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Comments (72)

  • Incoming Analyst in IB - Cov
Oct 5, 2021 - 3:19pm

This is why MBA associates get a bad rap. Keep up with the news. GS pays the most out of BBs after their recent pay bump.

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 4, 2021 - 8:32pm

Are you turning down GS for (MS/JPM/EVR/CVP)? Because I know multiple people who've done that. But GS -> JEFF doesn't make sense, regardless of how great a bank JEFF is. If you really don't like GS, the JEFF seat will always be open.

  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 4, 2021 - 9:22pm

No. Don't do this. If you decide you hate your group at GS or the firm, it's much easier to move around internally or "downward," than upward in any way. Please reconsider, this is absurd.

Edit: That was too strong. It is not necessarily "absurd," to decline a GS -- for example -- offer for a BofA group you really want. Broadly, there are other factors that are worth considering than just brand name. But, in most cases, if you're still exploring IB I submit that starting with a GS return offer is probably the best position to be in with respect to FT recruiting. It may not be massively more impressive than a Barclays one, but the name is still useful on a resume. 

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  • VP in IB - Gen
Oct 4, 2021 - 9:09pm

No one gives a f**k.  you will be forgotten by the next day unless the hiring manager is a psychopath and you apply back to his/her team.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Oct 5, 2021 - 8:17am

No they do remember this shit I promise you. The firm is salty af. I worked at GS and a friend of mine a year below me at school turned down an internship offer and went to an arguably better internship. He hated his time there and so wanted to FT recruit at GS and they turned him away so hard. It was the HR folks gatekeeping. He literally only got through the door after some family friend MD pushed for him and all he was given was an interview with DCM

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  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 4, 2021 - 9:54pm

God I can't stand interns commenting on things they don't know and giving garbage advice.

I left banking 2 years ago-here's my take:

it totally depends what you want to do post banking. People talking about, "it's easier to move downstream than up" that's true for no name banks, but if you are talking about a good middle market, EB, or any BB, lateraling is going to be just not that difficult for someone decently motivated and competent. Everyone is looking for an experienced hire in this industry because banks lose experienced hires constantly.
 

Frankly any BB is splitting hairs-"did you work in banking for a good bank?" is the barrier for most roles and there's going to be a ton of self selection determining you and your peers next career moves.

I know analysts who had mental breaks and didn't make it a year, ones who left for PhD's, JDs, ones who went to startups, Corp Dev, mm PE, megafund PE etc. The only places that will actually care enough to split hairs between Goldman and another BB are some megafunds and a select few ex-Goldman partner started shops. Otherwise, Goldman or Baml or whatever you chose, you still are going to be evaluated by a headhunter and they will care about your target school, GPA, standardized test scores, rest of your resume, modeling test given, etc. 

Firms don't hold blacklists if you chose another firm over them-it can only haunt you if you screwed someone or acted like a snake and someone has a person vendetta. More likely than not, they completely forgot who you are. Most the kids my bank have offers to I could not tell you their names a week later. Also, I have numerous MD's who didn't know my name after 2 years despite working on their transactions.
 

A banking stint can be two years of your life-choosing a bank that either gives you a better vibe for culture, is in a sector you like, or is in the location you will be happiest is way way more important than the specific bank if you are talking about any reputable bank in the long run. No one obsesses over GS versus citi outside this forum. I have absolute moron friends at GS and genius friends at middle market banks. Looking back 2+ years the best decision will be the one where you weren't completely miserable and were able to learn things to further the next step of your career.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Oct 5, 2021 - 8:59am

I agree with most of this except GS is saltier than you think (at least if the HR folks or campus reps remember you), and that GS does give you the benefit of the doubt over a middle market bank. It's up to you to capitalize on it - you'll be outed as a fraud if you don't measure up but you do get the benefit of the doubt. That means something to anyone considering GS versus a Piper Sandler or some shit.

And for buyside recruiting in general, if you're gonna go BB, you should really go to GS or a few select groups at other BBs. There was a post not too long ago aggregating buyside placements buy bank and it was not even close. Not least of which because GS has no M&A group that steals your modeling out of the coverage teams.  

