Trending Content
Career Resources
WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through
April 30, 2024
9 Free Financial Modeling Lessons
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
1996 -- $1.3mm 2002 -- $2.2mm 2010 -- ??
Jesus. At 40% income tax, $600k/year in alimony takes away half his earnings. Are there any tax implications of paying spousal support? None of my friends are married/divorced yet so this just seems fucking draconian
What person needs $25k (let alone $50k) to live? Spousal support and alimony for the rich is ridiculous. Why do the women (or men if the situation is reversed) deserve any of that money? If they co-sign for the LLC for their new company or something that different- they made an investment essentially. But being a housewife for 5 ears doesn't mean you should get $600k per year. I assume spousal support is tax deductible- or else he'd have like less than half of his earnings left- which is egregious. I understand why spouses hire hitmen instead of divorcing with settlements like this.
A guy I work with has about 400 per month to live on after alimony and child support for two kids. He got screwed. But he also yelled at the female judge in Court.
I want to hear that story. What does he do for a living? How much does he make? How much does he give for alimony? What about child support? Etc?
lol. I think we all know which option is cheaper, but the main problem is the clean up afterwards. Going to jail has a high opportunity cost.
The age old problem problem is that if that woman married him while he was in school/training she can claim that she contributed to his training and therefore deserves a portion of the earnings. Frankly it ticks me off. A spouse can make you food but she can't share the all nighters, your jerk boss, your backstabbing colleagues or other things that come with the territory. She didn't share such a big proportion of the pain so why does she get such a big share of the rewards?
Still from the woman's perspective her value as a marriage partner has decreased. She spent the best years of her life with this person. She'll be older at the time of her divorce than at the time of her marriage so unless she's Jackie Kennedy the likelihood of her managing to marry another guy at all, much less a guy as rich as him is close to nil. She's damaged goods or as good as.
This is why my mentor told me not to date while training/being in school. True, it is possible to be overworked, sleep deprived, poorly nourished AND concurrently to avoid golddiggers, but I have seen so many otherwise smart people fall for golddiggers hook line and sinker. -_- Needless to say, they're not asking for a prenup. I have one friend who's smart enough not to fall for a golddigger, he dated her and then dumped her, but I don't agree with that either; she just wasted several years of her youth on him.
Is alimony a pre-tax deduction? If not, it should be.
I don't agree with the court's hearing on this but I can still somewhat see the other side of the coin, or at least try to.
a) He was married for 14yrs with 3 kids, during which time the mother presumably raised the kids in favor of pursuing a lucrative career, and presumably it is very difficult for her to pursue one post divorce. b) Who's to say that his wife's support didn't contribute to his overall success. c) To him the value of a single dollar is not as significant, compared to someone else in the same situation who is making much less (at least relative to fulfilling more basic needs).
If the MD wanted to ensure this didn't happen, he should have had a prenup signed.
First, the lives of wealthy housewives is drastically different than that of what your mother probably did. I have seen both ends, my family is not rich, and my mother stayed home and raised us. Cooking, cleaning, driving us places, etc. is hard. But if you can pay someone to do the cleaning, eat our frequently, and live in the city, these burdens become less.
Second, Lucrative Career? Doubt it. I severely doubt this woman would be able to earn what she gets in spousal support each year.
Point b is valid, but I doubt it in this situation.
Point c is true, but he is giving ~$0.50 of every dollar he owns...that's a lot to anyone.
And what is the most mood killing thing that you can do when your engaged. "I love you and we're gonna be together forever, but....would you first sign this prenup?" Let's be honest no one goes into marriage thinking of divorce, and some dudes pussy out on asking.
I think that is difficult to justify given limited info, but I do agree with your points in general. What I was trying to say is that it depends on the specific situation and there could feasibly be cases where this type of ruling is not that outrageous.
Not always the case. Plenty of the stay at home moms have degrees from Ivy league schools, grad degrees from HBS/YLS and gave up potentially very high paying careers (finance/law/consulting) to raise their kids while their husband stayed at work. Now this is certainly not the norm in a lot of places, but you can't assume that every guy who works in finance is marrying a complete moron who comes from poverty and is just a gold digger.
