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Hi hehehehehe, whoops, looks like nobody chimed in here.... maybe one of these discussions below is relevant:
More suggestions...
If those topics were completely useless, don't blame me, blame my programmers...
Hey would like to know if you're an undergrad and any tips on now I can make it to FO roles without a MBA or CFA? Im struggling here cause it's difficult to find opportunities that allow UG peeps to move ahead.
Currently working in BO of a BB.
I'm an undergrad and I haven't cleared any level of the CFA.
The only way to go about it is networking through cold calling. Try your luck at every single bank. Try to form real relationships with the guys you get along with well, they can help you at times more than you'd expect.
Also, where in the back office? Is it opps or related to finance? Would play a large role in how firms will perceive you as an applicant.
Hi, I currently work in BO (KPO set up) for a BB.
Have been a top rated analyst here and had been notified in few months of my joining that I'd be sent for an internship at the onshore offices once I hit 18-24 months mark of required work ex.
However, things haven't quite materialized yet. During review meetings, I've always been told that it's hard to predict when it would happen but they've been asking me to wait since the last year or so.
Historically, analysts who got onshore internships had 2 years of work-ex. And I'm about to touch 3.
I've taken the WFH time to actively network with FO analysts and associates on LinkedIn and have managed to (almost) crack a FO offer where the HR isn't ready to offer any hike at all. I currently make 12 lpa. And she insists that I should appreciate the fact that I'd be moving to a FO set up and generally people from BO have taken paycuts but she's letting me have my current fixed comp.
Given this situation, should I accept the domestic boutique IB offer without any hike or should I stay put at my current firm and wait for a BB internship to materialize.
Thanks again for all your advise and time. Really appreciate it.
The choice is for you to make. If I was in your place, I'd definitely accept the FO offer.
The internship you're speaking about has ridiculous low chances of converting to FT roles. If it's a boutique top tier bank (such as avendus and o3), I'd not give it a second thought. You can move to PE post 1-2 years of that and earn much better.
To add to this, the HR is right. There are tons of KPO type roles in India whereas FO roles are rare. Tons of Analysts from the KPO-type roles at the BB would kill to be where you are today.
Where do you find these FO IB roles, maybe I haven't looked in the right places. They're virtually non existent here in India.
These openings are rarely put out in the open. You need to network with the folks at the firms to know when one arises. It's very relationship and luck based.
Can you tell us about your comp?
It's in the standard IB pre-mba analyst range - 8-12 lakhs per annum. This is without bonus which is about 50% of base.
So like ~20 to 25K USD all-in? Is the salary similar the MF PE shops for pre-MBA associates?
If my total fixed comp is 12 lpa which includes basic salary of 5 lpa, HRA, LTA and City comp allowance as the remaining balance; then my bonus % would be based on 5 lpa or 12 lpa?
From what Ive been told my brother's indian friend (working at Centerview, went to HYP), overwhelming majority of indians in high-finance came from money. Like they were top 1-3% back home. It's far less about a meritocracy in India, and more about who you know. How true is this?
This is partially true. Most folks in high-finance do come from the top 1% of Indians, but that's not only because of connections but also because often but not always they are the only ones who can afford top tier education which helps one get more 'polished'.
There are some firms that are known to hire solely through connections but these are generally IB firms and not PE shops. Ones I can think of off the top of my head are JM and Axis.
Lastly, while connections do play a role for PE shops, it's often merit(which is good valuation skills) + a relationship. At the end, it is a relationship-driven business.
not OP but I am an Indian who's studying in the US and will be interning in IB this summer. I think there are two different answers to the question:
1) For Indians in High-Finance in India:
Most of the front-office offers at the top firms (such as the BBs) go to the top students at IITs (undergrad) and IIMs (MBA). You only get into these institutes by merit and I can't pay my way through them by donating a million dollars. Not long ago my family and I reached out to most of the firms regarding an internship for me. We have business relationships with almost all of them and most of them said they only hire from IIM and don't take other interns. So, only those that are actually capable (not saying I am not but instead just that I wasn't at an IIM, although I do plan on applying to the IIMs) could have gotten them. Although the BBs used to do this previously, all of them said no because of heightened risks and policies after the GS 1MDB scandal. However, it got relatively easier to get an internship at the firms below them (MM banks and the Balance sheet banks). I eventually got an internship at a pretty well-known firm. However, this was quid pro quo and there was no expectation of an FT offer from this internship. The FT offers only went to the IIM graduates.
2) For Indians in high-finance abroad:
I would say that yes, most of the Indians working in IB in the US are usually those from high-earning Indian families. This is because we were sent to the best private schools in India where they were exposed to international curriculums and american culture. This is helpful because IB is very front office and its important to be conversational during interviews, networking, and work in general. Thus, its difficult to be successful during recruitment if you have an extremely strong accent/broken english or are unable to relate to those already at the firms (which are predominantly white males). Another fact is that you need a strong resume to get a junior year internship and most of the international students usually intern in their home countries for the years prior to the junior summer since its difficult to get one in US as an international student. Unfortunatley, most of the internships in India can only be gotten through connections (an example of this was given in the paragraph above). People who come from poorer families don't have the means to get those internships and thus in general have weaker resumes. Also, education in US is extremely expensive and universities rarely give scholarships. So, people in India can only go to afford to attend these is if their families have deep pockets. Thus, for those that broke into IB in USA, they usually come from privileged families.
