

 

Idk maybe I'm just a simp. Gotta stop watching porn.

 
Oct 18, 2020 - 11:14pm

Just a data point: my wife started talking to me and got my number. Then we started going out and eventually got married.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
 
Oct 18, 2020 - 11:14pm

Just a data point: my wife started talking to me and got my number. Then we started going out and eventually got married.

“The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary.” - Nassim Taleb
 
Oct 19, 2020 - 8:50pm

Personally, I like women making the moves these days. I'm paranoid that a girl will lose her shit and accuse me or something just for trying to make a move. Note, never been in this situation, and I've been told I don't look like a creep at all, but I've heard stories.

I've worked too hard to be where I am, I have other people counting on me, AND, I have much higher places I want to go, so can never be too careful. 

Also, may sound shallow, but how do you rate yourself in the looks department? Can't imagine you having to make first moves if you're 11/10. Plus, most guys (including married one) being so thirsty all the time, can't imagine most would risk playing "hard to get".

 
  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 19, 2020 - 2:45am

Game theory it. What type guy do YOU want? Do you like guys that are a bit more timid or shy that will require you to make the first move? Or the more traditional masculine figure who wants you to be submissive? There is no right answer here, but like Kenny Cosgrove said "let them know what type of guy you are and they'll know what type of girl to be". you are in the driver's seat here and can use this as a dating filter.

 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 19, 2020 - 10:48am

somewhere in the middle is usually good? I like confident people but also don't want an alpha chauvinistic male who'll think that he's the boss of me lol. I have been attracted to both shy and outgoing people in the past. There are other things that matter more to me than this

 
Controversial
Oct 19, 2020 - 7:11am

In all seriousness, a lady should maintain a dignified reserve. We are men (predators), let us hunt and earn our feast. 

"Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes." -U.S. Navy General Farragut
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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 19, 2020 - 10:53am

Yea sure why not. I've been in one serious relationship. We were both sophomores in college and we'd pay equally for everything because just didn't have enough money back then ahah. Completely okay with paying equally on dates and paying for the first date if I asked the guy out. There was one instance where I asked the dude out and he refused to let me pay on the first date which was sweet but I don't mind either way 

 
Oct 19, 2020 - 9:57am

Also depends on what kind of relationship you want. If you just want to perform the "beast with two backs", being extremely direct is probably a time saver and a more surefire way of getting laid. If you're wanting a long-term relationship, I would be less direct about it and just be more subtle as they're alluding to. Also, if you're not too direct and he has to work for it a little bit I think that's more intoxicating for guys and frankly may spare their egos a bit.

If you haven't noticed through many of the posts here, straight guys at least are a lower level of organism in complexity and constantly wants to pursue fucking or killing in some form or fashion. For example, instead of killing one another with our hands or blunt objects, many of the folks here compete by trying to best each other through professional competition and performance. They feel more of a high from working a little to secure the sex and its more of an accomplishment than if you just spread your legs after saying, "Hello". I think the guy would appreciate you more if he has to work for it a little ... plus you weed out the plethora of tinder pounding guys who just care about putting up numbers vs a real relationship.

 
Oct 19, 2020 - 9:57am

Also depends on what kind of relationship you want. If you just want to perform the "beast with two backs", being extremely direct is probably a time saver and a more surefire way of getting laid. If you're wanting a long-term relationship, I would be less direct about it and just be more subtle as they're alluding to. Also, if you're not too direct and he has to work for it a little bit I think that's more intoxicating for guys and frankly may spare their egos a bit.

If you haven't noticed through many of the posts here, straight guys at least are a lower level of organism in complexity and constantly wants to pursue fucking or killing in some form or fashion. For example, instead of killing one another with our hands or blunt objects, many of the folks here compete by trying to best each other through professional competition and performance. They feel more of a high from working a little to secure the sex and its more of an accomplishment than if you just spread your legs after saying, "Hello". I think the guy would appreciate you more if he has to work for it a little ... plus you weed out the plethora of tinder pounding guys who just care about putting up numbers vs a real relationship.

 
  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Oct 19, 2020 - 11:31am

I personally prefer confident women who aren't afraid to make the first move. I generally don't waste my time with women who sit around waiting for the guy to do everything, dropping hints and all that other nonsense, dating like they're still in high school. Based on your experience it seems like a pretty good way to weed out the shitty guys who just want to play games. Men who are confident in themselves aren't going to think twice about a girl making the first move, it'll either be perceived as a good thing (guys who like confident women) or won't even register either way.

 
  • Analyst 3+ in RE - Comm
Oct 19, 2020 - 7:37pm

I have no problems if a woman makes a first move. It's certainly assertive and can be very attractive. I'm sorry some of these guys are leading you on to nothing. They're just immature. If they're a real grown-ass man, they'd let you down gently or subtly if they're not interested in you. I will say though, women and men flirt differently. Not all men pick up on the moves women make. I've been totally oblivious at times when a woman was flirting with me to only think she was being "nice".

