Apollo FIG PE
Anybody here familiar with Apollo's FIG PE group? Current MBA at a top program looking at summer seats. The FIG team is described like it invests across flagship PE, hybrid value, yield origination platforms, and insurance, plus internal M&A. Crazy breadth of assets, I know (that's a plus in my book). I'm hoping someone can help me pin down how you're spending your time on that team. Bonus points for any additional details on team structure, internal career trajectory, culture, etc.
Thank you!
Not at Apollo nor based in the US but I got to work with them and here is my take:
We were on a unique situation (consortium, defense against strategic, activism, carve out type of thing) in the FIG space, we were looking for pockets of capital, and Apollo was the #2 on the list of people to approach after Blackstone (Bx was n1 just because of the bad rep Apollo has and banks/people would rather bring in Bx). But once we reached out they were really keen on the opportunity, had great ways to structure this and most importantly because of all of these pools of capital are able to basiacally find a way to invest no matter what the return profile & place in the capstack & size looks like (this was/is/could have been a massive deal).
So obviously very sharp but the point I am trying to make here is that they will be able to differentiate themselves by doing so. Now obviously if you want to do vanilla buyout it may not be your thing, additionally it may be harder to rise through the ranks as (not sure this is an outside in view) would have to find your niche/edge + would have to actually figure out which are the good deals you want to do as everyone will continuously be giving you "GrEaT dEaLs". Also hours are long, very long - maybe because busy on multiple situations or maybe because they also dig very deep into DD items/financials/structuring.
I know a bunch of these guys pretty well. The senior guys are a hodgepodge of PE guys and non-PE FIG guys (bankers mostly).
The team is very very smart — as are all FIG guys at top tier PE. I would argue that career-wise it could actually be better than traditional PE at Apollo since you have a very flexible mandate to draw on all these different pools of capital and ALSO can do PE deals.
But it’s basically ground zero for bad Apollo culture. The tone at the top in this team is bad, even by Apollo standards. The next rung down, in the run of the mill partner ranks you’ve got a bunch of sort of minor leaguers that somehow made it to Apollo so will lay down their life to earn their reason to exist there. They never push back on anything.
Lifestyle is atrocious all the way up the promotion ladder. It is certainly not a sustainable seat — even more so than usually is the case at Apollo. Regardless of seniority, late nights, weekend work, cancelled vacays and working on your honeymoon for stuff that’s not even critical/time-sensitive.
I’m surprised they are interviewing MBAs, they usually don’t and actually look down at b-school kids because the Apollo mentality is that you must not be enough of a killer if you took 2 years off to fuck around in Boston and Chile.
If you’re post-MBA, it’s probably good for a few years of branding, but you’ll be miserable the entire time and your life will be in shambles when you leave.
Thank you for the overview. Can I DM you with a few follow up Qs about the group and my situation? I'd prefer not to put too much personal info on the main board (it might be fairly easy to ID me with it).
Didn't notice your post was anonymous... at a high level then, I was a generalist pre-MBA covering public and private markets, including stressed/distressed and ordinary value including some FIG exposure. With that context, is this just not desirable? One thing I like about the group is that you have tailwinds behind you, especially when that includes the insurance mandate. Looking to the career side, I appreciate promotions are never guaranteed but I hope to have longevity wherever I end up. What happens to your career if you're bouncing around jobs post-MBA in PE? Or is the route simply to go into public markets?
Re: your first question, what does what your prior experience have to do with whether this particular role is desirable or not? It should stand on its own.
Totally agree re: tailwinds. It's a very powerful mandate. You just have to ask yourself if you're going to be okay signing up for that culture/lifestyle. You may be. If so, its a great seat.
The skinny on Apollo is that they will never fire you. You may not get promoted to partner, but you'll just be an execution monkey/principal for an extended period of time. You'll be well paid, but will get smoked on a regular basis, will never make real large cap PE money, and will be on Partners' beck and call.
Bouncing around post-MBA is usually a bad thing. You're allowed maybe a mulligan or two if its early. If you want to go to the public markets, go to the public markets. Why would you burn a few years of your life just to get somewhere else? That's preposterously stupid. You're not a 22 year old college student anymore. Do things because that's wat you want to do, not because no one will blame you for doing it and because it might possibly maybe potentially leave a door open to do something else.