+1 SB.
From the thread title, I thought Marcus was going to share fun stories about making it with a Japanese girl
Just make sure you keep it in your pants. My brother actually had a pre-nup but had a little something on side and now he pays 4K/week. Women who are opportunists are always ready to tear you the bone if you can't keep your shit together.
No kidding, I was expecting some greek epic about geishas...
So you think your cheater brother is a pillar of morals and ethics, but his ex-wife is an opportunist ready to tear men to the bone?
Marriage is a contract. One of the contract provisions is, usually, not fucking other people. When a party breaches a contract while reaping the benefits of said contract, it is only fair that the breaching party pays not only the real damages, but also the punitive damages.
Trophy housewife may not have had a career that is more lucrative than the alimony, but she could have married someone richer, smarter, more likely to succeed, and/or less likely to have "something on the side".
I think its pretty fuckin stupid to re-assess how much she should get because his income increased. I would argue that his income increased in part because of the absence of that abscess. But now this bitch wants to come back to re-sink her fangs into this poor bastard.
Let this be a lesson to all of you... not only should you have a pre-nup but you should also have a secret bank account that has 80% of your personal wealth.
TRUTH.
I couldn't agree with you more. Will someone please explain to me the logic/argument for why he should pay more alimony after his salary increased?
respectfully, how would an analyst start keeping a secret bank account from day one? you don't have to mention specifically, but roughly would be fine.
i'm just wondering roughly how to hide $$ from investigators. Usually if you're at a BB and a court orders the accountant to send in your payroll from day one, they do it right? So they would know exactly how much you've stashed away. If you send it to Switzerland to a private bank or Cayman Islands, are there actually firms that resist foreign court orders to account balances?
Do you send it offshore, and provide evidence that you've lost the amounts? Ie statements from your broker showing losses on trading?
Thanks
"secret bank account" - yeah good luck. a far safer plan is to never get married or live with a woman.
or you get a dbag judge like this: http://www.totaldivorce.com/news/articles/process/man-jailed-fourteen-y… The fact that the courts will split assets 50/50 is despicable. Yes, I believe that the woman can say "well, instead of working on my career, I married this man and had kids instead" and she's entitled to something, and even if she's getting more than the market rate of her alternative career (what do they pay secretaries these days?), 50k a month is ridiculous. I take home a tenth of that, and I'm making more than 90+% of the households in the US. Eddie posted something about marriage a while ago. He's kept it going strong, but I doubt many of us (current 20-somethings) will ever get married, and this just supports the case against it.
Some random thoughts, in no particular order: * give me 10% the bitch disappears. One phone call. just kidding..... * Why do these guys get married without a prenup? * Cash in a bank vault. It fucking works. Or a hole in the back yard. * divorce court should have a man AND woman joint judge because woman judges FUCK US * I love it when the same shit happens to a rich woman and she loses half * Why do these guys get married without a prenup? * Please God, PLEASE never put me through a divorce. I'm afraid of what I will do.......
Seriously, why do these guys get married without a prenup? If you have nothing when you get married, then yeah she gets half because she was part of the winning team. If you are already loaded and she marries you, then if you get divorced a couple of years later I fail to see why the gold digging bitch should get half....cut her head off and send it to her mother.
Premarital assets are not considered in divorce, pre-nup or not. I personally heard/read/know of NO cases of a woman marrying an already established man and taking him for all he got. When people settle out of court for a huge sum of money/include pre-marital assets for consideration there's usually a good reason for that (i.e. one of the spouses is paying the other one off to keep quiet)
lacy peterson a hoe
wow, are you fucking serious.
For everyone that says oh just get a prenup...it doesnt work that way. Prenups aren't some iron clad document that keeps you from getting your shirt taken. They can be dismissed, defeated, etc. Happens everyday.
Why not just marry a woman who is significantly wealthier than you? Definitely takes the pressure off in terms of your career.
