Any of you guys truly an undecided voter for 2020?
I see lots of discussion in political forums and news networks around the "undecided voters", but as polarized as I feel that this country has become, I am curious as to know if there are truly any undecided voters or if "undecided" just means they are are counter to their respective cultures/families and would rather stay quiet until its gameday to avoid social fallout.
It just seems so hard to believe that there are people who could be truly swayed in either direction out there. If any of you exist, what specifically would either candidate have to do (or not do) to finally push your needle? Really hoping this doesn't devolve into an insult fest as I have sincere admiration for anyone who is genuinely open minded enough to still be considering either option. Those of you who have convictions in your hopeful candidate, please try and keep it respectful or better yet just observe the discussion.
I would like to see a more defined answer from Biden/Harris on their plans/views for the Supreme Court.
Biden just said in the Town Hall that he'll have an answer after the Amy Barrett hearing and before the election.
Yes I was watching, but his answer seemed to imply it would somehow depend on the Barrett confirmation hearings. I do not understand that answer and do not understand why there is a reason to wait for the current hearings to announce his plan. The Barrett confirmation is obviously rushed, so the "way" it is being done is established. Whether or not she actually gets confirmed seems irrelevant to the greater philosophical idea of willingness to pack the court.
Seems like he may be holding out to the last minute to see if they find something on her so he hopes to say that his intention was to never pack the court. If she does get confirmed, then is the answer court packing? If she gets confirmed and he tries to say that he still won't pack the court, can anyone truly believe that? I do not like the way the Barrett procedure happened either, but it is acceptable per the fundamentals of our current system of government.
I do not like the idea that those foundational procedures are subject to change based on the whims and wishes of the winning party. In fact, Democrats changing the supreme court nomination vote from 2/3 vote to a simple majority is the fundamental rule change that has opened them up to this current political pickle of the Barrett nomination in the first place. They can complain about the "right" thing to do vs. what the Republicans have a constitutional right to do all they want, but the rules are the rules. If they go on to then pack the court, then you have the exact same issue of what is in their constitutional right vs. what should be done. It just seems very messy and inconsistent. That Biden is not willing to make a stand on it seems so sus.
I try to be open minded, view other sources, but I haven't seen any compelling reason to change my decision. I hate extremists on both sides. I think ACAB is as stupid as QAnon. I think both have the potential devolve this country into someplace I'd move out of. I think it's possible be can see the fate of the USSR in a way, with the metro areas being mostly okay (USSR Moscow wasn't anything to write home about, but bear with the analogy) where the Balkans or Chechnya were dangerous areas. I think major metros would burn, then be relatively okay, but we would see some segments be truly third world country like.
I don't think any of this is likely by any means, but a probability above 0 is something to be considered.
Anyone saying they are undecided to you are just uncomfortable telling you they are voting for Trump.
If you live in a liberal area maybe.
Different when you're living in swing states.
This is also my impression and why I am hoping to hear from true undecideds (if they exist) about what specifically could change for them.
I would also like to see Trump offer something concrete in regards to healthcare policy. That could sway me. If he can't come up with something then I would put more faith in Biden and a Democratic congress to make some progress than faith in Trump's unsubstantiated promise that he has "something way better" to offer with no specifics.
Tbh, Trump has offered absolutely no details on what he'd actually do during the 2nd term. And he didn't on the Town Hall.
Getting really suspicious whether the campaign even has a plan.
People might not agree with them all, but Biden campaign is offering ridiculous amount of detail.
Yes I agree with you there -- this is the guy who is also concerned about court packing. Biden/Democrats scare me with their continued expansion of powers, but I can't commit to Trump based on a bunch of bravado and vague promises about "the best is yet to come". It seems irresponsible that he would not have something to point to in lieu of ACA, so I just feel like he doesn't have anything at all and wants to wing it when he gets there. Not good.
Ridiculous lightweight around details is just called being a politician.
I don’t get it.
So one party has a clear plan for healthcare and the other doesn’t. Yet you’re still on the fence on that issue?
What are you weighing against Biden’s plan that makes you stay on the fence? Because Trump doesn’t even have the appearance of a plan. Literally nothing.
Let’s call it like it is, right?
You are the second person to incorrectly flip the topic to "yeah but Trump does xyz" rather than address a fair criticism I have of Biden.
