A&M Finance or UT Econ?
I was accepted to the business school (Mays) at Texas A&M, but was not accepted into McCombs at UT (accepted to Liberal Arts). I am aware that you can transfer into McCombs after your freshman year if you have something like a 3.8+, but let's just say I don't make it after my first year. Is it worth attending UT and risking it? How does an Econ degree from UT compare to a Finance degree from A&M in terms of job options?
Thanks.
A finance degree from Mays is slightly stronger than an Econ degree from UT (at least from a recruitment standpoint).
However, the internal transfer GPA at UT was 3.7 last year (http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BBA/Prospective/Statistics.aspx) and McCombs >>>>>> Mays
also, for the sake of argument, let's say you decide not to do banking, or even finance, a UT econ degree is going to be viewed better than an A&M degree on the whole. Maybe in Texas the perception is different though.
This is a good point. What you want to do and where you want to do it will make a huge difference. The A&M network in Texas will make up for the fact that UT is considered a stronger school (if you are Econ at UT). However, this is likely different nationally.
Comparing the business schools as it pertains to IB, I know A&M rarely places into the front office in Houston, and you generally get back office or mid office. UT consistently places well into the front office in Houston (and some in NY and SF).
Now, if you want to work for an oil company or something, it may be a safer bet to do Mays.
A&M places into Houston Front Office well. They had 9 this year into IB in Houston and UT had around 11. Granted UT has better national placement in NY, SF, etc.. but A&M is far more an equal in Houston.
Can any UT students or alum chime in on the difficulty of getting a 3.7+ freshman year?
Definitely UT here, placement for all finance positions is far far stronger out of UT than it is out of A&M. Agree that Mays has better options than Econ out of UT (mainly since business OCR is restricted to McCombs students at UT and can't be accessed by Liberal Arts students), but nationally, UT is recognized as a top-quality state school, whereas A&M is not.
If you keep focused on your studies (i.e. don't pledge, don't skip classes constantly), you should have no problem getting a 3.7+. You're just taking broad survey courses your first year anyways. The only classes required for transfer into McCombs are Micro + Macro and Government I think (hopefully you have AP credit and don't have to take Micro or Macro). They prefer at least one semester of Calculus, I believe, which can be harder. Just load up your schedule with your easiest intro classes other than these and you'll have a 3.7.
For what it's worth, the reason that the 3.8 requirement for transfer went down to 3.7 is because the school implemented a + / - grading system a couple years ago, which has put some pressure on the top GPAs. But for context, you can have 3 Bs and 7 As and still have a 3.7 (more likely 3 B+s / 3 A-s / 4 As). This is totally achievable.
EDIT: Put it this way, if you're going to be among the people vying for front-office jobs, you're gonna have to have a 3.7 GPA your first two years anyways, so if you can't achieve this, it doesn't really matter.
Some great points there, thanks. For the record, you need Calc I and Calc II in addition to Micro and Macro to be able to transfer in. http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BBA/Prospective/Admission/Internal-Transf…
Could someone tell me about college grading in general? I'm looking at this from a high school perspective, and achieving a 3.7 or 3.8 does not seem feasible unless I have zero social life. I thought that was all high A's, but you're telling me that a 3.7 is some B+s and A-s? I see that the mean GPA within McCombs is 3.5.
EDIT: Just for reference sake, I have higher SAT and ACT scores than the average admitted freshman.
College grading is calculated by taking an average of your individual course grades weighted by the number of credits (also known as hours at some institutions) for each class. Schools like UT are on the + / - system, which means that letter grades translate into GPAs as follows:
A: 4.00 A-: 3.67 B+: 3.33 B: 3.00 B-: 2.67 C+: 2.33 C: 2.00 C-: 1.67 etc.