Lawyers happened and while newly minted lawyers are being pumped out at ever increasing rates while corporate law jobs decline this kind of stuff is just going to get worse . These guys are all scum bags.
We've discussed ad nauseum the financial perils of marriage. Whatever the reasons for divorce be it as bad as massive infidelity or as benign as an amicable parting of ways you can bet the farm that in both situations lawyers are going to ratchet up the level of vitriol for their own benefit. Two lawyers arguing in front of a judge (who is a lawyer) about precedent (from previous gatherings of lawyers) or laws (made by politicians many of whom are lawyers). Hate.
I was about to post it until HPM beat me to it. No document is invincible, they get tossed out all the time. Moreso with female judges. Agreed with UFO that there should be a gender-equal panel to balance out the verdicts.
The McCourts had a prenup I believe and the judge tore it up.
This is where dual citizenship comes in handy. Something like this happens to me and I'm hightailing it out of the country.
I know two guys who just got divorced (not from each other...) and both ensured repeatedly that I would actually kill them if they ever tried to remarry again.
One didn't have kids, still wasn't happy but got off all right... second one was going through his second divorce with a kid from a psychotic gold digger, she ended up repeatedly filing false domestic abuse charges against him just to get what she could. Best part was I saw her afterward and she was wondering "why they just couldn't trust each other." Tough.
Unfortunately, this has become an increasingly popular tactic among divorce lawyers. Advising female clients to file domestic abuse charges (often without merit) throws an enormous burden of proof on their soon-to-be-ex-husband.
If men filed domestic abuse charges for the constant fucking nagging that is an ever-present component of 95%+ of marriages, perhaps the pendulum would swing the other way.
I spend a lot of my time being thankful that I'm not into chicks. Fuck, us women are a FANTASTIC breed.
Edmundo, you live abroad right ? What would happen if a guy just took off to another country to avoid alimony payments ?
My friend's dad was ordered to pay a certain amount in Connecticut and just fled the state for a while because he thought it was bullshit. Granted, he did have to pay more in the end fixing everything (and paying for his wife's lawyers), and I think there was a warrant out for his arrest, but... in theory... I guess you can do it.
yea, leaving the State is just delaying the inevitable I think. But fleeing the country is pretty much permanent. I'm just wondering if the person would be arrested at the airport like a terrorist if he decided to return.
Roman Polanski put it in a 13-year old's butt, and he's never done any time. So I guess it's a viable option.
Read this whole post w/ all comments and this is by far the best. What makes it better is that I recently saw a Polanski movie.
I am a graduating student (headed to IB) in a serious relationship and I have conditioned my girlfriend to expect a pre-nump if we ever get married. I definitely understand why some people don't want to press the issue -- it's a tough sell when you're asking for divorce protection before you get married. I feel like it is a good idea to bring it up early and relatively often in serious marriage talks. That will lessen the impact and reduce the pressure on both you and your lady friend (or man friend for you ladies).
Also alimony and child support are tax deductible for the payor
The level of lady bashing on this site never ceases to amaze me.
You all talk about models and bottles. Then cry when she wants half.
Men and women are polar opposites when it comes to drive and providing on a monetary level. (most men and women...not all.)
I have posted about this topic already, but you guys are missing a huge point that makes it even worse...the 600K seems punitive but you are assuming his pay remains where it is. I know guys who were making a ton of money, got divorced, had a settlement set, and then saw their career take a down-turn. Good luck going back to the judge to get your payment adjusted downward...it is impossible if you have the wrong judge who will laugh at you.
So now imagine that the guy is paying 600K/year and then the bank has a horrible year, he doesnt close any deals, he is a trader that doesnt make any money that year, etc and his pay gets cut 40%. Happens all the time on Wall St. Now he is really talking about a change in lifestyle. Then he goes back to the judge and asks for an adjustment and his wife tells his kids he is a greedy prick who is hiding money, everyone hates him, etc. Meanwhile he is back to living like a 22 year old in a one bedroom apt ordering in chinese food to keep costs down. This is why you monkeys want to be careful before entering into marriage and make sure you have an agreement for what happens in the event of divorce. And no this didnt happen to me but i've seen it before and its uuugly...
