I am a political science/economics double major with a 3.9+ GPA from a non-target for front-office jobs (heavy recruiting for things like operations, finance, etc). I have about a year's worth of interning in non-related industries. i have a year and a half left of school and it is time for me to really figure out how to break into the investment banking scene. So, I have a few questions:
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For summer analyst positions, should I apply for the analyst roles in the departments they recruit for at my school, or should I apply for the investment banking division and take the chance (or both - but would that seem like I don't really have direction...)?
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I have a really good paying internship at a small marketing company. Should I quit the job and try to get an internship (and my selling point will be working for free) at an investment bank (probably a boutique) next semester? Would the benefits of working such be worth the compensation lost? Is it possible to get semester internships? Any ideas where/how?
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My core is strictly liberal arts. No finance, accounting, etc. I have to do 6 (sometimes +) classes to complete the double, and the prereqs for those classes are a setback. Should I stay in school an extra semester so that I can take them? Is it worth it? If i just read books my friends give me from the classes, how can I show them on my resume that I'm competent in the areas?
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Are there any good books about investment banking? Just a thorough overview of practical knowledge in the field?
I know I just asked a lot of questions; you can just answer one or two if you'd like, but please offer some feedback. Those of you who have made it in the field are the only way that people like me can optimize our chances. I really appreciate it.
I am in New York.
don't need to work for free. the summer analyst programs are highly structured and most of them pay well.
read the vault guides to finance.
I would say apply for the analyst positions they recruit from at your school. With a 3.9 you have a good shot at getting a first round interview. Are the posting for your school very limited as far as groups? WHich groups do they hire from at your school?
If you are in NYC, you should try to get one of those co-op positions. Most people who are co-op interns are given internship offers, which eventually lead to full time employment.
To answer your first question, I would say both. It's important that you get your foot in the door to have a shot at IBD. Also, getting an op position for summer and interviewing for IBD at the end of the summer would not be as difficult as getting an IBD internship.
Yes, they are limited. GS recruits operations, finance, real-estate... most other firms recruit about the same. Operations seems the most interesting out of the groups, but I want to be dealing directly with the markets.
What are "those co-op positions"? Sorry if that's a stupid questions. What is it/what firms offer it/etc?
Thanks for your help.
First, what school do you go to? This is going to make a pretty big difference. If it's a school that no one has heard of (University of Southen Louisana (I'm not sure if this even is a school, but you get my drift)) then it's going to be pretty difficult. If you're at a school that people at least have heard of (like a state school etc.) then you have a chance given your high GPA and internship experience (even though it's non-finance related, any experience is good experience). Apply online for internships now. Recruiting for target school interns starts in January/February, but you want to get your stuff in as early as possible. Second, do you have any friends at target schools? This can be a huge asset. Have them send you the actual names and contact info of the recruiters. This info isn't particularly hard to get at a target school. Most banks have school specific recruiters, but they'll still read you resume if it's sent directly to them. They key is getting your resume directly to the recruiters (through e-mail), since I hear a lot of banks don't even bother to read online applications. If you have really good stats (as you apparently do) and you e-mail your info out to enough recruiters, you should have some luck. Follow up with a phone call about 2 weeks after you e-mail them you resume if you don't hear anything back. I helped my friend at a non-target get an ibanking internship this way. Make sure your friend(s) at target schools send you contact info for every bank that recruits at their school (including middle-market banks). Good luck.
I go to Baruch College. All the firms in NYC know the school, and as I said, it has heavy recruiting in back-office positions. I have friends at a lot of targets, but none of them are doing anything business/economics related. How would they find out information for the recruiters (because they are over at the NGO/NP interviews, not the banks)? What should I say in my e-mail? Simply that I am extremely interested in the position, etc and attach my resume in the first e-mail?
Are boutiques easier to get an internship at? If so, will the BB hold it as a con when I apply for a position? Is the department or the firm more important? Also, I have no acct/finance background. I read the ft and wsj daily, so I have an overview of the markets, but I don't know the details. Are vault guides enough?
Thanks a lot.
Vault guides are more than enough for internship/full time interviews given that you have no background in accounting/finance.
Co-op positions are internships arranged by schools for a semester or two. If your school has a business school, ask their career services whether they have it or not.
...work your alumni network. Baruch has alot of guys on the street, albeit most of them are from the "old school" as today it is not a target. I am sure you can find names and contact info for former baruch grads who work on wall st. at your career center.
tell your friends to look thru their interviewTRAK
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
I mean, I think a lot of Baruch guys come from the b-school (Zicklin, I believe), and it's definitely a tough route, but there is some history there so it could be done.
