Long time reader, new poster - first and foremost, thank you to the users who take the time to offer constructive feedback/criticism/stories of the past, etc. You fellas know who you are (Eddie, Midas, Monty,Anthony, Comp, Illini, Gekko and obviously Patrick for creating the site - this list is by no means exhaustive, just an example of people truly here to get shit done and contribute).
I am just going to throw this out there - but if I have to read one more fucking post of some pimple face kid asking what bank has better hours, pay, exit ops, grad school placement, mightgetyoulaid, etc. I am going to jump out of my building. If you are asking about hours, look into another career kids. I don't care if you are the star analyst on GS TMT or an analyst at GULP Jefferies - you are going to have days where you don't go home (which you should appreciate, since you are probably working on a fucking deal). Monkeys - your experiences are what YOU make of them. Stop worrying about the kid you know that went the GS TMT->KKR->HBS->BSD. Sure, brand name helps. Stop posting the linkedin pages of freaks of nature (sure it is cool to view, but stop bitching how you are jealous). Yeah, they did 7 internships at BB's before they were 18 - but do you think they ever had fun? Think they got laid? Think they know how to run game? NO.
When it's all said and done, if you get IB experience at GS or the middle market, you can compete with people you view to be superior. I myself am a non-target, ex middle-market banker who worked my fucking tail off to VC. I am by no means "average" - was a division 1 athlete and held many leadership roles, but.... Being REAL and networking got me relevant internships (IB, hedge fund) and allowed me to leverage relationships that matter much more than having HYP on my resume. Stop selling yourself short - interviewers want someone they can be side by side in the trenches with @ 4 am crushing an excel model or binding a pitchbook, not some fucking mute that started 5 companies and got a 1600 on their SAT.
Midas made a nice thread of pointing out what NOT to do on this site. Clearly, some of you fuckers are blind like that guy from JPM (too soon - but at least I'd have a beer with him) or you are that naive that you think because you go to HYP you are better than the non target kid with a heart like Rocky.
Regardless - it's Friday, and for some reason I am in the mood to call it how it is. Feel free to ask away on the non target route - maybe I can give some more tangible experience than the gentleman that shared his route from MS --> KKR the other day (and how refreshing to realize he doesn't have his head rammed up his ass and is willing to help).
Damn, that was some quality real talk. Greatness.
I'm not really looking at the NYC non-target route, but I appreciate what you're doing here. Props on getting the banking gig and on being able to say you've lived life a little as well.
@ mas - the NYC non-target route is just an option in the world of banking. Sure, NYC is the financial hub of the US - but there are many other equally attractive options. The minute you stop living life, is the minute working is no longer worth it. Why make 6 figures + at 21 years old and be a fuckin hermit?
Oh yea, I'm with you 100%. I mean, I took about 3 years off after high school (well, more or less) and just worked and lived. I had a GREAT time, met people I wouldn't have had the opportunity to and gotten in situations I probably never would have found myself in if I'd gone straight into IB or something similar. I'd highly advise people taking a year off school between HS and college to work and live, and in general see how the world works outside of the bubble they'd been living in. While I am older and I do occasionally kick myself for not going straight to school, 95% of the time I'm thankful that not only did I take that time off, but now I have the opportunity to go back to school.
Believe me, I spent a year working at Starbucks where I walked 1.5 miles to work and 1.5 miles from work every day to make 8.50 an hour and try and pay bills. I eventually moved up and got a job for ~$25k/year, which is a HUGE step up, about a 50% increase in pay. That sure as shit motivated my ass to get in gear.
Appreciate the post and best of luck to ya!
Thank you for saying that. I know that don't bother reading half the topics that have that sort of vibe to them.
Definitely valid points. Between the PM Ettiquite and the Dos and Don'ts of WSO explaining what prospective monkeys should and shouldn't do, I'm surprised that people didn't pay close attention to them.
There's a reason why there's a search function. Learn to use it and love it.
@ Frieds and TheKing - you are some quality gentlemen as well. The list on the original post was by no means inclusive, just an example of quality posters, etc.
Jimmy,
Thanks. Really. As for the non-target route, I have a BS & MS in unrelated topics from non-target state schools. Anyway... wondering your thoughts on trying to apply for internships at boutiques or trying to grab "BO/MO" compliance gigs at bigger names?