Well, it definitely doesn't support the "he would have done just as well if not better on his own, so why should he share his success" sentiment
Scary shit...
I am not taking sides on the issue of "right or wrong" and I definitely am not into woman bashing...but I just know from experience that sometimes these settlements end up being extremely unfair and I think its important that people enter into marriage with a realistic picture even if it doesnt sound terribly romantic. Do you think its fair that a guy should be paying 75% of income to his ex-wife because he happened to have a few huge years trading a decade ago when they got divorced? I dont think its being anti-woman to say that everyone should have an understanding of what will happen if the relationship falls apart before they get married...50% of marriages do end in divorce after all.
Not fair at all. I feel bad for the dude. I'm just using poor chap's story to highlight the total lack of logic in the arguments of this thread's woman-hating latent homos. If he financially does better after divorce, he shouldn't be judged on his new income, but if he does worse then he shouldn't be judged on the income of his lucky years? Doesn't seem fair and unbiased.
I guess I believe that people should honor their word. If you promise in sickness and in health, then you should mean it. If you don't, then you are obtaining whatever you are obtaining by fraud and deception. I personally don't care to get married any time soon, but I am able to fulfill my needs for companionship, intimacy, sex, etc by different people without having to commit or deceive either of them on the nature of my interest, plans, or involvement with others, or treating them unfairly in any way.
At the core of human relationships of any kind, if you look to one person to fulfill multiple needs, chances are that person doesn't need to fulfill all the same/complementing needs and is extending him/herself to fulfill at least some of your needs at no benefit to him/her. Also sometimes you have that one need that a certain person fulfills better than anyone else, and you know that if you let him/her go, your need will go unfulfilled or inadequately fulfilled for a long time, and so you make a commitment.
The need doesn't have to be sex or money, and the commitment doesn't have to be marriage. The commitment can be something like commitment to friends, job, landlord, vision, charity, etc.
Prenuptial agreement, 80% of assets in an offshore anonymous numbered account and a hitman should keep the gold diggers at bay.
How exactly do you establish "an offshore anonymous numbered account"? This is the important education, not what they teach us at school...
Women. God I hate em.
not getting married isn't enough. friend of mine moved in with a female family friend of his for about 9 months to help her "get back on her feet" after her baby's father left.
guess whose paying child support?
apparently "society decides who the father is" and he "acted like a father figure"
Uhhh... yeah, life is tough in east Oakland.
BTW... who picked this picture for this topic? People probably think there is a naked tattooed ass on my screen.
My initial thought as well...
Do you have a link to the full story by any chance?
Holy shit...
New fool proof plan: 1) Don't marry 2) Don't date chicks with kids
Yes there are plenty of Ivy league women who give up their jobs and work as housewives. But generally the spouse with the higher income is the one who works (and with feminism both will work because how can society expect the WOMAN to give up on HER job while the MAN makes the $$$$?). Generally men also have better business prospects in the view of women (glass ceiling) so it makes more economic sense for the woman to stay home.
A better system in my opinion would be to determine the fraction of net worth each individual had coming into the marriage, and how much supposedly contributed, tangibly (co-signing for loans, opening business, working at his company pro bono, etc.) and divide from there. None of this, "I f*cked him every night when he was stressed out because I knew he needed it, not because I wanted it."
Women filing fake domestic abuse charges shows how humans in society are greedy as hell. Men do it too when they marry rich women. It's just that it seems that women are smart enough / men aren't bitchy enough to protest, when they want a prenup.
Is anyone a lawyer here? I was wondering what would happen if all your assets are in someone else's name (i.e. mother, brother, other family member). Can the judge still order you to pay 50% of it?
In lieu of legal expertise I'll lend you some common sense... if its obvious that these were fraudulent transfers, the court can and will nail your balls to the wall. Especially since it looks like you were trying to pull a fast one on the system.
Best course of action would be to allege your wife was molesting the kids.
I am sorry if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that, if I have all my property in the name of my parents from the beginning (i.e. even before I met the girl that I am now divorcing), would that change anything?
