Comments (18)

Jul 2, 2019

When I was on the trading floor in NYC at a bank, a lot of traders were definitely young. I mean, the market makers were probably between 26-35 and the sales trader were between 26-45. I've been in this industry a little over 6 years now and I'm 27 years old and I'm actually concerned of my future outlook in the case if I remain in this industry. Do I love the fast and dynamic pace of the industry? Hell yes. When I was ICAP in the city, brokers were yelling across the trading floor, cursing and screaming at one another, it was exciting but a lot of the brokers has a dim out look in inter-broker market, trading is get more automated. It just seems more and more people are getting let go. I spoke to the people on the trading floor when they were here during the Lehman days and they tell me how much they miss it. I guess you can tell which bank I worked at now. From what I'm being told, industry isn't what it used to be.

I'm actually considering a career change because quite honestly, I don't see myself as a quanty person. I'm more hands on... So right now, after the military, I'm thinking of going to med school or become a physician assistant or going into FBI or whatever. The problem is I made six figures when I worked at the bank and shit... I don't even have a fucking college degree. Physician's assistant need a masters degree and they got paid exactly what I got paid, so it will feel like a kick in the nuts. So I don't know... Maybe I'll come back after my military career.

    • 2
Jul 4, 2019

I never quite understood the IDB thing.

My understanding is that institutional investor wants to make a trade so he rings broker. They shoot the shit a bit and then the broker rings the sales guy at the bank to see what they can do. More shit shooting occurs before the sales person talks to the traders to execute.

Seems there is at least one person too many in the equation. Maybe the IDB calls many banks and maybe they talked directly to the traders, in which case I fail to see the need for sales people.

What do I miss?

    • 1
Jul 4, 2019

The Sales guy got the business in the first place. Without the sales guy he would have called a different bank most likely.

Jul 5, 2019

The reason why inter-dealer broker market is important is because of the sheer size of the trade you make and flexibility of the the trade, as well. Typically, you trade large size with brokers, anything small is a slap in the face to them because of low commission. The reason why brokers are great is because they're like scavengers, seeking the information from various desks and they know what's going on and who's doing what and you can kind of pick that up from them. Someone like me, was a market maker / prop trader, it would be a huge advantageous to know what the banks or the commodities houses are doing. Treat that broker nice and he make come to you with a big trade. So for example, let's say a bank like JP Morgan need to liquidate positions and willing to sell for dirt cheap, they call the broker and the broker calls me and let's say I make a market think think the value is maybe 1 cent above from what he's trying to sell of me. Disregarding liquidity, I just made 5 grand right there. OTC is great because of

1) Information flow.
2) Flexibility of the trade
3) Size & Liquidity

Downside, it's more expensive obviously than to trade on the screen and you may have clearing issues and the trade might not be added to your positions next day and your market risk team may bitch at you for having a huge delta exposure when you're truly not.

    • 2
Jul 5, 2019

This workflow is wrong. In markets where human beings are still involved...

PM wants to do a trade...he/she calls his sales rep at an ibank, shoots the shit..then asks "where can you bid/offer xyz of ABC security"

Sales guy shouts to trader "where can you bid/offer xyz of ABC security for client #4"
Trader responds to sales "at dfg price"
Sales repeats to PM customer "at dfg price"
If customer accepts the price, he says to sales "i'll do that"
Sales tells the trader "you can do that"
If the ibank trader is still willing, he says "ok, thats done"
sales repeats to customer "ok, thats done" and only NOW is the trade officially "done".

Trader now has a position that was given to him by the customer...and he either asks the sales force to call other customers and see if anybody wants to take some of that position off his hands...or trader goes to the interdealer broker screens and hedges the position and then tries to find a way to unwind the position (depends on the type of trade/position).

just google it...you're welcome

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Jul 2, 2019

Also getting worse on buy-side. Unless you're the head trader, tread very carefully.

