Another big 4 question. Help!
Although I don't have to worry about a summer internship for a while (about this point next year) I'm starting to really consider what I want to do with my life. As of right now I am a finance and accounting major at a decent university and I have ok grades. Now my grades definitely arnt something that would land me a big time internship in either accounting but everyone says it's not what you know, but who you know, and i have connections available to land me an internship pretty easily at a big 4.
- My question to you guys is, should I attempt to start my career at a big 4 then try and get out into a more finance oriented job? I'm thinking that a big 4 will help me start rather then attempting to get into finance with not so competitive grades.
My grades at school were strong, i derailed at university. I went into a big 4 (dad is also a partner at a different big 4, so i was basically trained to pass the interview). Hated it passionately (i didnt fit in at all, its far too conversative and bureaucratic to me), and became an algo trader at a prop firm instead. HOWEVER, the qualification is well respected and you get a huge amount of experience in seeing businesses being run. If you can stomach dull people for 3 years and no performance related bonus, and hours of buttkissing and backstabbing then be my guest. I couldn't.
I will emphasise though that these places have a lot of applicants so they are popular, but it just wasn't at all for me.
I would say take only as a last resort.
I was basically in your position...good school, ok grades, lack of extra currics..I basically felt I was'nt strong enough to apply for finance roles so reasoned with myself to go Big 4 as its a good start to a career and I can move to finance later.
I am now two years into contract and I absolutely despise it...it really is soul destroying depresssing stuff...currently trying to get out but it is not easy.
Its a good qualification to have but its a big slog to get from Big 4 to anything decent.
My major regret is not having a bit more self belief and going after things more agressively in college...it was like "fvck it, im not good enough so why bother"...Even if I had failed I would've felt better to have tried.
So my advice:
+1. see if you like the work 2. see if you like the culture at A) big 4 B) bank. then cost/benefit it to your own opinion
1) i know for fact one of the top scorers 1 year below me in college got an FT offer from GS IBD after an internship and turned it down for a big4 job (not sure which service). so i think you need to touch the water / study it and do the cost benefit thing
2) another friend went to Caliburn for a significant time (bought by Greenhill, in Australia, massive dealflow, league table, small shop, M&A, very reputable bankers) said it was absolute shithouse (won't disclose why) and now works in a big4 job, and loves it a lot. said it wasn't for him at all when i asked
good luck
[quote=GotBushels2) another friend went to Caliburn for a significant time (bought by Greenhill, in Australia, massive dealflow, league table, small shop, M&A, very reputable bankers) said it was absolute shithouse (won't disclose why) and now works in a big4 job, and loves it a lot. said it wasn't for him at all when i asked[/quote] I agree with the advice you gave here, but I will point out that in my experience the Big 4 have a reputation for being much more pleasant in the UK/EU versus the US as far as hours and relative pay go, and I've heard from one person that Australia is similar.
Get into Valuation at the Big 4. It is pure finance, and pretty close to what you would do in banking.
pick your big4 though, some have no dealflow at all and barely any clients based on which city. they spend the entire year pitching and have the segment because that's the big4 global model. despite the fact they can't compete. it's a vestigial cost centre in these places and i heard it hasn't got great potential other than being a launchpad.
so pick wisely amongst them if you do decide to go big4
The value of becoming a CPA and auditing experience has been debated before, I personally think the value of auditing is minimal and that while CPAs learn accounting rules very thoroughly, an audit associate does a lot of tick and tying and checking of individual records and line items, and very little actual analysis of a company and no valuation.
I've also seen a lot of CPAs go to get their MBAs only to end up right back at the Big 4 after-the transition is tough to make with no finance experience.
I will second the valuation recommendations above-my hire class in a Big 4 valuation group's NY office has done very well.
Well, do you think doing work as a vaulation consultant at a no-name firm is better than doing audit at Big 4?
Even coming from valuation (which is about as close to a banking role/skill-set as you’ll get in the Big 4) it’s hard to shake the stereotype of being an accountant/controller-type person to be considered for front-office roles. I guess in part it would depend how “no-name” you’re talking. After the Big 4, there’re maybe a handful of additional accounting firms that have some name recognition (Grant Thornton, McGladrey, etc) and Duff and Phelps, but any smaller than that and I’m not sure the lack of recognition is worth the skill-set.
There’s also the downside to consider-lots of people who work in valuation don’t make it to front-office gigs, and down the road it’s not a bad thing to have a Big 4 name if you want to do something unrelated to finance or if you want to become a controller/CFO etc.
Thank you guys, this advice is the best I have ever gotten on the subject. Seeing as it is still early (second semester sophmore year) if I can get my grades up a lot I think a lot more options would be available to me. As of right now I am simply relying on a Big 4 when in reality I should be pushing myself to get the grades so that my connections will lead me to a finance oriented position. Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it!
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