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 5, 2021 - 10:29am

Again, going to pushback on this-if you want to do buyside recruiting I'd argue there are a ton of places that make more sense over Goldman. buyside recruiting you will not have meaningfully different outcomes for any umm or mm fund coming from many alternate places. If a shop is all ex-citi and baml people, they aren't going to give af that you worked at Goldman. Most these firms are still going to throw you a pretty aggressive modeling test and case study as well, which weeds out a ton of people. Maybe you are ex Goldman and people love to justify that their lower salary and treatment was worth it, but outside of ex-Goldman funds or a select amount of megafunds (not even all) it's just not that important.

Also, anecdotally, every friend I had that wanted to get a megafund offer got one. That said, most my non-retard friends tried to find better work-life balance, economics, or more enjoyable work than the experience a megafund offers. Just as a general disclaimer--before you take a megafund offer please give ex-employees a call and ask them if they would do it again. I have yet to speak to someone that thinks it was a great call/ they would recommend the experience.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 5, 2021 - 12:07pm

On this-a lot of the megafund people I know ended up needing to create their personal life in their 30's and were mad burned out, unable to actually really excel. Getting burned out in your 20s is not the way-you want to be in the hunt, but if your personal life is shit it's going to be really hard to go balls to the wall on a career when it matters.

Oct 5, 2021 - 2:45pm

If you really enjoy the culture and people that you are considering taking over GS, then go for it. It is all dependent on what you want now and also in the near to distant future. If you think you want to stick around in banking for more than a couple years, then I personally would place a lot more emphasis on culture and fit. No point in going to GS for only the prestige (hence, exit opps) just to never even end up leaving.

Oct 5, 2021 - 3:01pm

W/out knowing all the details influencing your decision, one thing I'd suggest you not do is go to a lower tier firm because someone - no matter how senior - told you that something in your work/educational history somehow differentiates you from the other first years (analyst or associate), and you therefore will work on better deals or with companies that are more interesting to you or whatever. People make those vague promises during the recruitment cycle all the time but it never happens. Once you're in the door you're in the generalist pool and will work on whatever the staffer tells you to work on. 

  • 3
Oct 5, 2021 - 3:25pm

That's a tough one, and I can't advise you either way, except to suggest that the optics and ethics around re-negging should be the last of your considerations, and then only if all other things are equal, which they never really are.

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Oct 5, 2021 - 3:38pm

Look, you're obviously reeling, which is understandable. But there's really no way of knowing how it'll all turn out. Who knows, people at firm where you might renege could be reading these threads, so I think you have to assume that it's very possible that old firm will find out (not just from this thread, but if you have classmates who are going to same bank or into IB in general, it's certainly possible they will share what you're doing to either your bank, or to someone who will tell your bank. The questions are, will they care, will they care enough to call GS and will GS care?

I find it surprising that there seems to be no one on this site who has reneged to go to GS, or who knows of someone who has done it, and can share that experience. But overall, seems like you're looking for a "definite answer" as to what will happen, and there just isn't one -- I have no idea, but I imagine the "odds are" you'll emerge unscathed... but I don't know what the odds are that you'll screw yourself -- 40%?  5%?  I know you're probably trying to quantify the odds that things blow up, but unless you hear from people who have done this same thing going to GS, going to be hard to calculate.

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 6, 2021 - 11:43pm

There's plenty of people who know of someone who reneged. I reneged a BB for an EB, and have 0 regrets, and have 2 buddies who reneged a firm before. However, these were for internships, but I think it shows that reneging is more common than people think, just that people rarely share that with others. And tbh, usually no one cares

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 5, 2021 - 3:44pm

Aside from other posters saying it depends what you want to do post banking, the one other point I'd say that is really just a reneging debate:

Some people are the type of people who would never renege because their word means everything to them and they view it as unethical. Others think banks have no loyalty, so you are justified in behaving in the way they do and reneging for one offer isn't a big deal. I think both camps of people are right, but only you can decide what type of person you want to be and how you will behave as a professional. If it were me I wouldn't renege because I would feel like a scumbag for doing it even if others would renege. However, this many people on this forum will say it isn't a big deal-this is ultimately a personal choice.

Oct 6, 2021 - 1:49am

Some people on this forum have the hardest time acknowledging the various factors that go into deciding on the right bank for a person. News flash: for most, it's not all about pREsTigE and eXiT oPPs. Some people actually care about finding an optimal balance of things like WLB, location, team culture, interesting industry / product group, etc.

