am i getting this right?

You don't need an MBA to be promoted to associate in IB... most analysts tend to leave after 2 years for PE, then after 2 years of PE go to b-school. PE hours can be just as bad or even worse than banking depending on the shop, but pay is usually better (again depends on location and shop).

AM (Asset Management) = Mutual Funds and Hedge Funds

No heresies, just a lot of over-simplification in my opinion.

I think you're overgeneralizing on hours-certain funds are known to work analysts to the bone and for screwing younger people, and plenty of people at small funds end up wearing a lot of hats and working around the clock. Same goes for pretty much every type of investing gig (PE in general is more than liquid markets and is "chunkier" due to the transactional structure).

People are also quick to generalize on hedge funds versus other types of asset management in terms of compensation as well. Who's going to make more per employee, a 10-man investment team for a mutual fund with $4bn in AUM charging 1.5% fees, or a person on a 5-man investment team for a hedge fund with $500mm in AUM charging 2&20 fees? The hedge fund has to have a 20% return to break even on a per-person basis.

There's a reason many talented investors chose to structure their funds as mutual funds rather than hedge funds (GAMCO and Fairholme come to mind) and part of it is that it's easier to raise assets because you are not limited in your investor audience.

As an aside, banking is far more than "average" money, even though you work to the bone for it, and often higher all-in for direct hires from undergrad than "traditional" asset managers (ie not alternative like PE or HF-vanilla mutual funds, bank asset management arms, etc)

The difference between mutual funds and "asset management" isn't really defined-mutual funds are a type of structure for investment vehicles (some "hedge funds" are structured as mutual funds) and asset management can fairly refer to the management of mutual funds but also any other type of vehicle (hedge funds, private equity, funds of funds, individual accounts)/asset class (real estate, as an example). In the power industry, the term asset management can mean literally "managing" "generation assets" in the sense of running the operations of a power plant.

The job titles you lay out are strangely specific and again the real world is way more varied than that. Lots of small hedge funds don't have a specific risk management person, and depending on the size of the fund and strategy it's very common for PMs to research their own ideas as well as act on ideas from other analysts. The work of an analyst also varies a lot depending on strategy-some are very quantitative even for funds that aren't "quant" in the usual sense of the word.

On MBA and CFA, it's pretty common that more senior people have one or the other.

I know it's tough because people want clear cut answers (what skills do I need? what title will I have? how much money will I make?) but the simple truth is that the finance world is way more diverse than people on WSO seem to think, and even within specific subsectors the diversity across firms/funds/groups within companies is huge.

Kenny_Powers_CFA:

No heresies, just a lot of over-simplification in my opinion.

I think you're overgeneralizing on hours-certain funds are known to work analysts to the bone and for screwing younger people, and plenty of people at small funds end up wearing a lot of hats and working around the clock. Same goes for pretty much every type of investing gig (PE in general is more than liquid markets and is "chunkier" due to the transactional structure).

People are also quick to generalize on hedge funds versus other types of asset management in terms of compensation as well. Who's going to make more per employee, a 10-man investment team for a mutual fund with $4bn in AUM charging 1.5% fees, or a person on a 5-man investment team for a hedge fund with $500mm in AUM charging 2&20 fees? The hedge fund has to have a 20% return to break even on a per-person basis.

There's a reason many talented investors chose to structure their funds as mutual funds rather than hedge funds (GAMCO and Fairholme come to mind) and part of it is that it's easier to raise assets because you are not limited in your investor audience.

As an aside, banking is far more than "average" money, even though you work to the bone for it, and often higher all-in for direct hires from undergrad than "traditional" asset managers (ie not alternative like PE or HF-vanilla mutual funds, bank asset management arms, etc)

The difference between mutual funds and "asset management" isn't really defined-mutual funds are a type of structure for investment vehicles (some "hedge funds" are structured as mutual funds) and asset management can fairly refer to the management of mutual funds but also any other type of vehicle (hedge funds, private equity, funds of funds, individual accounts)/asset class (real estate, as an example). In the power industry, the term asset management can mean literally "managing" "generation assets" in the sense of running the operations of a power plant.

The job titles you lay out are strangely specific and again the real world is way more varied than that. Lots of small hedge funds don't have a specific risk management person, and depending on the size of the fund and strategy it's very common for PMs to research their own ideas as well as act on ideas from other analysts. The work of an analyst also varies a lot depending on strategy-some are very quantitative even for funds that aren't "quant" in the usual sense of the word.

On MBA and CFA, it's pretty common that more senior people have one or the other.

I know it's tough because people want clear cut answers (what skills do I need? what title will I have? how much money will I make?) but the simple truth is that the finance world is way more diverse than people on WSO seem to think, and even within specific subsectors the diversity across firms/funds/groups within companies is huge.

1) In my opinion, it's not necessarily correct to say that the CFA is not a golden ticket into Mutual Funds-HFs. On the contrary, the CFA is basically a pre-requisite for any of these positions (especially mutual funds). Getting in without the CFA (unless you have a top/good MBA) is virtually impossible. The problem with it is that the CFA ALONE will never get you in, especially from the back office. When you apply, people will expect you to have it - that's a bare minimum. What ELSE do you bring to the table?

For Asset Management in general, think of the CFA as almost akin to having an undergrad degree - it's something that won't get you noticed... but not having one will make it 100x harder.

2) Asset Management IB divisions will usually outsource their services as advisors (collecting management fees) to smaller funds - they don't necessarily have their own funds. Occasionally, banks will get involved in the AM game though, and have their own funds.

3) Depends on the fund... but it'll be either: Equity/Credit Research Associate/M&A Analyst -> Analyst (Fund) -> Portfolio Manager. Portfolio management's about 8-12 years down the road depending on the fund. For hedge funds, M&A analysts will usually go through the MBA (due to the lack of the CFA and less experience with public markets), whereas certain ER associate jobs (assuming you do the CFA during your stint as an associate) can land you into hedge funds directly (due to your experience with public markets, the CFA, specific sectors and your experience with drafting investment recommendations).

4) Yes - don't expect to work IBD hours in risk. Probably standard market hours (40-45 hrs).

thanks a TON to clarify those points! excellent, i'll be taking the CFA (love that stuff in general) and the master (same reason as be4 BUT also because of the excellent network provided which i realized being pretty essential!). just one more last thing:

Is there any job which is a mix between risk management and portfolio management?