Accepted offers - now network your way into group placement

Analyst 2008's picture
Rank: Baboon | banana points 112

I have accepted an IB offer from a prestigious BB. I've been told by many to keep following up with the people there, especially bankers in the top groups that you wanted to join. Does it mean that I have to email each banker I know every month to make sure they know who I am and where I want to be placed? Many ppl I know are doing that. I was going to wait until training to talk to different groups. Is it going to be too late?

Comments (50)

Jan 16, 2008

IF you know people in the groups you want to join, you should reach out to them. Find out about the culture, dealflow, etc. and try to ask them for more people within the group at various levels who might be willing to talk with you. Let them know you're interested in the group.

That being said, you've got the offer so don't worry too much about group selection. Emailing every month seems a little absurd. You'll very likely get a group you want, but if you want the top groups you'll either need to be a rockstar on paper or get to know some of the analysts / associates who will say they want you in their group.

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Jan 16, 2008

I dont know how the group selection process works, but I read in another thread that if you want to work in one of the top groups your odds are much better if you're from a target, since the heads of the top groups are more likely to pull for people that went to their alma mater. How accurate is this?

So does that mean that if a non target student manages to get into a BB, will his/her non target status come back to haunt them again in the group placement proces?

Or is group selection based equally on networking, how much the current bankers like you, your performance during training/interviews, your resume and experience et etc??

Or does it simply depend on the bank.

Jan 16, 2008

In my experience it depends on at what position you are being considered for. I think you are alluding to a seperate post of mine, which concerned SA positions. After a summer you are given group specific and general IBD offers. Thus SAs who network and don't want to return to their group usually have met and spoken with other groups by this time (and also can later). Thus returning SAs get a leg up on the non SA FTs (especially this year due to the high retention rate). At this point there is no real advantage of being from a target or non-target, as only your reputation and the quality of work you did matters.

For group selection of SAs there is an advantage for target kids. Generally target kids receive their offers earlier and thus have more time to network. Additionally, since kids do not have a previous track record at the bank groups will often choose kids from their alma mater. Now this is my own view, but this is what I have seen over a couple years during SA group selection. Of course networking, likability, experience all matter, but this can explain why a disporportionate amount of target kids join groups dominated by people from their own school. Basically, everyone should be qualified, so without a track record, who would you rather have someone from your school or somewhere else?

Jan 16, 2008

Anyone who will talk to you.
Vps/Mds will ultimately have the final say though.

Jan 16, 2008

Since it's fairly difficult to get in contact with VPs/MDs (and most incoming SAs don't spreak with them for the most part) will a VP/MD rank a prospective candidate based on their resumes?

Jan 16, 2008
sundown:

Since it's fairly difficult to get in contact with VPs/MDs (and most incoming SAs don't spreak with them for the most part) will a VP/MD rank a prospective candidate based on their resumes?

Basically yes, although it's really not that difficult to get in contact with a VP/MD and at least for the "top groups", a fair number of SAs will reach out to them in advance.

If you send someone an email saying something to the effect of , "I'm going to be a SA year at your firm and was hoping to learn more about your group", the vast majority of people will answer.

Jan 16, 2008

Find an alumni from your school for the specific group and ask him to put you in touch with people you should talk to in the group. There is a certain set of people that seem to do the picking (staffer, few VP and experienced Analyst/Associates).

Jan 16, 2008

Also, I have tried to make it clear that I have a strong preference for Product/Coverage (1 of the 2). Anyone ever end up expressing the same preference and getting the opposite?

"Money is a scoreboard where you can rank how you're doing against other people."
-Mark Cuban

Jan 16, 2008

Yes. I would network evenly with all four groups, however, you should not go around saying to each of those groups that "ur my top choice"; resource managers (aka staffers) all talk to each other during the placement process, so it will go back and hurt you.

I have definitely seen cases where interns don't get placed in their top 8 choices (out of 20) - this is largely driven by the fact that regardless of where you rank them, ultimately the group will have final say. If a groups' resource manager has you as a top candidate, you will get placed there irrespective of where you ranked them, generally.

This is based on first-hand knowledge at a BB. Good luck!

Jan 16, 2008

I would go with people over desk type for first job.
You do not want to be screwing up and being afraid to ask questions because you dont want to piss off the people that have wierd personalities.

Jan 16, 2008

Def don't start networking about group placement until early summer... They aren't going to give people points for being the first to brown nose.

    • 1
Jan 16, 2008

Thanks for the advice.

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Jan 16, 2008

Are the 3 groups all product or coverage groups or a mixture of both?

Jan 16, 2008

Both

Jan 16, 2008

bump. Thoughts anyone?

Jan 16, 2008

1. Find out how placement works at the BB via HR or someone you interviewed with. I imagine there is a sell day where you meet the different teams and you rank each other in terms of preference. HR then places you accordingly.

2. If it is indeed a mutual ranking system, I would reach out beforehand to analysts in each of those groups for a chat. After each chat, ask if there is anyone else you can speak to in the group and take it from there.

Jan 16, 2008

For me into my preferred industry group - be up-to-date on the industry, reach out to people in that group and grab coffee - make them more a friend than just a contact but still a relationship where it feels like you want to learn from them (like you should want to) - ask questions like "How did you get into this group", "Why do you pick the people for your group that you pick", "How can I get considered for your group".

