Advice for undergrads going into IB interested in PE
This might be hard to hear but as long as you're at an NYC EB/BB, your group/bank doesn't matter for PE recruiting. There's a few exceptions like PJT RSSG, GS TMT, MS M&A, and a couple of more. In general, it comes down to the other factors. I'm at an UMM(turned down an MF offer) and have spoken about this at length with our hh. I can guarantee that the kid from GS IND would have had the same outcome from CS IND, especially for on cycle.
Seriously, go somewhere where you won't be miserable. If you want generalist PE, just avoid FIG/RE/Natres (exceptions are MS GPUG, GS/JPM FIG) and find a group where people are reasonable, you fit in, maybe a few college alumni, and ideally senior people invest in you. If it's at DB, go for it. Contrary to belief on wso, DB IB is not going to shut down and fire all of its analysts next year.
This is great to hear as someone in RBC!
Underrated post
Good advice. My group (mid-BB) is not one of the ones people fawn over on here, and we send analysts to interview with MFs etc. all the same year in, year out. Converting is on you.
This is useful! Where do other people on this forum get their info from lol. From most threads it just seems like the only people who make it to top PE firms are from GS TMT and MS M&A when I know people from all banks who've ended up in great places. Please prioritize culture/mental health etc when you're choosing between offers and not the bank/group that you THINK will help you land the best PE firm :) There is no point in making it to Blackstone if you hate your life
Currently at a MF. Generally, for PE recruiting, there are three types of groups: the absolute top tier (like the groups the other PE aso listed above), most groups in BBs and EBs / a couple top MMs (like BAML C&R, CS IND, MS Sponsors, Jeff, etc.). then everyone else (BB cap markets groups, most other banks). So yes, to an extent if you're in the middle tier its mostly up to you as a candidate, and I would recommend picking based more on group culture and lifestyle. I think HHs and PE firms realize nowadays that banking recruiting is a huge crapshoot and that sometimes strong candidates can end up at the firm that first gave them an offer, so I think group distinctions are not as strong as they were a few years ago
This was super helpful as well :) What would you say are the absolute top tier groups? How much does undergrad school / GPA play a factor?
Depends how you classify groups. The groups I would say get looks from absolutely anywhere are the GS classic coverage groups (TMT, Industrials, FIG, C&R, and Healthcare. Not so much NatRes or RE), PJT RSSG, MS M&A. A bunch of groups that I would call 1B get looks from everywhere but won't be quite as highly regarded as the above groups, such as Evercore M&A, JPM Healthcare, MS M&C, maybe even CS / BAML sponsors and Citi M&A.
GPA and Undergrad are super important, for better or worse, since recruiting is so early, but if you're in GS TMT then it matters a lot less (however, I would assume most of the kids in these groups have stellar academic records). I would say if you are not in one of the 1a groups it is very important, and for the vast majority of groups (say you're in CS Industrials or Barclays Consumer) having a good gpa and good undergrad could be the difference maker in getting an interview.
This was helpful. Any insights into a metals and mining group?
I did not know there were any Metals and Minings groups Among bulge bracket banks, but I do know it is a vertical within industrials or natural resources groups. If its a vertical then its fine because you are still sitting within a broader industrials group, but don't take my word for it. If it pigeonholes you at least for Infra / Nat res focused firms it would be appealing
How much easier is it recruiting from an absolute top tier than a good or average group at a BB / EB? If everyone at the other BB / EB groups get good UMM/MF looks anyway, what's the big advantage of being at a top group?
As an analyst at tobin & co this is a relief to hear
Underrated post
Out of curiosity, what is it like recruiting from PJT RSSG / Goldman TMT/ MS M&A then? I know a lot of people echo the sentiment that unless you're at one of the extremely few top of the top groups, everyone else at all the BBs / EBs get an equal/fair shot and good looks. What more benefits / privileges are given to the people at those top of the top groups? Just struggling to understand what more you can ask for than a chance to interview at MFs and it seems like all the BB/EB kids get that anyway. Are there opportunities exclusively for those top group kids, or is the bar for them to get an offer during an interview a lot lower? Appreciate any insight.
interested as well
Totally agree with you that most BB/EB candidates will get a shot with the same PE firms. But, going to one of the 3 groups you mentioned (or any other top group) will provide you with more deals/experience to talk about during interviews. You also carry more credibility/respect going into those interviews. The kid from PJT RSSG--all else being equal--will probably be hired over the kid from, say, BAML CR. In that sense it's definitely easier to switch to PE from a "top" banking group.
There are three hurdles to pass through when recruiting for PE. Basically every candidate from a BB or EB will get connected to the same headhunters (CPI and HSP are the two biggest) and the first hurdle is impressing them. The second step is getting through the actual fund's screening. Then the third step is when recruiting kicks off (if you go on-cycle, otherwise its the same thing but for off-cycle). Being in PJT RSSG or MS M&A allows you to basically skip the first two steps -- unless you are extremely unsociable and unable to talk to the HHs at all, you are very likely to be recommended to the funds you want to interview with, and the funds you want to interview with are very likely to give you a chance. If you are from another group that is very good but not one of these above-mentioned groups, say BAML industrials or CS healthcare or even MS transportation, you need to get the HHs to recommend you and for the funds to pick you from a pile of resumes. This is why undergrad / gpa are important -- they are two indicators of intellect and academic horsepower which make PE firms and HHs more comfortable selecting you. Additionally, there are a select few firms which basically only hire from a select group of firms. Blackstone, Crestview, H&F, and KKR are notable for hiring from a very small group of firms year in and year out, although I do know they have interviewed people from outside those firms. It is important to note that once you make it to an interview it is 99% down to performance (again, when comparing someone from PJT RSSG and Princeton versus someone from DB and UMich in an interview who performed equally, it is likely the PJT kid gets the offer).