I responded to this thread because I consider myself undecided. I am undecided because there are certainly things about Trump that i do not like, and in another comment i critiqued that he doesn't have any concrete plans. That said, he did in fact accomplish some things over the last four years and my bank account did admittedly grow nicely with his tax cuts and him cattle-prodding jpoww up the yin yang. I do not like that he isn't saying anything specific at all around healthcare, police, or immigration reform. I do think he made mistakes that led to more american COVID deaths than if he had made a different choice.
On the other side, Biden is not providing anything specific on the Courts, which is a huge fundamental issue that would likely change the foundation of our civic structure forever. Biden claims that taxes won't go up for those making less than $400k but also wants massive spending efforts on continued healthcare, infrastructure, social security, unemployment, and environmental reform. I personally do think we should be spending money on healthcare and the environment, but it''s hard to believe that they are not lying when they say taxes will only go up for the wealthy. On Covid, Biden and other Democrats also critiqued Trump when he had to make the tough decision to institute the China travel ban as well as Trump's pushback to reopen the economy. WHO just came out to say that longterm lockdowns do more net harm than good, which is an idea Trump had been claiming since like mid-Spring.
I am undecided for a reason. I want to see a better answer from Biden on courtpacking to convince me to go for him, and I want to see more detail on what exactly trump wants to do in his second term to convince me to go for him. Until I see one of these things happen, I will likely remain undecided until Nov 3 where I will have to make a choice with the info available at that time.
I understand that each person has their own take on things. And i can respect that someone is undecided.
But it is hard to understand how someone can be undecided on the basis that they’d like to see more clarification from Biden on X topic.
I mean the current president has plans for nothing. He just has phrases that he repeats over and over again that never materialize.
Plan for healthcare? No plan. Just take down Obamacare.
Plan to deal with covid? No plan. Blame China. Plan to drain the swamp? No plan. But repeat that he drained the swamp. Plan to deal with the mess we find ourselves in? No plan. Just repeat that we just had record employment numbers whilst completely disregarding the record unemployment numbers that preceded it.
I’m not saying Biden’s plans are good or bad. But i feel like anyone undecided on the basis of Biden not providing enough specificity on X topic just lacks credibility.
"lacks credibility"
What kind of credibility is required to anonymously express my personal opinions in what i believe is a respectful way? My issue with Biden on courtpacking is not singular to courtpacking, if you bothered to actually read my comments rather than attack "credibility" that i didnt realize i even claimed. Biden's hesitance on courtpacking signals a willingness to courtpack, which signals a willingness to fundamental change some very important foundations of our current system of checks and balances. Congress will almost certainly go blue in both chambers. If the president is also blue, I fear that there will be no checks or balance to keep the party in power from adjusting the rules or "rethinking" the judiciary or whatever. I would not want any one particular party to be able to steamroll whatever they think is best. I have problems with Trump too, which is why I am undecided.
Please tell me, what are your credentials that permit you to speak on the topic, and how can I also obtain them?
I meant the “undecided” stance lacks credibility. Because it is obviously skewed towards Trump. Heavily.
Not that its bad or not. I dislike both candidates. But let’s be real.
What about blocking a supreme court nominee on the argument that its an election year but ramming through this judge with days until the election?
That’s not changing the rules, as court packing is. But the consequences of this dirty style of politics are the same. They’re packing the courts as well.
Or Mitch McConnell not allowing the senate to vote on any of the judges Obama put forth to fill federal vacancies? Is that not court packing?
Not sure how you can criticize Biden for not giving a clear answer but not the republicans who are actually acting on it.
Edit: Again, didn’t mean that YOU as a person lack credibility. I meant the “undecided” stance you took lacks credibility.
This thread may help you become a 'decided' voter the way it is going
I can believe that there are people who are still undecided. Two groups I can think of:
Catholics:
Biden has used his Catholic faith and mentioned his faith repeatedly during his campaign. In recent years, he has walked back on his stance regarding abortion to gain support in the Democrat party. For a while, this didn't really matter but now that Trump has nominated ABC a staunch Catholic who is socially conservative, this brings Biden's own stances into question and I can imagine this throws things up in the air for some Catholic voters.