I recently turned down a BB in SF / NY for GHL / JEF in a satellite location. Why? Because I value more than prestige and exit opps, and ultimately, even if I decide a year down the road that I DO want more prestige / better exit opps-guess what-I can do a magical thing called lateral. Sure, a MF exit two years down the road will likely be easier from GS TMT than it will be from BofA TMT, but cmon… at some level this IS splitting hairs.

At the end of the day, go with the opportunity that represents a better personal fit. What does personal fit mean? Well, it totally depends on who YOU are. Do you only care about prestige and exits? Then go with the bank that gives you that. Do you value working with people you like? Then add it to the equation! Have a strong preference for location? Factor it in!

My point is, choosing the right bank for you isn't some mathematical equation that others can calculate; it's completely dependent on your individual values. You may have to do some honest soul searching to figure out what those values are, but at the end of the day, the only wrong decision you can make is by abandoning what matters most to you.

  • Research Analyst in HF - Other
Oct 6, 2021 - 12:42pm

Seems like you made the overall best choice for you, but you seem to think you've retained full optionality down the line. I don't think you understand how lateraling later in your career affects your exit opps. Sure you can go to PJT or GS whatever 3 - 6 years down the line but the doors to a lot of big non platform hedge funds are closed to you at this point.

Granted, I highly doubt being a hedge fund junkie is an aim for you

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 6, 2021 - 1:15pm

I get extreme satisfaction knowing your hyper focus on brand and prestige will make it where you never own your own business or start your own fund. You will always be working for someone, paid very well, and lacking a personal life.

Oct 6, 2021 - 10:53am

OP has deleted their comments, so I don't know the details of the situation. If this is for an SA internship and you're dead set on going to BofA over GS, then try to use your GS offer to get a guaranteed group at BofA. It has been done before. If you care about PE recruiting, then you definitely want to be in either Sponsors/M&A/LevFin (Sponors far and away the best). Coverage groups at BofA have noticeably worse PE recruiting than these groups. In general though, you're going to get better PE recruiting at GS, regardless of which group you're in. Another thing to keep in mind, while culture at BofA is great across most groups (few outliers), hours are really bad.

As someone who went to BofA and enjoyed their experience, I can't imagine choosing it over GS. But I was mainly focused on recruiting. My friends who went to GS all had significantly greater deal experience than I did, and overall did better recruiting wise (I realize that there are more factors than just which bank you work at that affects this).

This is all pre-COVID knowledge by the way, but pretty sure what I've written is still accurate.

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  • 4
Oct 6, 2021 - 4:52pm

LMAO at some of these responses.  You fucks are insane.  Go look at Indeed, yes that catch all job board.  Even banks like GS are posting IB roles there.  They never used to do this.  There is a massive demand for talent right now, the talented employees are in the drivers seat for the first time in decades in this industry.  Deal flow is so high right now that the banks could arguably double their head count and still likely be understaffed. 

Just be respectful in your response and explain your reasonings and don't respond to HR, those fucking losers don't need to know.  Call up the MD for the group you recieved an offer from and tell them directly why you are making the decision you are making and that you are greatful for the opportunity to work for them and that you will always be available to assist them in any way you can.  I generally find that most blackballing happens because the senior people, even if they understand why you did something, they feel personally offended by it.  This idea that HR is going to black ball you is a joke unless you intentially tell them to fuck off.   Having had multiple companies myself over the years I can tell you that HR pretty much has zero say in anything, but always gets thrown under the bus for things like black balling. 

  • Intern in S&T - FI
Oct 7, 2021 - 7:13am

GS namebrand is that strong of a premium. It's fucking ridiculous. Especially considering that it seems every other buyside firm was started by GS alumni. 

  • Prospect in IB-M&A
Oct 7, 2021 - 10:33am

So OP... what did you end up doing? Stay at mid-BB, or take the plunge and said yes to GS?  

  • Associate 1 in IB-M&A
Oct 7, 2021 - 5:28pm

I'm sure I'm gonna get some MS but it just doesn't make sense to take BofA over GS, at least in plain situations. You should have v compelling reasons.

Oct 8, 2021 - 4:49pm

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  • Intern in IB - Gen
Oct 11, 2021 - 7:30pm

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