Married Before or During First Year of Analyst Stint

Hello,

I'm in a predicament. I need to decide whether to propose and marry the girl that I love before starting my first year as a full time IB Bulge Bracket analyst or to do it during the first year or after the first year. I want some straight forward advice on this, because I want to be able to make the best decision possible. I fully understand how difficult the first few years on the job are and how crazy this sounds.

Some info: I have drilled into her the facts about the job (80-110 hours a week, stress, etc) to the point that she has said that it feels like I'm trying to push her away, however, she said she's with me and will be there to support me. In addition, proposing, and her acceptance, would mean that she would be moving out of the state where she grew up and where her family currently resides, and she has communicated that this would be very tough for her, especially if it feels like it is marriage in name only for the first year. However, she still wants to do it to start a new life with me.

Your advice is greatly appreciated; please shoot straight, given your own experience, what you've seen others do, what you think is common sense, etc.

 
geniustai:
prenup prenup prenup, that is all

A prenup only protects assets that you bring into a marriage. Any assets that are accumulated post-marriage will be considered joint marital assets (even if they are mostly accumulated based on the effort of the husband) and your spouse will be eligible to get her share of those assets.

So, unless OP is coming into the marriage with substantial assets (unlikely since he is a senior in college), I don't think he has much to worry.

What screws up most men in divorce is not so much the division of joint marital assets (although still painful) but alimony. So the thing I would focus on is making sure that your future wife-to-be is a ambitious hard-working professional with high earning potential (e.g. doctor, lawyer, etc.) who wants to work throughout the marriage (e.g. no stay-at-home moms).

 

Missing some critical information friend.

-how long have you been seeing each other -have you ever lived together -what are your family / cultural / socioeconomic backgrounds and do they overlap -what are her career / life ambitions; is she career driven and independent or will she require more hand holding and consistent close attention -do her career / family goals align with yours -are you both aligned on finances and how to spend / save -what is yours / her dating experience; have each only been with very few people

Unless you check all the following boxes: have lived together for a meaningful period of time, encountered life challenges that you have overcome together, aligned in career / life / financial goals and time frame for those, similar cultural and socioeconomic backgrounds -

unless you have ALL of those boxes checked at the very minimum, getting married at this point in your life could be a life-alteringly devastatingly poor decision.

 

Thanks for your reply.

-We've been seeing each other for 3 months.
-We have not lived together, but she sleeps over the majority of the week so it feels like it.
-We are of the same religious background and believe the same things. She grew up in wealth, but I grew up in the middle class.
-she is career driven, but not as independent as she could be. She would want attention, which I believe is very normal.
-Our career and family goals do align.
-We both believe in saving much more than spending and being frugal.
Thanks very much for taking the time to respond.

 

Woah, you should consider pumping the brakes on this one. Three months is nowhere near enough time to be making this decision. Obviously there's no set in stone amount of time before you can propose, but personally I wouldn't even consider it for at least 1.5-2 years. You're still in the infatuation phase of your relationship- you may feel completely different 6 months from now when that wears off. You don't want to have a sudden realization that you're love was driven off of infatuation rather than an in-depth understanding of one another. If that is the case, already being married presents a whole host of issues that could really screw up your life

 

Jesus Christ. 3 Months.......

No no no no no no no no no no.

I was with a girl, got engaged in 6 months, and jumped out the window at a year. I worked 60 hours a week in sales, and all i ever heard was that I dont spend time with her, i dont do the the things she wants to do, etc because I just like to relax after trying to convince people to do what they do not want to do..and she wanted to do other stuff.

And that is with 60 hours. You will be working potentially double what I did. DO NOT get married. DO NOT propose. MAYBE live together, but then again she is going to be living alone because you will never be there physically (or mentally).

At 3 months, you should be trying to stick it in her bum bum, not letting her stick all of the risk that comes with divorce/kids in yours.

Jesus, your smart enough to get into IBD but not smart enough to make a logical decision...

 

I think for the majority of situations it does not make sense to get married before you start working. The lifestyle of a college undergrad is very different from IB analyst (especially if you are moving from a rural area to a city).

Why do you feel you need to get married in the next 1-2 years? Do you plan on having kids ASAP? I would wait for 2-3 years at minimum.

Also - agree that you should answer a lot of the questions above but still think waiting is better even if you make it through that checklist.

 

The best advice I have ever been given when it comes to marriage is to never put a time frame around marrying who you love. Stop thinking in terms of, "We have to get married now, before life gets hard," or "If we don't get married this year we probably won't last." Marriage will come when you both want it enough and are committed to each other enough that your circumstances will not effect the outcome. Recognize that marriage is a choice and that if both parties choose to love and support each other it is an incredible blessing. Having a teammate to help you go through the stress of banking life could be a huge benefit, but don't think in those terms. Instead figure out what you can contribute to her, and if you can feel good about your ability to make her happy even when life is crazy I would say go for it.