 
Oct 19, 2020 - 8:42pm

As a guy I never expect it but am always very pleasantly surprised when it happens. There is also a difference with me between the "wanna hook up?" first move and the more subtle one. I tend to be an oblivious idiot, pretty in line with most of my friends, so at least in my case some sense of direction is helpful. I tend to associate these kind of scenarios with bars and nightlife because outside of working too much, that is basically all I do, unless you wanna like drop in warzone together sometime. I think there is like a meme about guys being oblivious but in my case its a fact, and making a position clear will never lose you points in my book. I'm on point with flirting and romance once I know what is going on, but ahead of that, I am a bit clumsy with it and if I can't read your signals, it may just be a long conversation that goes nowhere. Again, I associate this with bars and being kinda tipsy, so that is probably a factor. Idk where I'm going with this, but in short, I gotta do more stuff.

To talk to your point about getting mens wires twisted up when you make the move, a good trait on my end is that I'm not usually like that because I usually can't tell like a fuckin dunce and tend to be friendly and personable to everyone I meet. But I also have friends who genuinely think every girl that talks to them likes them until proven otherwise, so this is a really thing to be aware of. You're not wrong.

There also is the fact that some guys just may not be interested or might not want to go for it. There was a girl I hooked up with in the past who (later found out drunk texted) texted me like 2 days ago about doing just that and I really just wasn't feeling it. No fault of her own, but I knew I was moving back to manhattan and just like didn't really want to bother. Maybe its because of that, or because I thought she might like me but knew I would be hours away and prioritizing work, or maybe I just wanted to chill. I'm not good at handling those situations so I just continued drinking with my close friends I hadn't seen in a long time and responded at like 4am.  Kinda felt like a dick but its whatever. Never got a reply, honestly fine with it. That night was for my buddies. 

Idk if any of this helps, but this is my long winded take.

Dayman?
 
  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 20, 2020 - 2:10pm

hahahha the first part made me laugh so much. I get it: some times you don't pick up on flirting. So would it help if women are more explicit? A lot of people above said that it's good to be more subtle. Also I have never gone up to anyone in a bar. Not into one night stands etc. I meant more like asking out someone that I already know (an acquaintance, friend of a friend) out on a date or not even calling it a date but asking them if they want to meet lol just to get to know them better 

 
Oct 20, 2020 - 2:41pm

From my very limited experience, it seems like reading if a guy is into you isn't the hardest challenge in the world. My best example is a friend from high school who I was just friends with in 9th grade, really started to like in 10th grade, and was infatuated with in 11th grade. In an adorable turn of events, she was down to just hang out one on one a lot and when I finally made the move, she was like "i knew you liked me for ages, the way you look at me gives it away." So like in that case, I was totally smitten by her and life dealt me a royal flush (we broke up at end of high school but are still friends and I'm happy with that). But before digressing too much, I have gotten that "way you look at me" comment again since then, so I guess I give it away just by my eyes when it is someone I actually really like rather than want to hook up with. 

Regarding helping guys read signals better, I think it is really case by case. My HS girlfriend said she was into me for almost as long as I was into her but she didn't want to make the first move for no real reason other than she didn't (her words lol). My taking so long was clearly a factor of me basically being Ray Charles when it comes to reading signals. Right before I opened up about it, I was able to tell she was into it too, but her signals were basically atomic bombs so it was hard to miss. 

One thing to note about girls leading, is that if a guy isn't into you, it could like really hurt the friendship/relationship. This isn't the case with me or many of my friends, but it is definitely something I've seen happen. Like a girl asks a guy out or to fuck or whatever, and the guy says no, and like friendship comes to a dead fucking stop. I think this ties back to the "i think every girl likes me until proven otherwise" comment I made earlier, but to a higher degree. I don't think those guys are dicks, but rather just a little less mature where they would let that ruin a friendship or relationship. I think reading into their maturity ahead of time isnt the worst move. Idk how much this matters to you since you said friend-of-a-friend, but I felt I should mention it. If he isn't up to the standard level of maturity needed to form relationships, could make interactions down the road more awkward if he isn't into it. Not trying to freak you out, but this is an unfortunate reality that a girl friend of mine once complained to me about for like hours after it happened to her.

Dayman?
 
Oct 20, 2020 - 2:43pm

if a girl wanted to ask out somebody you know, as a girl, the "better" method is to make the guy know you are interested...give him the green light...flirt and be obvious...very obvious...but ultimately make "him" be the one who makes "the move" asks you on a date (the 2nd or 3rd move).  You already made the first move by signaling your availability and interest...but if the guy doesn't ultimately make a move of his own...its because he's not interested....even if he'll take the "free easy sex"...but that might be as far as it goes.