Also, I'm in NY myself and am certain that there are small boutiques that will take free interns. I know it isn't ideal to work for free and the work might be somewhat shitty, but it helps boost the resume. Good luck.
"To Know Me Is To Love Me"-Jebus Price
I am in the liberal arts school, but the BBA economics professors are the same. I opted for the BA route so that I could double major. Any recommendations for good boutiques to try?
Thanks a lot.
Just as Aspiringmonkey said, ask your friends to look at the job posting on their ___TRAK system (or whatever online system the school uses to allow students to apply for and sign up for interviews). Recruiters' names are often available on the job posting. Some recruiters choose to remain anonymous though, so another strategy is to ask your friends to just apply to the positions you'd be interested in. Usually when you're selected to interview or rejected from interviews, the recruiter sends an e-mail. So they can then decline the interview but get the recruiter's name. Another (probably better) strategy is to ask your friends at target schools to go to their career services office. I know the CS office at my school keeps lists of recruiters that we can access. I would imagine there is something similar employed at other target schools. And yet another strategy is to ask your friends at target schools to attend the banks' presentations and just ask for the recruiter names. Often, you get a promotional materials that list who your school's recruiters are anyway. The only catch is that only the BBs and top boutiques (Evercore, Greenhill, etc.) give presentations, so you'll need another strategy to get the middle market boutiques names.
Regarding good boutiques, there was a thread posted a while back with the names of banks besides the bulge brackets. Just look for that thread. It had a bunch of banks' names in it. If you apply online at a boutique's website, I bet you have a much, much better chance of having your resume actually read versus applying on a bulge bracket's website.
When you e-mail the recruiters, just write a short paragraph in the e-mail introducing yourself and saying that you're very interested in the position. Don't say where you got their name from. Then just say that you've attached your cover letter and resume. Your attached cover letter should be a formal cover letter (about 3/4 of a page long).
I don't see the point of reaching out to HR. They have 32490184018104 people pounding on their door, why should they care about another non-target kid with a 3.9?
Especially because you are in the city, start networking with BANKERS. Set up coffee, say you want to learn about their experiences, deals they've done, etc. You have a leg up on most of the non-target students simply because a meeting with these guys is a subway ride away.
The point is that if you have the HR person's actual name, you can e-mail (and follow up with a phone call) them directly, whereas if you submit your resume online, it falls into an endless void and from what I hear rarely gets read. By e-mailing the HR person, they're at least forced to click on your e-mail. Since most people from non-targets don't actually know HR's names (there is also high turnover in these positions), this can be a huge asset. Also, a lot of boutiques (good ones like Greenhill and middle-market ones) don't even have a way that you can apply online on their website. Thus, they get few applications besides those from the students at the target schools they recruit at. So, a kid from a decent school with a 3.9 GPA should have a shot here (maybe not at Greenhill but at least at the middle-markets). I think the poster will actually have a decent shot at the bulge brackets too given his high GPA.
That being said, you certainly shopuld apply online as well as e-mailing the recruiters. Just want to increase the chances of your resume getting looked at.
The advice about networking is good too. Alums that you call up know the main reason you're calling is to get them to forward your resume on to HR, so don't be super weird and coy about it. Tell them that you are really interested in banking and ask some good questions about banking AND explain to them that Baruch doesn't get much attention from IBs' banking divisions and if they have any ideas for how you should go about securing an internship.
But what is my pitch? Why should one of them waste time getting coffee with me? In short, how do I make the initial contact? through e-mail? And sell myself by talking about how interested in I am and how I would loev their insight and experiences in the industry?
Generally speaking, most bankers won't mind getting out of the office for 10-15 min to talk about themselves.
Your pitch is that you are interested in the industry and you want to learn more. This is a time for you to ask questions vs. try and pitch yourself. That being said, bankers aren't stupid. They will do the dance and answer the dumb questions if they think you're a decent guy. But be ready for the usual questions (Why IB? Why our bank? etc)...even early on, be ready to articulate why you want to meet with them. Emphasize that you are committed to the industry and you want to learn more.
Don't be needy, don't treat them like they are gods. Be polite, offer to buy their coffee, ask insightful questions and remain respectful. But trying too hard is going to make you look stupid.
First contact can be by e-mail or telephone, get comfortable with rejection, if you reach out to 25 people and get 3 replies, thats great progress.
Best of luck.
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