Most Helpful
Jul 3, 2019

couldn't access article but the short answer is yes, it happens. if you're a good performer, you're fine, but if you're a job switcher, get with a good recruiter because every single prospective employer will base your next salary off your last one, and this is an easy way to get discriminated against. had a client go through this recently: was at a high energy place with tons of travel and they wanted to take a role at a different firm with less travel and less pay (still good living though). lost out on several opps because the prospective employers all thought "yeah, you'll just end up leaving us for a higher paycheck, and we can't match what you made before."

it's a fucked up world out there, but the best you can hope to do is make yourself irreplaceable, have skills that can translate to a backup plan, and brush up on your people skills in case you need to pound some pavement or decide to hang up your own shingle

    • 3
Jul 3, 2019
thebrofessor:

it's a fucked up world out there, but the best you can hope to do is make yourself irreplaceable, have skills that can translate to a backup plan,

Yeah exactly

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Jul 3, 2019

I work for an oil company and we have just decided to move our traders on site as oppose to quite far away in the capital. One trader didn't want to move but hes 50+ and when he weighed up his options of managing to find another job at his age had to just say fuck it and move.

Jul 3, 2019

If you're old, FLEX SEAL fixes arthritis

Jul 4, 2019

My advice as a guy in my mid 30's. I work on the buy-side as a fundamental analyst so not in S&T. Try to avoid living a flash (expensive) lifestyle and have enough cash set aside to retire by the time you hit 50. That's not to say that you will retire at 50, but just that you can afford to walk away if you get pushed out and can't find something else. There is a real trend towards juniorization in this business and I see very few guys in their 40's and 50's who are employees. It's one thing if you manage to become an MD or a partner in a fund, but that path is tough and very political. The worst place to be is a guy in his 40's, on wife number 2, with a few kids in private school/university, and a big mortgage and car payments on German cars. Then one day you get pushed out and lose it all. I've actually seen guys who committed suicide as their life insurance payout would be worth more than what they could earn elsewhere and they didn't want to take the kids out of school and lose face.

Jul 4, 2019
Ovechkin08:

I've actually seen guys who committed suicide as their life insurance payout would be worth more than what they could earn elsewhere and they didn't want to take the kids out of school and lose face.

I know education is important and all, but I'm always surprised at the degree to which these prep schools have the parents by the balls. It's like they've spent their whole life working to get to a point where their entire self-worth is captured in where their kids attend school.

Reminds me of Moneyball when they want to get all of a player's stats down to one number (wins against replacement, or WAR). For so many parents in New York, WAR is where your kids go to school. Just say your daughter goes to Spence and I don't need to know anything else to know your place in the pecking order; not your job, not your net worth, not your family history. Your whole life, everything you've worked for, summarized in one name.

The parents seem to organize their entire lives around it. And of course, the main benefit of said prep school is its ability to get your kids access to the exact same lifelong hamster wheel.

Lot of f*cked up things about the world we live in, but that whole racket is in my top 10.

    • 1
Jul 5, 2019

I mean thats the racket for everything right. A lot more people in this world want to be flashy and look like they have money as opposed to actually having money.

The other hard part once you establish a lifestyle it's hard to back off of it. Eating bologna is bad, but once you get on a steak lifestyle its really hard to go back to bologna. Not saying that's an appropriate attitude, but that's what people mean when say they have to "maintain a lifestyle"

Jul 5, 2019
PteroGonzalez:
Ovechkin08:

I've actually seen guys who committed suicide as their life insurance payout would be worth more than what they could earn elsewhere and they didn't want to take the kids out of school and lose face.

I know education is important and all, but I'm always surprised at the degree to which these prep schools have the parents by the balls. It's like they've spent their whole life working to get to a point where their entire self-worth is captured in where their kids attend school.

Reminds me of Moneyball when they want to get all of a player's stats down to one number (wins against replacement, or WAR). For so many parents in New York, WAR is where your kids go to school. Just say your daughter goes to Spence and I don't need to know anything else to know your place in the pecking order; not your job, not your net worth, not your family history. Your whole life, everything you've worked for, summarized in one name.

The parents seem to organize their entire lives around it. And of course, the main benefit of said prep school is its ability to get your kids access to the exact same lifelong hamster wheel.

Lot of f*cked up things about the world we live in, but that whole racket is in my top 10.

It's also called intense peer pressure.

It's also how this board has remained relevant/useful post 2008/2009.

Good Luck

    • 2
Jul 5, 2019
Comment

just google it...you're welcome