Looking to get foot in the door to Front Office/Entry Level Consulting work in ~2 years time in any way, shape or form...
So much truth.
dmcd - internship is probably the most important thing you can do right now, as you have no tangible finance experience (and will competing with target / non target kids that do). Do research in your area, offer free services @ boutiques - this way you can develop a thorough understanding of the business. Check out local PWM in your aread w/ brand name and walk into the place - show them you have the drive to do something other than ASK for the job, earn it!
People on here like to shit on BO/MO compliance gigs (I was never interested in these) but again - it is all about what you want to do and what you MAKE of the opportunity. If you can do trade settlement @ JPM - don't bitch, get the gig and network with the Front Office guys. If they don't want to help you, fuck them and move on - regardless of where you go, you will find people that will lend a hand. Don't sell yourself short - exude confidence and be proactive and I guarantee you will be on here sooner than later returning the favor.
Look @ this forum - people here do not know each other, but give advice that without it, probably would not get you a job.
Jimmy, Thanks for the quick and honest reply.
Jimmy, STFU you idiot.
I'm just kidding. I too am sick and tired of only seeing threads that ask people to rank firms/hours/pay, talk shit about non targets, and generally ask how to get a job.
Hey Jimmy,
I was wondering if you could tell me how to break into banking from a non-target!? How prestigious were your grades and test scores? What were exit opps like for your coworkers!? What color suit should I wear to get me into the BB?
...just fucking with you man. Welcome to the forums, looking forward to some seemingly level-headed posts from you.
Hold on now. This is a legit question.
Jimmy, what suits do we wear? I have been wearing pink sear sucker and have not seen any success.
@ Richie - I'd slick my hair back and wear neon knee pads, bc you know you aren't getting that job from a non target unless you are like the chick from the original "Deep Throat"
ALSO: anyone who asks about wearing a vest - let me settle this now. Since you haven't seen Superbad due to you locking yourself in your basement jacking off to Linkedin profiles - "Take that vest off, you look like Aladdin."
Nefarious - pair that pink sear sucker with white loafers from Aldo - you will have more offers than you know what to do with.
This is the type of information I want to see when I come here.
This is fucking perfect. I have been wearing flip flops, but shoes makes a lot more sense.
I am also a big fan of the old fashioned "Colonel" type bow ties. Is wearing this offensive to the interviewer and/or make me look unprofessional?
bump
You need a white belt that matches too - with a belt buckle that has a circumference of a basketball. I would also rock a fedora with a feather on it, and by all means, rock the Colonel. I almost forgot - go sockless.
Most excellent.
Now if you don't mind, can we discuss how to achieve community college associates degree --> IBD --> CEO GS?
But of course....you must join GS, rotate every desk possible (you'll get much use of the kneepads) and make MD -> Partner status. All during which you must become 5'6" and lose any and all hair on your head. Wait - I almost forgot.....you must proclaim you are doing God's work.
Tuxedo. Nothing says class like a baby blue tuxedo kids.
On the other hand, it IS possible for someone to have substantial internship experience while still having a lot of fun and getting laid. Jus sayin'
Totally agree with you - I was one of those fortunate individuals. My post was not intended to insult - it was to begin a campaign to end bashing and whining on this site. Instead of moaning about people's accomplishments, people should take that time and fucking do something with it..
Your post was cool until that part.
Maybe it's just me, but most of the people that I know who founded or co-founded startups are no fucking mutes. They are the funnest, most social, and hardest working people I know.. Doubt any of them scored close to 1600 on their SATs either.. I dunno where you got your generalization from.
Again, let me reiterate my point - I am by no means ridiculing people who start companies - they are the very people I work with in my current job. It was a rash example, not intended to be taken literally. If you started 5 companies, you shouldn't be wasting time on league tables for IBD - that was my point.
Yeah, shitting on non-targets and MMs is insane. In an anonymous setting such as this forum, people let themselves go, but in the real professional world it is inconceivable to shit (publicly) on other banks.