Generally, all of you introductory courses will be weighted the same amount (at UT, that usually means they are 3 hours worth of credit). The average college student takes 5 classes (or 15 hours) per semester. You can do the math:
Say you had 7 As and 3 Bs. That means your GPA would be calculated as follows:
7 classes x 3 hours each x 4.00 = 84 +3 classes x 3 hours each x 3.00 = 27 Total Grade Points = 111 (sum of the two numbers above) Total Credit Hours = 10 classes x 3 hours each = 30
GPA: 111 / 30 = 3.7
You can change the numbers around in spreadsheet and see how it works out, but you definitely don't have to have all As. And you don't have to kill your social life to have a 3.7 by any strech of the imagination. I know plenty of people with healthy social lives that had 3.8+ GPAs. Just don't slack off in your classes.
College isn't as hard as you think it will be when you're in high school.
Its all about figuring out how you study. I did the Fraternity thing, which then got me involved in other groups and was very time demanding. Which then resulted in consecutive all nighters (2 or 3 days with 0 zero sleep) to keep my grades > 3.0. You'll find its all about time management, scheduling your courses proerply, and again finding out how YOU study. That being said, if you do want to get involved in campus I'd say wait till you have a strong GPA base, and go from there.
FInally, being born and raised in Texas, I know Aggies are known for going out of there way to help, but UT guys will do the same thing (Aggies are just a lot louder about helping, not a judgment I work with Aggies and they are all good guys)
NOTE: I went to a much less respected state school in Texas, and I work for a commercial bank, not IB/PE.
I'd pick ut even without Mccombs. I'm in the same boat with my college as well.
Agreed, it's just a much better brand nationally. A&M is really only well-respected in Texas.
Thanks for the replies NorthSider, they have cleared a lot of things up. SB'ed. Looks like I will be heading to UT after all.
I did a little research, and if worst comes to worst and I don't get into McCombs, I can major in Economics and get a minor in Finance through the Business Economics Option Program, and then get a Business Foundations Certificate on top of that. Anybody have any thoughts on that (BEOP/BFP)?
If you can, do BEOP over BFP. Business foundations is just watered down versions of the base classes (the accounting one is both financial and cost in one, for example). BEOP allows you to take the full version of the course along with McCombs students, so you learn a lot more.
The only risk with Econ is that their recruiting is average at best (and nowhere near McCombs). You don't have access to OCR, but this Spring they did open up the career fair to all students at UT. If you are proactive, you will be able to network and hopefully get a position that way. You will also likely be able to attend any brief and meet you want. You won't have access to the schedule posted on OCR, but all you would have to do is ask a friend who is in McCombs to tell you when it is happening as they generally don't check what school you are in at the door.
Just curious, where exactly do those numbers come from?
It sounds like you have made up your mind but I want to throw my two cents in there anyway.
Don't underestimate the quality of a degree from A&M. Though I might be slightly bias as I went there and majored in finance. UT is still considered a notch above for finance sure. But where A&M lacks in ranking and OCR for BB's, the difference can definitely be made up for in the Aggie network. We have a surprisingly strong presence in the finance world and that does include IB. Plus alumni will generally go out of there way to help you and our network is considered one of the strongest and largest amongst schools.
Plus we also have a program specifically geared towards placing students in top consulting and banking firms. If you can maintain a 3.8+ you would be in a spot to enter that program where not only do they place you with top firms but also provide mentoring.
There is plenty more I can go on about but I'll leave it at that for now.
Disclaimer: I'm going in to commercial banking because I screwed my gpa up pretty bad.
UT all day
I agree that, all else being equal, I would go with Texas econ over A&M finance for post graduation finance placement. However, I'd like to point out that A&M has an excellent national reputation. They are an AAU school with top tier research, excellent athletics (particularly football), has a fantastic engineering, architecture and agriculture reputation, and is one of 2 non-military academies (along with Virginia Tech) that has a Corps of Cadets.
So to say that Texas A&M has a weak national reputation as a university is incorrect. I'm from Virginia and have no friends, family, or any other connection to A&M.
It's definitely true that A&M has a strong engineering reputation nationwide. However, given the context of this post, I assumed we were talking about finance reputation, which I can say is limited here in NY.