Don't do that with too many groups though - I know a guy who did it with two groups (Sponsors and TMT) and those two groups really really liked him. It was awkward when the Sponsors that did not get to pick him gave him a phone call to ask why TMT thought my friend was 100% for TMT over any other group.

So, best of luck^^

Jan 16, 2008

Whichever group pays the least attention to you is probably the best one.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..

Jan 16, 2008
Cruncharoo:

Whichever group pays the least attention to you is probably the best one.

this advice is fucking gold

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Jan 16, 2008

Please just send them your two weeks notice. There are plenty of kids out there that would kill to just have that offer and actually appreciate it.

Jan 16, 2008
KKS:

Please just send them your two weeks notice. There are plenty of kids out there that would kill to just have that offer and actually appreciate it.

He's too good for two weeks notice; advice for OP is to just waltz into the CEO's office, put his feet up on the desk after stepping into dog sh*t, and ask for a recommendation for GS M&A/HBS or 200% base increase + guaranteed bonus.

Jan 16, 2008

Honestly, you've made it this far which is excellent. You're getting a little ahead of yourself. Go, meet people, ask them genuine questions, and then make up your mind. Who knows, maybe the people you like the most will be with a group you never would have thought of working with

Jan 16, 2008

I just want to clear it up...I'm not ungrateful for my offer at all. I went to a non-target and not many banks came to my university. So I'm more than happy with the offer and the company. I should have made something else clear. In addition to finance, I studied accounting when I was in school. Many of my friends studied accounting and when they got offers they were specializing in one area; for example, they knew they would be in audit or the tax department, etc. So had I gone that route and landed a job, I know I'd be doing audit or something. I don't want to come across at all like I have some sort of problem with my situation. I am more than lucky to have gotten any offer. I was just wondering if there are people who went into their job not really knowing which group they'd be in. And also if there is any advantage to trading versus a coverage group. I'm simply trying to gather as much info as I can.

Also, here is one suggestion for those trying to find something in the industry. This made me stick out when I was interviewing at the banks. I interned for an accounting firm the summer before my senior year. After the internship I decided that I'd rather pursue finance. The internship ended two weeks before the semester started so I wanted to get some form of finance experience b/c at this point I decided I'd apply to whichever banks were coming to my university once I arrived on campus. I went online and found a few small PE shops near my university so I literally just cold called them and told them I was interested in private equity and would work unpaid if I could assist in the office. One of the firms agreed so I worked there three days a week in between classes. The banks seemed to appreciate that kind of initiative. I would recommend doing something like that, or ask a professor is he/she has any research or projects you could work with them on.

Jan 16, 2008

You didn't go to a non-target if investment banks came on campus for FO positions....niceeee try there budddyyy

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

Jan 16, 2008

ha, agreed.

Jan 16, 2008

I always thought S&T training/recruiting was completely separate from the Investment Banking activities. Are you sure S&T is included in your 5-week period? Are you sure you didn't sign an offer for an S&T position? (serious question)

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this

Jan 16, 2008

I thought so too. In my offer letter my title is Investment Banking Analyst. The way I found out S&T was included during the 5-week period is b/c after we got our offers, the bank paired each incoming analyst with a current first year analyst. The person who was paired with me told me this is how it worked and that he put both coverage groups and S&T positions in his top 6 or 8 or whatever it is, and he ended up as a currency trader. That is why I think during the 5 week period we will meet people in both S&T and Investment Banking Activities.

Jan 16, 2008

Strange... doesn't S&T require other skills than IB (maths, markets, pricing VS valuation monkey), making the interview process quite different?
Cool for you if its mixed though, gives you a wider array of opportunities to choose from!

Since you want to "build the models, learn to value a company" I think IB is much better suited for you ;)
S&T is "real money", but only if you're the best. IB will make it easier to fake it till you make it =P

Jan 16, 2008

Same question but for SA- do any of you older guys have suggestions of how to get into the top (or your preferred) groups once you have your offer?

Jan 16, 2008

bump

Jan 16, 2008

Talk with your alumni (preferably in that group) who will help you set up informational with bunch of people in that group.

Jan 16, 2008

- Email guys that interviewed you to meet up and express your interest. If you are interested in a different group don't be afraid to ask their opinion and for any referrals
- Prepare for the marketing fair where you rank the groups. Think of some valid questions but also make sure you show personality as they will be picking people they want to spend 18+ hours a day with

Jan 16, 2008

If it's anything like in Liars Poker, you should tell everyone that someone else already has his/her sights on you.

Might want to ignore me.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

Jan 16, 2008

Have to be passionate about the desk you want to work on. If you are genuine and not a tool you will hopefully get a bid from them.

Really it is just personality fit with some desks. One desk said they would hire someone who they get along with but might have a lower potential output (read: would make less money for the desk) than someone who is annoying/toolish but would make more money.. take that how you wish.

good luck.

Jan 16, 2008

bump

Jan 16, 2008

It really depends on the firm - some firms hate it, some don't care. My advice is to go contact your closest alumni or the person you know the best in the firm and ask for his/her tips, because he/she is the one who can tell you whom you should talk to in each group.

Jan 16, 2008

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Jan 16, 2008