More broadly, it doesn't sound like you have the slightest clue what you want to do. You should probably figure that out first, or this is going to go sideways real fast.
To reframe this then, I saw the post and was immediately attracted to it for the reasons discussed above (thank you again for clarity on the topic). At the same time, I'm aware of Apollo's reputation and have heard that leaving the firm may be difficult if you want to stay in PE. My question then is how do I succeed in this seat if that's what I want for my career and not "be miserable the entire time [with my] life in shambles when i leave"?
How do you succeed in that seat, as in succeed in that particular seat long-term?
** You're probably a bit of an aut, you're incredibly sharp quantitatively and in thinking about bound and structuring risk
** You work non-stop every day and every night
** You run at every opportunity/request/idea flat out as if your life depends on it, regardless of how low probability or assinine it is
** Because your mandate also involves internal strategy at Apollo, the line of reporting also goes up to the most senior people in the firm, which means the work product always needs to be long-form and very formatted/clean. There's no quick and dirty screen grabs and 2-pagers.
** You sacrifice your nights, and weekends, vacations, and life events
** You also sacrifice the idea of being in a relationship with someone of substance, meaning the only person who would be okay signing up for this would be someone who only cares about having a partner with high earnings potential
How do you succeed in that seat as in do it for branding/experience, and then move on?
** I'm not entirely sure. I have anecdotally also heard that its very difficult to exit Apollo, they make it very hard to get a job elsewhere
** You'd probably have to have a very very rich network that you can leverage to basically find a job outside of usual channels, and amongst people that will keep bullet proof confidence. If Apollo finds out you're looking, they'll fire you on the spot.
** You'll also have to overcome the stigma of being an Apollo guy. There's (rightly so) preconceived notions about anyone that works there. I work at a top MF, and despite the Apollo brand and what that probably means about your work ethic and mental horsepower, we would generally never hire anyone from there, with some one off exceptions. People will assume you're aggressive/gruff, sharp elbowed, and a unidimensional workaholic. Or at the very least, knowingly went to work at a place that is all those things. So you'll kind of preselect into other places that also have a very intense acerbic culture.
** The Apollo to top HF exit is more for 2 year Associates. If you did 2y at Goldman then 2y at Apollo, then maybe you're marketable for Pershing or something, IF they are hiring. If you're a post-MBA, they won't want you, you're not enough of a blank slate. Top HFs want virgins, and you're used up.
Knowing absolutely nothing about the group, this is the exact situation I would expect based on it being Apollo and FIG. Sounds absolutely atrocious - life is too short...
By the top do you mean the two co-heads? What does "bad" really mean in this context, compared to the other stories everyone's heard of Apollo's regular PE team
I spoke with a principal in FIG who told me he had a four month stretch of working 9am to 3am, every day, with no days off.
No thx.
LoL, that is absolute insanity.
Any other info you can share from that convo?
Lol
Sounds taxing but also like you'd become a force to be reckoned with in the space. Definitely not for everyone but maybe great for the right person.
Not a group I would want to be in fulltime, but a summer in the group is a solid experience. Certainly a great brand that should help with FT recruiting in the fall/spring.
Does Apollo still pay pre-MBA associates $400k all-in? Is that true for FIG as well or is FIG comp lower than traditional PE?
What is the comp package for post-MBA?
Bump
I’ve done a lot of work with this team—both as clients and counterparties. Very smart guys at the top. Culture seems super intense. Can’t confirm If it’s worse than the rest of Apollo. Anecdotally, an associate whose wife was pregnant at the time told me that some of the more senior guys there view it as a badge of honor if you come into the office within a day or 2 of your first born child being born. Not sure if this is FIG specific, but fucked-up nonetheless.
Like others have said, they invest from several different pools of capital. Until recently, generalist associates worked on FIG deals. As a relatively junior guy working for buyside advisor to Apollo, this often translated into me teaching a junior associate who spends most of his time on media or manufacturing companies about super niche FIG topics that come up rarely even for someone who specializes in FIG--a miserable experience for all involved. Thankfully, they’ve recently started hiring specific associates for the FIG vertical
Speaking of technical skills, do you have any advice for a generalist who's looking to bolster FIG abilities and is already comfortable across the cap stack? I have a bit of depository and speciality finance experience but none really with insurance to date
Pariatur aut minus nam illum quis. Architecto esse et sit enim.
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