Great post Jimmy. There are a number of the certified users on here that have been working to discourage those types of posts for a while now, and I think things have gotten a hell of a lot better than they used to be. Still, we need a reminder like this every once in a while for all the newbies. Silver banana to you, welcome to the site. I'd also encourage you to get certified if you're comfortable with it. Nice to have another PE/VC guy here, seems like the traders have been taking over recently :)
Thank you CaptK - yes I have seen how to become certified so I will be sending an email to Patrick to do so. I certainly agree things have gotten better - but there is still a large amount of bullshit involved (but hey, might as well prep the prospectives early on). Glad to become a part of the site, looking forward to helping whoever possible, as many of you have for me.
What a great Friday post, really needed a breather! Been staring into my screen non-stop for the past two days. Looking forward to more of these wake-up calls from now on, if you will. Def worth a SB. Much appreciated again
Mad respect for this post.
Seems people always ask the same questions... Don't they know how to use the search function? They want to get into banking, yet can't do a bit of research on their own without asking for help... Seriously guys, wake up.
I'm an engineering student and want to work finance never had any formal financial education. IB sounds exciting, yet do I come here asking all kinds of garbage questions? NO! I use my resources, ffriend Google and do my own DD without pissing people off.
Good post Jimmy.
Have a nice productive weekend
Welcome to the mad house. SB.
Jimmy,
I have some serious questions for you, if you don't mind. Could you discuss how you ended up in and the transition to VC from IBD. Also, what type of VC fund are you at and what are your days normally like. I know M&A is where you want to be for PE, but what would you say is important for a VC analyst to know or skillset they need to have. Thanks.
Absolutely....quick and dirty version, more to follow....
My middle market experience was in the healthcare capacity - and fortunately for me I was able to work on a variety of deals. The experience was so robust that I was virtually a shoe-in for a variety of PE gigs (after stellar interview performance and relationship management). However, it was in my internships that I developed my passion for early stage investing (and specifically healthcare - which is what I covered in my HF internship). Even luckier for me, a teammate on my college team was the son of a very successful tech entrepreneur - who had ties / connections to some of the top VC shops. Networking with my boy's father led to several phone conversations with said VC's and ensuing introductions to VC's in the healthcare focus (as this is what I wanted to do). What I began to realize was the majority of the players at these firms were Phd's or had some sort of medical background, which was a limitation for me - at first. The biggest addition in breaking past the entry barriers was killing the "fit" portion of the interview. Would you be able to engage the entrepreneur? How are you at building / maintaining relationships, etc.? These things go much further in the VC world than if you can crank out an IRR on a medical device that does not yet exist. Technicals are what they are - especially at the pree-seed and seed rounds of investing, which is a huge part of what is done behind the scenes and a financial model does not do a deal justice at this point (the most important part of the technical aspect is that I had an understanding of what the fuck was going on - which came from my banking gig). Financial modeling is relatively limited @ a VC - unless you are at a shop like Sequoia which might as well be a PE house.
If people would like, I can create a day in the life blog of a VC associate - similarly to what I believe was done for HF a while back. Let me know and I will act accordingly - and certainly expand on my background and how I broke into VC further.
Great experience....and a blog is a great idea ( I am sure you are going to get 100 responses to that effect so if your serious about doing it, you might as well say yes now). Users on this site love hearing about other posters experiences because it gives them a more realistic picture of the industry (I pray no one who reads this site says the want to change the world when in an interview) and shows them what a person can accomplish with hard work. I'm not even in IBD/VC nor do I have a particular interest in it, but I will gladly read it because I enjoy learning about other people's experiences and it helps me give other people advice.
OP you mentioned Harvard Yale Princeton I noticed you ordered them that way why not Harvard Princeton Yale. Is Yale more prestigious than Princeton? TY
blastoise, I think it was a typo. I mean, come on, everyone knows that Princeton>Yale
I don't know what's prestigious about going to school in new haven, ct. Although I know you are good for a few laughs, the prestige question is probably better suited to people who give a fuck about that.
Woah woah woah, maybe I've been getting the wrong impression here, doesn't EVERYBODY on Wall Street care about prestige? I mean, come on, Warren Buffet went to community college and Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard and look where they are! They're sure as heck not on Wall Street. ;)
So, so happy this post went up. Bravo, sir.
Thank you for the support, sir
First off - congrats on the MM tech gig (love to hear my fellow non targets getting ready to fuck this pedigreed industry right in the piehole). Enjoy yourself man - I'm not quite sure you understand you just sold your soul to the devil. Party hard now, fuck chicks and get drunk. You will still do this in banking, but not to the extent you can now. and for God's sake - establish an eating and workout regime so you don't turn into a fat fuck in 3 months (it will only make your time worse).