I'm pretty sure LLCoolJ's story is bullshit. If the guy isn't on the birth certificate and hadn't gone through legal steps to take parental rights from the father on the birth certificate, the court wouldn't establish his paternity. If he signed up for the birth certificate knowing it's not his kid, then he is a dumbass and should serve as the warning to others.
I don't know whether LLCoolJ's story is bullshit or not, but I can tell you that it is very possible. In the state of Florida (and presumably elsewhere) the court will not bastardize a child, for just about any reason. My personal experience comes from my mother and my half-sister. My mom (who has long been divorced from my biological father) remarried many years after divorcing my father. The guy ended up becoming a drunk and eventually abusive. My mom left him, he moved back to Kentucky and they never spoke again. Several years later my mother met another guy, with whom she had a kid (my half-sister). Care to guess who my half-sister's legal father is? That's right, dick face in Kentucky...despite my half-sister's biological father being there at her birth and signing the birth certificate, in the eyes of the state of Florida my mom was legally still married and therefor the father of my sister was a guy that didn't even know she was ever born and who hadn't seen or spoke to my mother in probably 10+ years. I know the shit doesn't make sense, but why would it?!?
To add to that situation, my father worked dependency court for several years as a bailiff and saw similar situations rather frequently...although they usually involved low income folks, so there typically wasn't much in the way of assets...but often the b/f would have to foot the bill for kids that weren't his, etc. because the biological father wasn't around anymore and the mother and b/f had been staying in the same government subsidized apartment/trailer.
Regards
You dont have to hide all your assets like a thief...you just have to have an honest discussion with your soon-to-be wife prior to getting married about what will happen if it doesnt work out. If you would prefer to start shifting money into swiss bank accounts and buying houses in your mother's name to having this conversation then I might suggest that you are not ready for marriage...
All true, but keep in mind that you actually have something to discuss. The most vocal of the bunch are still college students, or cogs in a machine at best, with obnoxious shitty backstabbing personalities. They don't have neither the smarts nor the personal integrity to ever make it to a level where a pre-nup would start making some sort of sense.
^--- while I agree with your assessment of most of the personalities on here (including yourself), why is smarts and/or personal integrity a prerequisite to a prenup having any value?
It's something I think is highly correlated with real success. Some shifty spineless kid won't make it too far despite being smart (example:jeffrey chiang) and someone who is honest and hard-working but stupid won't make it far either. I think it is safe to assume that the stupid and the uber-shady will hit a pay ceiling and won't reach the level of income that would need to be protected by a pre-nup. For someone making 60-80k a year, what is there to protect, really? Even at low six fig, a job is easier to find than a suitable mate.
Income Wealth
idk if it's been answered yet, but alimony is deductible...
Can't you just blow your money(probably the same way she already does), declare bankruptcy, and watch them implode on themselves once the money stops comming in? Is this possible?
3rd paragraph:
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/12/06/style/celia-t-marks-married-to-george…
Wonder how much she's making from the first marriage...
once she gets re-married alimony payments usually end.
Another benefit to a pre nup is that it adds a sense or reality and sanity to a marriage. After 10-15 years or marriage it will be compromise and friendship that keeps it together, not disneyland gaga bullshit.
Sit you wife down and talk thing out. It should t even be about divorce. These are my assets and these are yours and in the future we should have XYZ each. Just like you should also talk about wills, life insurance, hereditary illness, etc.
That's easy to say -- and sure, it makes perfect sense. However, it's a much, much harder thing to broach when you're head over heels in love with someone (and I know, guys are supposed to be tough, not let women break you, as men we are always level headed and completely rational in everything we do especially in relationships, blah blah blah) and the both of you are wrapped up in that stage where you're both about to make a life together. Most of you guys will still not do it - because it's easy to say "I will do the rational thing blah blah blah" when you're not in that position to marry someone -- however when you are in love with her and you want to marry her (and have that expectation and image and fantasy in your mind that you want to spend the rest of your life together, have a family, grow old, etc.) you will try and rationalize to yourself that it will work out so you don't need one.