I guess I have to weigh the risk here. Do I go with the high risk, high reward scenario (UT), or low risk, low(er) reward scenario (A&M)?
I'm gathering that the general consensus is to go with UT, because there is a (good?) chance I can transfer into McCombs after freshman year, and even if I end up in Econ I won't be that much worse off than a Finance major at A&M if I play my cards right. However, that being said, I'm also gathering that if I do choose A&M, I won't be at a major disadvantage, and can certainly land a solid offer if I work hard and take advantage of the programs Mays offers (Titans of Investing, Aggies on Wall Street, Horizons, etc.). Do y'all think this is an accurate summary?
For you A&M guys - Would it be worthwhile to try and do Business Honors and Finance?
Also, I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread; it's been really helpful.
Here's a benchmark of the difficulty of transfering into McCombs: in 2012, 20% of Liberal Arts graduates completed their degree with at least a 3.7 GPA. GPAs generally trend downwards as college goes on, so this could be a bit higher for freshmen (with greater variability), but I'd say 20% is the floor.
Business Honors would defnitely be worth it at A&M. Slightly more rigorous but the opportunities far exceed the extra work.
Also as an A&M guy I think you should choose UT if you think you can get into McCombs. However if not, I dont think you would be at such a disadvantage doing finance at A&M. The effort you would spend trying to get into McCombs could be spent already in the major you want and being part of programs that take elite students and get them placed in high finance jobs. A finance major with a high GPA, is involved in Horizons or Titans or Aggies on WS,plus a little networking has a great shot at placing into IB. I have multiple friends that did exactly this and have secured SA and then full time positions.
I'd make the argument that if you're good enough to maintain this level of performance at A&M, you'll have no trouble getting into McCombs. Once you're in McCombs, you have a greater shot of obtaining an IB job than you do at A&M. But BusinessSense is right, both are great options if you want to end up in finance.
I think these two replies settle it for me.
I guess it all boils down to whether I think I can make it into McCombs after my freshman year or not.
I am a sophomore at McCombs and I can assure you that if you have a good work ethic you'll get in no problem. Calc is the only class to worry about and it's very manageable if you fill up the rest of your schedule with easy core classes.
This. I know a bunch of guys who went to UT, did the greek thing, and still got into McCombs. Not sure if they'll let you place out of calc with AP classes, but do it if you can. Recruiting at UT is extremely strong for Houston front office.
I can't say I'm the biggest fan, but Mays does place some people. Several Mays people at Evercore in Houston, which usually results in more.....a spreading plague haha
One thing that has not been discussed and is worth thinking about is the opportunities you will have to intern while at school in Austin. There are a good number of VC, PE, IB, HF, PWM, opportunities for UT undergrads in Austin. This allows you a lot of opportunities to build your resume for the big SA spot.
Also very true.
If you can't maintain a 3.8 your first year at UT in liberal arts, you won't get into banking anyway. I would say declare an econ major, go to UT, take relatively easy classes and work your ass off, and then transfer to McCombs. I know TONS of people working in IBD from McCombs who transferred in. It doesn't even make a difference.
In regards to the number of people from UT in IBD this year, it's about 25-30 give or take. I don't think there are as many in Houston as previous years, but the number has probably remained consistent. If you do a solid job at UT and have a few internships before junior year, try to transfer into BHP/apply for FAP - you'll be set for Houston and will have a decent shot at NY.
Just out of curiosity, when y'all say take "easy core classes," does that mean that every core class is easy, or that there are specific easy ones that I should seek out and take? If the latter, how might I go about finding out which classes are breezes and which might require some work?
Most are easy. To confirm that you're taking an easy class with a good grade distribution:
http://myedu.com/
.
I'll also chime in and say this...If you go to UT and can't make into McCombs you were not meant for IB. This will initially bring tears to your eyes until you realize that Austin>College Station both socially and in opportunities.
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