I don't know if I got "past" not having an advanced degree, but I leverage my intangible attributes that I hoped (and ended up did) making up for what I lacked from a degree standpoint. The next step for me probably would be to return for an MBA (which at this point prestige does matter - sigh) - but if I would be able to move vertically without, I would of course consider that route. Pay structures at VC's vary - due to the fact they are all so different. I can tell you I make what a PE associate would make a name brand shop ( I will go more into this in the blog eventually - I just wanted to get back to your solid questions before this forum is flooded). I'm not going to lie - pedigree is important in VC's, but it is not the end all be all. People always reference networking and building a brand for yourself, and I feel this is often overlooked. When you come out of your banking gig, your technical skills are virtually the same as all the other monkeys - what's different is your attitude. Do you think you are entitled to work in PE/VC/HF JUST because you did banking? Did you let let fact that you made ~160k/year out of college change you? VC guys are generally nerds, so they don't expect some BSD with a Gekko attitude to walk in and crush an LBO model in an interview. They want to see if you can be the guy to retain an entrepreneur, to go to a VC show and represent the company with what really matters. Again, I will go into this further. Also - some headhunters are good, but be weary of them. They just want to put as many people as possible in front of a client. I have heard some success stories with GLOCAP, but those douchebags didn't give me a look bc I wasnt Harvard -> GS TMT and honestly I don't know if half their postings are real. As time goes on, I will recommend headhunters I know have actually been helpful in the VC space.
Thanks man, I appreciate all of your input. I will be enjoying myself for the next 6 months with only one class left to take after this semester. I have a ton of questions for you, but I will wait until you post a blog because I am sure you will address a lot of my questions. If you decide not to put together a blog, I will shoot you a PM, if you don't mind.
Good stuff Jimmy. I would be interested to hear your perspective on the IB --> VC route with a little more detail. I am in banking at a bulge bracket. I have been contacted by some headhunters and that process is all well and good I suppose, but do you (or anyone else) know the best strategy towards getting into west coast VC from NYC bulge bracket IBD? Please compare and contrast your daily work in VC with the days of your banking stint. I'm so damn sick of staring at a computer - I want to have a more people-oriented job, which I have decided will be best served in VC...would that seem appropriate? I don't want to be a number cruncher anymore. Also, I did a small VC internship during college, so I'm hoping that somehow differentiates me from the typical banker.
Please expand if possible as well on the pay (approximate fund size at your place of work, salary + bonus range?).
Good work Jimmy, glad to have you aboard.
Fine, you worked hard to get where you are, but do you honestly think that getting into a target school or a good internship is easy? It takes as much hard work and commitment as any other long-term investment.
I'm glad you made it and that you're proud of how you made it, but don't rip on others, especially those who had massively different experiences than yourself.
Otherwise, this post is merely a pat on your own back. 'good work on outsmarting those smart kids, lad!'
Dude are you retarted? This post is not to pat myself on the back. If I want a pat on the back I'll go out and get laid. The reason I did this is to encourage people to stop worrying about things that really don't matter.
I will be answering questions tomorrow and will begin the blog - glad to see everyone is on board with this. And Billions, if you don't like the posts, don't fucking read them. and get off WSO at 3 am and get some fucking pussy and stop ruining it for people this can and will help.
I think this thread sets a record for most times OP mentioning that he gets laid...congrats on all the sex bro!
this sounds like one massive "dude bro maaaan life is all about getting laid man dude bro man drink more dude bro maaan", or am I wrong? Deep meaningful stuff. Let's replace one superficial idiocy with another?
yes I think the OP thinks he is the first employee in the finance industry to ever have had sex.
Both of you need to relax - it is called humor and pointing out that there are more important things in life than ruining your life to ultimately be rejected at a brand name shop off the bat. You're cleary missing the point of starting this - when I took time out of my busy schedule to offer point of view of someone who actually transitioned from non targer -> IB -> VC - not someone who probably still lives in their mother's basement and works at AXA Advisors.
Again, as I said earlier - let's get this back on track and not make this another ridiculous forum that generally exists on this site.
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