It's easy to talk about "protecting one's assets" when you're talking about someone else, or a future version of yourself, but it's usually the last thing on your mind when YOU are the fiance and marriage is not some "future version of yourself" but your present.
Prenups are more likely to be broached by couples where BOTH sides come into the marriage with substantial assets (i.e. both sides are heirs, or come from wealthy backgrounds). Or in situations where both sides are much older and have assets to bring to the table.
But if you're like most, you'll be getting married in your late 20s and 30s, when you don't have a lot current assets to protect; most of your assets are to be accumulated well into the future. And in that situation, no matter how rational you may think it makes sense, it's a very awkward thing to broach, especially when your significant other may feel there isn't much to protect, or she feels you're going to be by far the most substantial breadwinner in 5-10 years.
Again, I'm not saying that prenups don't make sense -- but that most of you still will not draw one up, no matter how much bravado you may muster up about how you won't let her screw you over, blah blah blah -- most of you won't be in that state of mind when you're ready to marry. That kind of "screw the b*tch, I won't let her take my money!" confrontational sentiment is what we usually direct to our past relationships, and not to the people we're in love with today.
the bottom like is: if she got a peak inside her kimono, it may not be a "she" after all - DO NOT MARRY (unless you are into that kind of thing)
anybody else click on this link expecting nude pictures of geishas?
Rerum quisquam dolores quisquam dolor. Quis culpa perspiciatis dignissimos laboriosam aliquid hic quos.
Sunt sunt minus vero repellat consequatur. Eius eaque similique quos eos iste possimus. Molestiae molestiae inventore eum velit qui vel. Est quas omnis laudantium. Quaerat sunt minima dolores aliquid at. Veniam recusandae consectetur eos perferendis dolorem amet consectetur.
Natus quasi sunt hic qui. Aut et molestiae est non laboriosam. Sint rerum ut omnis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Pariatur distinctio laborum quod et. Laborum quibusdam laboriosam error quos aperiam voluptas.
Dolores minus velit aut ipsum. Quaerat corporis laborum minima eligendi ut dolore et.
Harum quia corrupti sed vel. Atque eum placeat sunt rerum aut quis. Velit assumenda velit ea animi et. Consequuntur accusantium architecto enim. Ut ut aut est molestiae. Non officia voluptates quae tempora sit.
Doloribus non harum ad praesentium porro explicabo. Recusandae enim voluptate sit tenetur totam voluptates officia. Odio saepe mollitia asperiores quasi minus aperiam nihil tenetur. Consequatur omnis aut qui itaque sapiente nulla nihil. Voluptate quia recusandae sit magnam velit qui sed fugit. Aspernatur repellendus sunt aut cupiditate dolor.
Molestiae quibusdam ut laboriosam molestiae quo. Voluptatem ipsa eum ut deleniti et molestiae laboriosam soluta. Voluptatem provident molestiae et adipisci id accusamus earum. Corporis maiores beatae omnis error saepe sint cum temporibus. Delectus voluptatem autem voluptatem in quis quaerat explicabo accusantium. Rerum sint neque voluptatum sint incidunt dolor vel. Voluptate quia maxime voluptatibus esse vel et asperiores.
Nesciunt recusandae fugiat aut quam nulla ex. Recusandae quis sint sit omnis dolores. Necessitatibus commodi recusandae minima maxime. Veritatis placeat suscipit dolore eaque aut in occaecati. Molestias repudiandae nihil provident animi. Ut ad sit eligendi quis est fuga. Adipisci consectetur accusamus voluptatem harum adipisci nobis.
Quod rerum aut quam placeat. Iste eaque rerum voluptate. Voluptate laboriosam eum ipsum asperiores.
Eveniet aperiam at quasi. Qui similique excepturi molestiae non et quod fugit eum. Deleniti omnis sit sed non laboriosam.
Illo omnis iste eos ut molestiae consectetur. Expedita consequuntur qui quis repellat. Quibusdam saepe deleniti reiciendis totam aut. Similique qui illum dolorem totam quo.