Source: My family and myself.
To further add to the helpful chap above, the only BBs that hired from IITs/BITS for pure FO IB roles were MS (this was so the placecom allowed MS to come take students for Tech roles before any other company could) and CS. After the death of the Head of IB at MS, the new heads have decided to go against this. CS is the only BB as of today that hires CAs/Engineers that are fresh out of Undergrad but they barely have an m&a practice.
Further, while connections do help a lot with getting opportunities at Domestic/MM shops, it's not the only way, even if you're not from an IIM. I managed to get an opportunity at both a BB and a domestic shop without any connections. It's all about impressing the right people.
TIA for offering help!
Currently an MSc Fin. At a UK top 10, looking for opps in India due to personal reasons
Can you elaborate on how you went about initiating the cold calling process in India, from how you approach the filtering process for who to contact and how you conduct some initial research on them? (Is it the standard LinkedIn search followed by cold emails to standard email formats?)
Is it just analysts/associates or all levels of the hierarchy that you send initial cold emails to?
I generally went with the standard LinkedIn search and a standard e-mail template with slight personalization here and there.
Cast as wide a net you can - email people across all levels because getting a reply isn't easy.
Also, I think GS has a program for their KPO type role where they take MSc Fin grads, you can try you luck there (Bangalore office). Most other banks don't really value it much.
Thanks once again!
Could you shed some light on how your interviews went and how they were structured?
Apart from the standard technicals, how did you pitch yourself successfully against IIM grads? Were there any skills to supplement the efforts you put into networking that gave you an absolute advantage relative to peers?
Can I break in if I have an undergrad degree from a US school?
You can but the likelihood of you getting a decent gig depends on which school. Irrespective, you'll still have to network and struggle to get interviews, just like anyone else. I know of someone who did his undergrad at a top 3 US school and struggled for 1.5 years to get a job.
How open are investment banks in India (both the BBs and domestic boutiques) to hiring someone with IB exp. (analyst level) from the US but no MBA?
It's generally looked at positively. Are you from a decent university? This plays a large role too. Just make sure you don't come to India too early - get at least 2 years of experience in the US for it to have some value.
Not really. I mean it’s ranked ~ 80th in US (with the business school ranked near the fifties) but I’ll be surprised if the avg. population has heard about it. That’s my biggest concern. My resume is great, I have a really high GPA and will be at a top bank this summer. So the name of my undergrad is probably the only negative in my mind.
Could you recommend me what should I do if I want to get into an BB in India I am a undergrad at IIT Bombay
I think MS and Bx used to hire from IIT-B. That's your best shot. The cold emailing route to get into BBs is very unlikely to work.
For front office roles
Let's be real. A lot of the "high paying jobs" in India are based off who you know. Not much of a surprise. I know of someone who got a GS (I think) offer his freshman year summer from a target uni (a US target, Indian-American born) through his father's connections. Granted this kid was the real deal and last I heard he's at a US office in a Tier 1 city: UMM/MF PE right out of uni and is trying to break into HFs I believe.
Was this internship in the Indian office? While I agree most high paying jobs in India are only attainable through family network, GS/MS/JPM have never made an exception for anybody at least in the past 10 years.
Yes, it was a GS office. Won't say which city.
⬛️📍
May I know what step by step procedure (networking and non-networking route) you followed to impress these folks?
Would love to connect over a call or on linkedin. Can you please share your linkedin profile?
I am on similar boat, looking for an internship in BB or elite boutique firms in India.
There's no formula to this. Keep hustling and working hard. I'm not comfortable with sharing my LinkedIn but feel free to DM to chat.
Hey can I dm you too, looking for a bit of advice when it comes to breaking into Investment Banking in India?
.
Same comment due to an error I think.
DMed, please check.
Hii! I am an undergraduate Commerce student from a prestigious Commerce college in Mumbai. I recently got rejected for the role of summer intern at Morgan Stanlry for failing in their pre-interview test. What are the chances do you think that I have got of getting into a BB IB for a summer internship. Is connecting via Linkedin a good enough measure to ensure a good network? Please could you guide me regarding how to network? My friend got into MS as his father knew a MD there, is knowing a person on the inside, the only way to get into a BB IB in India?
Your chances of getting an internship at a BB IB in their front office are practically 0. Keep networking over LinkedIn to get into absolutely any IB role.
MS front office IB doesn't take interns from any Mumbai college, and they haven't made any exceptions to this rule.
Hey man! Congrats. I'm a junior (3rd yr) at an engineering college think (BITS/NSUT/NIT) and want to get into IB FO role straight out of my UG. Would love to chat with you and know about your hustle and experience. Can I dm you?
You're from nsut, aren't you?
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