To add, at this point deals almost don't matter. I think everyone understands that most BB / EB candidates will have reasonable deal experience by the time their two years are up, and if recruiting happens in say, mid-late Sep like last year, there will be nothing to talk about. A lot of legacy groups are strong because when recruiting happened in the past these candidates were nearly guaranteed to have some deals on their resume, but this is no longer really the case.
So would coming from a non target undergrad be a auto ding for MF?
How much does undergrad school matter? (in this example UMich vs Princeton)
Non-target is not an auto-ding. I would classify schools in sort of the same way as I would groups, with the caveat that tier three schools are not an auto-ding from generalist buyout PE (unlike say ECM, which is almost impossible to move to generalist buyout PE). I would classify it in three tiers: 1. Schools that unquestionably are a huge help to recruiting and will actively help your recruitment process; 2. Schools that help at most places but some places may look down on; 3. other schools, where you have more to prove. Another note: like groups, some firms may have specific schools they like (like Berkshire Partners and Crestview seem to hire exclusively from HYPS).
HYPS, basically. I also think there is a 1b and 1c, where 1b is just Wharton while 1c are the other ivies and MIT. Duke and Chicago might be in this tier too. I think my Wharton placing will be controversial but for a lot of reasons I don't think it is quite considered at the same level as HYPS in associate buyside recruiting (different for undergrad recruiting)
Duke and Chicago could also be considered top of this tier, but other schools definitely in the second tier are UVA, NYU Stern, Michigan, UCLA and Berkeley, Williams and Amherst and other top LACs, etc. Basically a lot of schools that are either semi-targets or targets that don't quite have the same level of general prestige. Exceptions for schools like Williams at certain firms, since LAC alum are very likely to pull for their kids
Everyone else.
This is way rougher in terms of tiers, but I would generally say that at any firm HYPS helps, but even a school like Brown at a firm like KKR isn't exactly a positive (even though Brown is a great school). Some firms will really like certain schools as well (if there Is a senior person from say, Northeastern and cares a lot about the school sometimes they will push for their kids). Generally for associate buyside recruiting the general US News ranking is more applicable than IB / undergrad recruiting, since the advantage of undergrad business schools is diminished and top Liberal arts schools are seen in a better light.
Can a top P&U group lead to MF exits / Generalist exits?
Generally, no. However, these groups do well with energy focused funds and even infrastructure funds. Barclays P&U and MS GPUG might let yourself get generalist PE but I really would not count on it
Agree with this post fully and would like to stress group selection. If you really want generalist PE, don't go to MS RE, GS Natres, or EVR FIG because they're "prestigious". Same goes for capital markets groups, but LevFin is a special case(do your due diligence on the specifics of the LevFin group you join).
TMT/HC/IND/C&R/Sponsors/M&A at any BB or EB is usually a safe bet.
Hopefully this post also helps to convince you not to renege. With how timelines look now, nobody is faulting the candidate that wanted to sign Citi in February instead of JPM in October.
Agreed with above. Any traditional coverage group or M&A group will do fine at any BB or EB (can't think of any BB or EB where this is not the case). Sponsors for the most part is safe except maybe at a place like GS. LevFin depends on the bank -- make sure it is more IB focused instead of cap markets oriented (at some firms LevFin even handles all sponsor modeling. I think that is the case at BAML but not entirely sure). And the last point is also true -- many candidates have been taken by the mid-tier BBs who may have had a great shot at GS / MS / JPM, so a lot of candidates who look strong on paper at say CS or Citi will get the benefit of the doubt that they chose the safer offer
How do specialized boutiques and MM fare for PE recruitng?
I'd say Jefferies can compete with BB
BUMP on specialized boutiques
How does PE recruiting look from a top MM firm (ex: William Blair) in Chicago? Does being from a target school help?
also how does it look for BB in chicago?? (citi/cs/baml)
Headed to MF next year and wish I could give this post 50 SBs. Going to an interesting group at a "lower-tier" bank over a specialized and quite frankly boring group at a top EB/BB was the best decision of my life.
Do you mind sharing some advice for someone from a semi-target/mid-tier BB background that is interested in recruiting on-cycle at UMM/MF funds?
Any advice for someone at a LMM boutique in a non-NYC/SF/Chicago city?
Is it preferable to lateral after a year and then recruit on-cycle? Or what are my other options?
bump. I've always wondered if u lateral after SA or some months on the job to a BB if that limits your options in PE. Do the firms view you the same?
Where would you say Centerview places in all this?
Centerview does fine for PE recruiting, but expect to get fired if you openly recruit as a 1st year.
hey! i'll be at wells next summer. i was wondering what groups you recommend at wells if i want to get into PE
Industrials, M&A
oh shit ive set up a bunch of calls with people, and i havent even gotten to industrials :/ ty
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