A Comprehensive List of Chop Shops
Equally as important as knowing which prop firms, HFs, etc are the best to work for is knowing which places qualify as what most would determine chop shops or scams. There are a few places that pop up on these boards as to who is basically making money off on naive, unemployed college grads, but since I have no personal experience dealing with this it is not my place to comment. If you have any experience with any firm as described above and don't mind sharing, please do so. I think it is in all of our interests to separate the good from the bad when looking for places to work. It's not worth breaking into trading if it is going to cost you $5k of your money up front which you will never get back, only to be broke, unemployed, and still trying to break in a few months later.
social security administration
^ along those lines IRS, FED and U.S Government
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It's an old tread, but most prop shops that offer training courses for a fee are chop shops. Back in England, these chop shops post their "jobs" (where employees pay) on eFinancialCareers. You would make more money by opening an account with your bank to trade stocks. You can't buy all stocks, but I know some who make $15K extra doing this (he is a full-time operation guy).
This could actually be a useful thread. I feel like a good rule of thumb is: If you have to pay, run away.
^^true for all internship really, I remember getting emails from something called Alpha Capital that would students pay money just to intern there.
northwestern mutual. Recruiters continue to call me about once every two weeks.
All of these chop shops share similar characteristics:
-You have to pay for training or put up your own capital. No legitimate job works this way. -You aren't paid a base salary. There are some firms (FNYS?) where you eventually move to being mostly paid off your P&L, but even they pay trainees something. -Usually focused on equity day trading where they claim their "proprietary training program" will give you the edge you need. If they really had an edge, would they sell it to guys off the street for $5k? -Almost all P&L is paid out to traders, but have high desk fees and execution costs. If they wanted their traders to succeed trading rather than just do a lot of trades until they burned out, wouldn't they want a bigger P&L cut? -Very individually focused. No concept of teams or common resources in the company. Every man for himself with leased software. -No or very lax employment requirements. Hiring primarily very inexperienced people: college kids, the unemployed, etc. -Spammy recruiting tactics like craigslist ads, mass linkedin mails, etc. -Pyramid scheme style sales tactics like bragging about how much the top traders make or saying it's a job where you can "create your own destiny." -Firm principals have a history of legal actions against them or opening and closing similar prop trading firms with no industry background or skill set that would make them effective traders or managers.
These guys primarily make their money by charging their traders high fees and from training programs. Some are fly-by-nights where the partners walk off with your capital deposit.
Legitimate prop trading firms pay a salary, offer free training, take a larger cut of your P&L, and have very stringent hiring policies. They make their money by hiring smart people who generate returns for the firm.
Certified Chop Shops (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)
I haven't seen a solid list of these firms on this site, so I decided to start this thread so no one squanders any more time answering their ads or posting threads questioning their legitimacy.
I'll start off: Scrier Funds LLLP Scrier Private Equity LLC
There are too many to name so the reason there is no list is that it's easier to discuss the legit firms
Not sure what Scrier did to you, but obviously it has ticked you off. Care to share?
I think there was a longer thread posted a few weeks back all about Scrier
Scrier got skewered on WSO a few months back.
That said, I made my bones in bona fide chop shops, so don't discount the opportunities they provide.
The firm I worked for in 1994 was rated #2 in IPO performance (returning an astounding 52% average over 16 deals) in 1993 by USA Today and we were a total chop shop.
You Ivy League pricks could learn a thing or two from the bucket shops.
Haha boom. Could you explain chop shops a little bit more?
blackmore partners so i've heard
Hermes Capital Advisors.
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