Good luck

 

Decide after the two-year stint. The two years will act as a test of her love for you.

If she truly wants to be with you, she would be willing to put up with your career obligations.

I know you said that you've "drilled" it into her head that the job will take up a lot of your time and be stressful, but theory is many times very different from application.

 

^ Pretty much all of this.

OP - People can change after they graduate. What they want (career vs family vs lifestyle) can also change, and both your views may diverge. Were you thinking you’d just lock it down in case she becomes unhappy with you working long hours later? That’s just a recipe for disaster going in. She could become unhappy because you’re not devoting time to making it work or want you to switch jobs to more reasonable hours. And you might come to resent her for not understanding your aspirations and investing in yourself now.

See what happens after two years. Maybe you decide you still want to do banking, PE or something like consulting (lots of travel), and maybe that’s another two years... will she be ok with it then?

 

wait until you are 25 (at a minimum) to get married. You can still live together...in fact, you should. This is the only way to know if your are truly compatible. Will your (and her) idiosyncratic behaviors drive you crazy and make you want to kill her? Only living together, for 1-2 YEARS will teach you that.

just google it...you're welcome
 
Controversial

Your girl is going to cheat on you, regardless. Working 90 hours a week is going to make her feel like she's in a long-distance relationship and she'll miss intimacy. When you do make time for her it will begin to feel forced and she'll be able to tell that she's no longer a priority in your mind. You'll stop developing new inside jokes and slowly drift apart to the point where you go out to dinner and there's just nothing to say.

Her, being a pretty girl in a big city, will get tons of attention from other, more available sources. Other men will grow on her, well you remain distant, and ultimately attraction will form as surely as mold grows on bread that's left in the cupboard too long. She'll cheat on you because she doesn't know how else to break it off and you'll take a fat L. Guarantee it.

 

Dude if it helps I made a formula for the net present value of getting married assuming you live in California with a 70% divorce rate.

The one assumption is the reduced value of capital in the future is reduced by your addition to net worth during the marriage. I can do this but it would take way too long and I'd need excel. So for now it is just an estimation, but is is probably higher than what you get here with earnings during the marriage.

Here it is: NW == Current Net Worth Avg Salary == Average Salary that alimony is taken out of.

(-0.7 x 0.5 x NW) - (AvgSalary x 5 x 0.3 x 0.7)

So if you're worth 500k and make 150k a year.

-0.7 x 0.5 x 500000-150000 x 5 x 0.3 x 0.7

=== -332k

 

1) You seem like a troll 2) If you're not, you want to don't be that 22-year-old that's already married and balking at your limited opportunities to socialize, in order to be with your wife. People also tend to make less-than-generous assumptions about guys your age that are married, especially if you're white (i.e. some weird Christian dude from the South).

Gimme the loot
 

" She would want attention, which I believe is very normal." Here's the deal breaker - This might be normal from your point of view, but there are different levels of independence, and you can't manage a career and babysit someone who's probably had her life totally structured up to this point. Adult life is very different from student life, and your life will continued to be very structured. If she has no ambitions of her own, she's likely to be bored, which is going to end poorly for you and well for her personal trainer.

 

disclaimer: never been in ib (corp fin), but married with kids and a little older so hopefully I can provide some perspective.

My original suggestion was going to be to propose before ib but make it clear that the wedding would be after your analyst stint. Explain to her that you're making a complete commitment to her, but the wedding will have to wait. Tell her that you really want to enjoy marriage with her and the limitations of your analyst role won't allow that. You're going to spend the rest of your life together and as important as the wedding is, it's worth waiting a little bit longer and doing everything right.

Then I read the details of your situation. FULL STOP.

Many of us have been there (myself included) and I'm sure you 100% feel what you're saying, but everyone is telling you not to do it for a reason. You guys are very young and still in the lust stage, which is great, but you are not ready for marriage. You're both going to change a lot over the next few years and if you do it together your relationship could develop into something really special, but there is the very real possibility that it doesnt. That doesn't mean to give up on the relationship now, but certainly don't over commit.

You need to have an honest conversation with her: You're not warning her how bad the analyst stint is to drive her away, you're warning her because you care. You are invested in making this work and the next 2 years are going to be hard. You want her to know that so she's prepared and you guys can work through that. Be honest and supportive and then as much as it sucks, she's going to have to be mature enough to accept that. I would not go any further than saying that this will be a huge challenge, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy
 

Regardless of whether it has been 3 months or 3 years, it would be much better to wait until you're a year or more in. It's easy to say "yeah I'm cool with the hours" but you never know until you actually have to live that life. Until you actually have your anniversary plans, which you guys have both been looking forward to for months because you're both exhausted, get blown up as you get staffed up on a deal, you don't know if that's the life you want.

