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Career Resources
Thanks for doing this:
-Why did you pick M&A vs. coverage group? -What are your future plans - stay in IB, PE, Corp dev, etc. -What was your overall experience?
Are these the same answers you gave during the interview? 1. "no idea what industry I was interested in"
Is IB something you would do all over again given the chance, or would you opt for a different career, be it in finance or no.
Given the chance, I would do it again. Although no job is perfect, I cannot think of any other occupation which provides this much learning opportunity / responsibility / exit ops.
What about MBB consulting? Was it a path you ever considered? How do you feel IBD at BB stacks up against it?
At least for first ~6 months, come in early, work hard, don't try to talk your way out of trouble, "do just as what other analyst / associate tell you to do", and overall just have a positive attitude that you are willing to learn. Never have an attitude; just because you went to a target school, have aced your finance exams, or even a CPA degree, you know nothing compared to the second year analysts and associates.
Not as much office politics in our group. As far as I can tell, it's 90%+ merit based.
Going to a client meeting for management presentation / strategic review session and actually have a voice in the conversation.
Perfect. Thanks!
How was navigating the buy-side recruiting process? Did you find it difficult to balance working in a tough group (M&A) while also needing practice for PE/HF interviews. Also what made you choose PE over HF? Thanks!
I chose PE over HF because I didn't have that much interest in public side (stock markets, etc.).
Our group was very very understanding of the recruiting process and we didn't have to fake a doctor's appointment or anything like that. My experience in M&A, especially regarding the technical skill sets, really helped me navigate the recruiting process.
Thanks for that! As a follow up, I'll be doing M&A work this summer as well (though at an EB). Do you recommend doing anything before hand to best prepare myself for the heavy-technical nature of the work? I have access to to some BIWS courses and was thinking abotu doing them before the internship starts.
I saw you mentioned you plan to move to a MM PE fund, why have you decided to exit into PE and not continue as an IBD associate?
Thanks
Honestly speaking, I jumped on the bandwagon cuz everybody else was doing it too. But as I was preparing for recruiting, realized that being a principal investor would be pretty interesting.
do you recommend any specific books on valuation?
Have personally not seen anyone from other group who did the summer transfer to M&A. Almost everyone who got the offer accepted them.
As for the books, if you really want to study valuation, check out Rosenbaum valuation book, but to prepare for the summer / full-time, much rather read books "about" finance, one of those books about financial crisis/Barbarians at the Gate, etc.
were there ever any analysts who lateraled over into your group? If there were, do you remember most of them coming after they finished their summer internship at another firm and ended up starting full time training with you together, or did they already graduate and start working full time at another firm before coming over?
Don't have anyone who lateraled after the summer / came in from other banks
What do you think makes a good and also a bad post MBA associate who has finance experience, but no investment banking or deal experience?
The biggest differential is whether one "gets" it. Doesn't really matter if you have finance background or not, it's all about the attitude and effort once you join the firm
What non-target schools/ semi-target schools were most heavily represented?
U Mich/nyu/non-wharton Penn/uchicago/baruch . Only 1-2 per class
What was your recruiting history for PE? How come you didn't recruit first year to leave for PE after second year?
Wanted to receive my year end review before trying recruiting. Know this is not typical.
Did you feel like this hindered your recruiting at all? In other words, were funds put off by the fact that you weren't recruiting on the typical timeline with the rest of your class?
Do you have any suggestions on how to navigate the PE recruiting process from a MM IB M&A group (also non-target)? I'd be looking to move to MM / Upper MM PE.
Do you have any general thoughts about the PE process? The good? The bad? Ways to improve it?
Process is the same for MM M&A groups. You get contacted by headhunters, etc and they will refer you to the pe firms. Please note that moving from mm ibd to pe might much more difficult; even those in lower tier BB might find it difficult to get first round interviews. Process will be dominated by GS, MS, Evercore, JPM guys from what I saw.
You will have to network like crazy.
Yeah it is way more difficult to get from low-tier BB or decent MM IB (especially without a top educational background), into even mid-tier MM PE through headhunters, let alone MF or top MM's - you just won't get the interviews. Will need to 1) network a bit, 2) get in directly with clients you work with, and/or 3) lower your expectations on the size/reputation of fund you are willing to leave for / be more flexible around type of fund/location.
Hello Almost There Lol!
I was wondering:
1) What were the worst kinds of people to work with and why? Please include level! 2) What were the best kinds of people to work with and why? Please include level! 3) How do you feel this job has impacted your relationship with friends and family, and maybe dating/SO's? 4) Who's the person you looked up most to in your company? Did you find mentorship in your firm?
I'm currently in management consulting, thinking of going to Bschool or just networking hard for the next 6-months to move into banking! I think culture is really important to me and I don't want to believe everyone is as bad as they say!