 
Oct 19, 2020 - 10:56pm

I'm fine with women approaching me; unfortunately most get rejected. Then I'm the bad guy. 

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

 
Oct 20, 2020 - 2:50pm

If you're making the first move, then you need to follow up with date plans. When women have been forward with me, what determined whether things went their way was whether or not they shepherded me into doing something with them. Like you said, only expressing interest risks only feeding the guy's ego or other unproductive out comes. 

If your the pursuer, you should first express your interest, get a positive response, then have actionable plans to whisk the guy away for a date. "Date" doesn't have to be anything big; a coffee, a casual lunch, a casual dinner, etc. will do. The rest should unfold naturally.

If this seems like a lot of work, that's just the burden of the first mover. 

 
Oct 20, 2020 - 5:12pm

Every single time a girl has made the first move on me it always ended up with her just wanting attention and leading me on. Never has anything good come out of a woman making the first move on me. But that's just my experience and I wonder if other guys have ever had to deal with it. Could be that some guys get an ego boost from you making the first move, could also be guys being very weary because it's abnormal for a girl to make the first move.

 
Oct 21, 2020 - 3:42am

Given that you're a first-year analyst, I assume that the 'men' you're dating are in their early 20s. For most guys, they're still basically kids at that point. You can have a good job and an excellent resume but still be a child. That's not just true in your 20s. That can carry on for quite some time. Career success doesn't necessarily translate to emotional maturity. In fact, focusing too much on their careers can lead a lot of people to never develop the other aspects of their character that most people would recognize as 'maturity'. I know more C-suite and partner-level people in a wider range of industries internationally than most, and workaholism tends to have the same effects across sectors and borders.

If you're making the first move--that's fine. I've been hit on by a lot of women, and I like it. I like the attention. But I prefer the reverse scenario. Pursuing someone is part of the fun. Hitting on a stranger can be exhilarating. In my experience, most people bore the absolute fuck out of me, so I only like to get to know people up to a certain point. For most people, that's about 1-martini's worth of conversation. To be clear, I drink martinis quickly. If you can hold my attention, though, I wouldn't care if you made the first move or not.

That said, if by 'making the first move', you mean that you ask them out straight away, I'd suggest a slightly more nuanced tactic. Lunch, coffee and drinks are much more attractive options to me than dinner, a show, or something that requires a lot of one-on-one time together. The reason for this is simple--you can bail after a drink or two and that's fine. You can't do that at dinner without looking like a whole bag of dicks. That's why I strongly prefer grabbing drinks with clients instead of taking them to dinner. If they aren't especially interesting, I kind of want to get out of there. That's as true on a date as it is in any other sort of meeting. It's also why I respect salesmen a lot more than I used to. They have a tolerance for fake-niceness and bad conversation that I will simply never possess.

As for flirting without going the distance--I suppose that's a matter of personal choice. I've had women be extremely direct about simply wanting to fuck, and I'm not ashamed to say that I obliged almost every time. Why? Because I like to fuck. The handful of times I passed, I simply wasn't into them or I saw big repercussions where an inebriated romp wouldn't be worth the long-term bother. At the moment, fucking women at work is a complete no-no for me (as it probably should be for all the guys on this site). The truth is that fucking your coworkers is almost never worth it in the MeToo era, so if you're asking guys out from your office, maybe they see you as a walking HR nightmare? Or perhaps you're giving off too strong of a girlfriend vibe when the guys you're after just want to mess around? After too many years of having sex with women who were already part of my friend group, I generally think it's not worth the headache or wrecked relationships on the backend, so maybe the guys you're targeting are wiser than I was.

Finally--and it's an awkward point but worth addressing--are you equally attractive as the guys you're approaching? If you're aiming too high, that could obviously be the problem. Of course, they could just be inexperienced with women, insecure or uninterested. There isn't a general piece of advice that any guy can give about all other guys. At best, we can offer truisms about personal anecdotes or average men. 'Average' within my social circle is wildly variable. People have all types of different kinks even if they have very similar backgrounds and interests. Some guys are kind of prudes and some will fuck absolutely anything that moves. Some will appreciate a woman who takes initiative. Some will enjoy the chase too much to want to give it up. Some like fat chicks. Some like them model-skinny. Some like feisty women. Some like submissive women. Some want a woman who matches their ambitions with her own. Some just want a wife to raise their kids. It's honestly all over the place, so don't get discouraged if you've barked up the wrong tree a few times. Men have been doing this for eons. For most of us, the process sucks, but when it's successful, it's quite the feeling. 

 

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