African Americans:
Biden and Kamala's track record simply isn't there for African Americans. Kamala may claim she's black, but in reality she's half Indian and half Jamaican and grew up in a highly educated home ("privileged" as some would call it). Not exactly the candidate to relate to those who are facing poverty. Not to mention her record as AG and locking up innocent people (she opposed the use of DNA testing) is not resonating well. Biden's votes on previous crime bills are not good either. This is apart from his racist comments such as "You ain't black". But obviously going Republican isn't an easy choice. Many of these voters have bee Dem down ballot their whole life. The Democrats have touted themselves as the party with "equality" for all.
I only brought up Dem - > Lean Republican because right now the polls are predicting a "blue wave" and I'm just saying the race might be tighter than it looks. That said there are definitely Republicans on the edge going towards Biden. Trump and the GOP's disdain for taking any protective health measures is a national embarrassment and might be enough to push voters to Biden, so long as Biden proves he's a moderate who won't be swayed by the radical left (which depending on who you ask, he's done). Of course we then have the possibility of the 25th amendment being invoked and Harris taking the presidency, which again throws things up in the air.
Edit: Meant to reply to OP
Yeah, black people love Trump. His track record includes putting out a full page ad looking for the death penalty for 5 wrongly accused black teens. He also systematically discriminated against black people in the housing market. He is on record saying that he does not want a black guy managing his finances. On a more modern note, NFL and NBA players love the guy, especially when he criticizes them for kneeling during the national anthem
I'm voting for trump unless someone gives me $100.
I am genuinely undecided. I think both sides have ups and downs right now, but both seem to lack sufficient policy standpoints.
At this point, it's coming down to "better the devil you know," but we'll see if there are any major changes in the coming weeks.
Mind if you share what specifically either candidate could do to change your mind? Curious to know what others are considering as catalysts in the home stretch
I would personally like to hear more about approaches to foreign policy. Both opponents claim to be hard on China, but have failed to address how they will actually deal with the issue. Trump continues to cite the Trade War which imo has had mixed success, so curious if he has more up his sleeve. The TikTok ordeal was a total fail from my view as it didn't accomplish at all what Trump set out to do. Despite the criticisms of these, I think his Middle East policy is decent and has more potential than Biden's plan of doing what America has always done in the Middle East.
I guess you could put my wife in that category. She voted for Trump in 2016, but doesn't like his demeanor, the stuff he says, so said she's voting Biden. She doesn't pay much attention to politics.
Then I told her how much our taxes would go up under Biden's tax plan, she's now voting for Trump again.
I believe this. I do think there are quite a few people that just don't care enough to be so invested in politics that they make it part of their ego/identity. In the case of your wife, sounds like the immediate financial impact that the next president has on the wallet is understandably the easiest thing to use to make the decision.
I don't understand how much people discount the tax implications. When I say "I'll vote for whoever I will pay the least taxes under" a shitstorm happens. As far as impact on your personal life, I would have to say taxes are at least top three if not one. Not to mention this capital gains tax discussion.
Twitter and Facebook suppressing Biden-related scandals are everything you need to know of how bad it will be if liberals take over. Worse than China. Somewhere along the lines of North Korea.
Are you from an Eastern bloc country?
No
Was undecided between voting Libertarian or Trump up until this last week. Just went this morning and cast my ballot for Trump.
Final things that pushed me over to Trump (who I'm not a huge fan of and didn't vote for in 2016....hence I needed some pushing)
1. ACB nomination was awesome. I listened to a lot of the hearings and was super impressed with her, probably one of the best nominees in decades with an outstanding moral character.
2. Kamala Harris - Was not a huge fan of her to begin with. Liked her even less in the debate and the ACB confirmation. She just seems like a mean-spirited person. With Trump getting coronavirus and 2 people on Kamala's plane getting coronavirus, I really have to ask myself what are the chances that Joe Biden won't get covid within his first year of the presidency. There are just too many people around a president, and I don't know if Joe Biden would survive covid.
If Joe Biden is president for 4 years, sure whatever...not a huge deal. Kamala just gives me a bad vibe. You know people always say that the beer test is important. "Would you like to have a beer with this candidate?" Kamala...hell no! I'd be overjoyed to slam shots and pound beers with Hillary Clinton in comparison to her.
Note, I'm not trying to stir the pot. Just trying to share as a previously undecided voter what my thought process was - take it or leave it. I think there are plenty of people out there like me who are undecided between Trump or no one at all.
Your standards must be very low, as she an intellectual downgrade who is part of a group who believes that women should be subservient to their husbands. Today, she said that sexual orientation is a preference. She is not the most enlightened bulb in the pack.
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