Thank you! :)
I can give you answers to all of that, but don't think it will be extremely helpful for you. Every firm and every group has its unique culture so would be very hard to generalize.
Overall, from my discussion with friends in varying firms and groups, there are many bankers who are genuinely nice / caring. Of course there will always be a few that don't really give a shit about jr banker's life, but most of them will be fine.
Surprisingly, most of my class are handling their personal lives pretty well. Whether it's dating life or family matters, people do find time because hours are not as crazy as they make it to be. Of course, there are a few cases of collateral damage, but they don't happen substantially more than any other industries.
There will be ample chance to find unofficial mentorship. I found at least three true mentors in varying levels (MD, VP, Associate)
Thank you for replying! :)
Why MM PE? Did you recruit for MF PE? Did you consider corporate development at all?
What are some small tips and tricks you learned at the job? Things like printing out your work before turning it in, setting up checks in Excel, etc. Always interested to see what other former analysts learned.
Was interested in MM space (small knit / culture) more so than MF. I did not consider corp dev; didn't want to face salary drop, etc.
Everything you just said + sanity check (if the numbers look directionally correct / no sudden jump in acc / dil value creation, etc.)
What are you still doing there???
Making a living?
Thanks for doing this. Just curious, would you have considered staying on an associate?
I would have considered staying on. It was a difficult decision for me.
Just curious - why did you consider staying on versus going to PE?
Thanks for doing this! Just curious with how you would say brand name of bank impacts recruiting for PE/HF/VC. I'm joining a non-GS/MS/JPM BB as a SA, and was curious whether or not it'd be worth to try to lateral to a "top" BB/EB and how big of a difference it makes. Also, would you say geographic location is important (i.e. non-NYC office)?
In addition, how would you say being in a top BB/EB impacts MBA selection, and how does undergrad institution play into recruiting for PE/VC/HF? Thank you again for your insight!
As for location SF / Chicago / Houston (for energy PE), should be good enough, but still a little harder to get in to NYC PEs than NYC bankers.
If you are at Citi / BAML, and top groups, no incentive to move to GS MS JPM, but if you are at lower BB (UBS / DB) maybe.
Don't have much insight into MBA, have seen a couple guys go to Harvard / Wharton, but still unclear as to why you would get an MBA degree if you already started from Banking.
Undergrad degree matters, but only to a degree
Sophomore here. Did you do any interviewing during your time as an analyst? If so, which candidates stood out to you the most? I think it's easy for anyone to get access to BIWS, WSP, or whatever other resources to "get it." I mean, anyone can talk about a deal, especially if you've been following any sort of activity in the market, anybody can learn how to model, how to do a DCF, comps, merger model, etc. So what really makes a candidate stand out? I will be interviewing this summer/fall so thx in advance!
Also, are you considering going back for an MBA given it might be required? And a little off topic here, but how much were you/your peers able to save during your three years as an analyst?
Yes I did a couple of informational interviews / did resume screens.
Talking about kids who not just memorized BIWS, etc, but those who truly understand the concept, etc. Also, huge focus on personality (we don't want any cutthroats, overly eager guys), and whether they would be good fit to the culture of the group. Make sure to have clear reason as to why IB, why this firm, why this group.
My PE doesn't require MBA to be promoted so maybe not. If you want to stay on as IB associate, absolutely not worth it to get MBA.
Depends on your spending habit. Yes, you can save if you want
how's the market right now? are people looking for deals with excess cash or has it cooled off a bit?
you kinda hear the "too much money chasing too few deals" bit a lot and "money's really cheap" and "sales aren't growing, so you have to use share repos and M&A to grow" but I wonder from an insider how true those statements are.
also, talk about personal life a bit. how hard has it been to maintain social relationships, both friends and friends w/benefits. if you're at the firm I think you're at, the hours are some of the more ridiculous on the street.
Market is doing fine. Companies are indeed trying to pursue strategic ideas because organic growth is not catching up with investor's expectation. Tons of cheap money as well, so financing doesn't serve as a constraint in most deals. PE firms are definitely having a hard time against strategics, but that's no news.
Personal life is fine. People obviously expect a lot from you, especially when you are a first year, but they are very understanding. Where do you think I work at lol. Don't think I gave away any details.
Thank you for all of your insight! I'm a recent graduate from a non-target school, Finance GPA 3.9+/4.0 but cumulative of 3.3 from switching majors late. My long term goal is to get into alternative investments (PE, VC). The closests I've gotten to a path that'll get me there was a super day interview for GS IB ATP in Salt Lake City.
My questions are: 1. Was there anyone that reached out to you for an informational interview that afterwards you really wanted to help and give an internal referral for? If so, what about that conversation or that person stood out to you?
Since you went through the PE recruitment process and have friends at other BB firms that did similar moves, how much of a difference do you think there is between doing M&A vs TMT IB as a learning experience and PE exit opportunities?