 

Yes, publicly they can't discriminate. But behind closed doors, will marital status affect their perception towards a female analyst?

How many % of analysts are married?

 

If you are filling out HR forms and relocating, then you are already hired.

Do they HIRE marrried analysts? Yes.

What is the PRECEPTION? Depends on firm/group culture.

Relocation costs are paid out generally in a set amount-refer to your contract- doesn't matter if you are single or family of four. Additional relocation expenses can be deducted from taxes. See your accountant.

Advice: It would not be wise to use your spouse/family as a reason that you can not work late or complete assignments, travel, etc. as an analyst--

As far as % of married analysts-- I don't know in my firm, nor do I care- as long as the work gets done.

 

I think I am just worrying about nothing. I had no intention to mention my status. I just want to be given a fair chance to prove myself. But I had to fill the HR forms, So I started to worry whether they will see me differently. =P

 

HR doesn't talk much to the groups, so just don't mention the marriage except on HR forms until you're all settled in. If someone asks you, though, tell them the truth. I didn't discuss my engagement for the first month or so, and it was fine. Just don't talk about it much, don't let it affect your work, and they won't care.

 

In my opinion married analysts have more obligations than unmarried analysts, meaning that's a negative. This is esp. true for analysts who might work 100+ hrs on a weekly basis. But I agree with previous posts, that companies aren't allowed to ask personal questions so just avoid touching the subject until you're hired.

 
Dream_lover:
Hi..just wondering whether marital status affect one's candidacy, especially for female. Does this matter to BBs?

How many % of analyst are married?

If you're 21 and ALREADY married, I think the subject of this thread is going to be the least of your problems throughout life. Ridiculous.

 

agreed its messed up "ooh you popped my cherry, lets be together forever", no wonder divorce is so high in this country, too many people confuse lust for love


Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

 

aspiringmonkey:
agreed its messed up "ooh you popped my cherry, lets be together forever", no wonder divorce is so high in this country, too many people confuse lust for love


Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

You nailed it on the head. Too many people are going around fucking like...well, monkeys (both the business and non-business variety). Where did the problem start? I don't know. How does one fix it? I don't know; I do know that people seem to be infinitely more irresponsible today than they were historically. Whether that's a function of societal "openness" or what, I don't know.

Damn, I don't know much at all...

 

It is a function of having many means of protection. And if two people are getting married, that means that the last thing they want to do is fuck like monkeys. They want to be dedicated to each other. And since I am from another country, I will tell you a little secret as to why the divorce rate here is so high. I guarantee you that the percentage of unhappy couples is identical in EVERY SINGLE country in the world. The reason the divorce rate is high in America is because in America, divorce is not as scary as it could be elsewhere, you are not stigmatized, and there are many opportunities for a successful life after a divorce. There, now you know more

 

I've been hired in IBD, but my status were never asked during the process. My husband and I know what's involved in this line and we are committed to our careers. He is not in IB though, but travels often. As long as it does not give me a disadvantage, I am fine. I just don't want to be discriminated because I am married. I am willing to put in long hours and work hard just like every other analyst.

 

who even had a kid. It was pretty inconvenient as his wife would call because she was having problems with the baby. Not ideal but if you work with decent ppl, they will understand. If not, then obviously the environment is not right for you.

 

seems to me that if you plan to go into banking, you have to be married to the job. The only way a marriage will work, if the other person is fine with a marriage w/o any substance


Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...

 
aspiringmonkey:
seems to me that if you plan to go into banking, you have to be married to the job. The only way a marriage will work, if the other person is fine with a marriage w/o any substance

Untrue. You just need an understanding person as a spouse. At my bank, many of the associates were married, as were the VPs and MDs. They would take a few minutes during the day to talk to them, and try to get home whenever possible. As long as the banker isn't willingly avoiding going home, the other person understands the dedication to the job. My parents are both in careers that require a lot of dedication to the job, but they still have a great marriage. Not "lacking substance" as you put it.

I've seen a few analysts are of the mindset "I don't ever need to marry and have a family, I'll just have a girlfriend for the rest of my life and make lots of money". As one matures, and progresses in life, their needs change.

 

If you're 21 or 22, you might want to not wear the wedding ring at least for the first 6 months or so, so that you get an opportunity to prove yourself without any stigma. In my opinion, it's unusual to be married/engaged at age 21/22, and you don't want to draw any unnecessary attention to yourself or cast doubts on your abilities right when you get there. Once you prove yourself, I doubt it will matter. As long as you're willing to work hard, I don't think anyone will care if you're married. But since it's so unusual to be married/engaged at age 21/22 and there is definitely the potential for people to doubt your abilities before seeing your work due to your marital status, I would not wear the ring until you've proven yourself. Just my opinion.

 

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