I'll probably have to go for an MBA at the highest ranked B school I can get in after a few years of finance experience to get into IB and eventually to alternative investing. For those that you have seen come in as post MBA IB associates, how long do you think I should do IB to get the full experience before PE recruitment vs analysts that went the traditional route like you did?
No. With whatever limited power / political capital I have, I would help my friend, not a student who I talked to once or twice. You should probably expect the same thing with others. Unless you really stand out (I can't imagine anyone who would really amaze me), I wouldn't expect informational interviews to lead to interview, etc. It might help you get a better understanding of the firm culture / getting insights, but will not help you get interviews imo.
M&A has much better chance unless you are at GS, where they don't have M&A and TMT are top notch.
Don't really understand what you are trying to do here. Doing MBA means you will get in as an associate. It's really hard for IBD associate to move to PE / HF / VC. Really hard...
Quick question in response to your Third Point: when you say that it is really hard for post-MBA IBD associates+ to make the move into PE/HF/VC, more specifically PE, are you talking about MF PE/reknown MM shops or PE in general, including regional boutique PE shops?
Could you also talk a little about what makes it so difficult for post-MBA IBD associates or even IBD associates in general to make the move over to PE vs. analysts?
Thanks for the thread. Insightful stuff.
1 is a little confusing to be completely honest. How else can a non-target kid who is asian or white get an interview? Obviously you're probably not going to get an interview by 95-99+% of networking emails, calls, etc. but it makes little to no sense to not try?
Going to take a wild guess that you're at Morgan Stanley.
Any advice on PE recruiting for incoming analysts? It comes up pretty fast and wanted to get your take on it.
Prepare your story / brush up on technicals, especially on valuation and lbos. Get PE guides
Thanks for doing this and congrats on the new job. What PE guide(s) do you recommend/have you or your colleagues used that you thought were the most helpful?
Thanks for doing the AMA. Three questions here: (1) Any tip to stay healthy / physically fit despite the long hours? (2) Are there any distress-focused PE firms? What's it like working in this type of funds? (3) How was time split between pitching and executing during your analyst years?
Thanks for doing this AMA, very helpful.
I am doing energy o&g banking in Houston right now (3rd yr analyst) and want to move up to NY. Have you ever seen analysts move from other regions up to NY to do associate banking at BB/EB? My skill set is all exploration and production o&g banking and do not care to do PE.
Only reason I ask is because I have met several associate energy bankers that moved to Houston from NY BBs (covering different industries). Wondering if the reverse happens?
Every major BB either has Natural Resources group or E&P group in New York. I would ask your staffer / HR to see if any relocation opportunities are out there.
I personally don't have much interaction with energy bankers
Thank you for the AMA! I have a few questions: (1). During PE recruitment, are analysts in coverage groups (same banks as listed) at a disadvantage when compared to M&A analysts?In terms of getting headhunter calls, interviews, and to a lesser extent, to acing the questions.
(2). From your knowledge and experience, how easy or hard would it be for someone from a more "specialized" coverage group like Energy/FIG to get into generalist PE? First the hurdle of convincing a headhunter to help, then to get the interviews for generalist and non-industry specific roles. It would be great if you can speak from the MF and MM perspectives.
(3). Are there a lot of differences in terms of the work / location / advancement ops between MF and MM funds?
(4). How easy/hard can an analyst place into a MM fund (or really any fund with a good track record) in a non-finance hub (like Orlando, Seattle, Denver, etc.) if you've seen or heard any stories on this. I don't know whether those funds outside of NYC/SF would pay street level, but it can't hurt to live in a lower cost city I figure.
Are there any BBs where you think M&A is a relatively weaker group compared to some industries? Or is it pretty much always number 1 or 2?
MS tech in menlo park might be just as good as MS M&A, and GS and Barclays don't have M&A group. Other than that, safe to assume top group
My apologies if I asked too many questions, just interested in your perspective. Thanks
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Do you think your group will be doing FT recruiting?
How often do you get students trying to network with you?
Would you ignore someone trying to network if they didn't share something in common with you? (school, hometown, sport)
What is your why ib, why this group answer?
We don't do full time recruiting. I get 1-2 a month. I would get on the phone with them but won't go out of my way to help them out if they're not my friend/someone introduced by my friends. Why IB, something along the line of intellectual challenge (tied to my previous experience)/M&A because I have done previous internship in M&A reallyliked it
Worst day or week working in IBD?
Just the hours: 140 was my max (happened only twice)
Hi - 1st yr finance undergrad at UK target here
anything you wish you did at uni before starting eg taking courses, learning skills languages etc
how did you go about making yourself more relevant / special than other 4.0 GPA target school kids?
I don't think learning languages (R, Java) will help at all. Other than the gpa, I was the president of school's debate team, did internship in banking and pe.
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