Apollo is revamping recruiting and softening its culture. Here's a look.

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Apollo is looking to double assets in five years, and it will need more people — as well as additional funds from investors — to get there.

Some changes have been upgrading office spaces with collaborative-working areas, along with building a new cafeteria, gym, and coffee bar for employees to mingle at.

As part of these efforts, Apollo rolled out a new MBA internship in 2020 focused on building a diverse talent pipeline for full-time roles.

The firm hosted 11 summer associates this year, Apollo told Business Insider. The class was 55% women, 36% minorities, and 9% veterans.

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Comments (77)

 
Funniest
Jul 19, 2020 - 9:05pm

Is there really a single person who takes corporate communications at face value? These are carefully written advertisements meant to portray the firm in a positive light. Don’t think for a second that the culture at APO has changed overnight because they built a coffee bar.

 
Jul 19, 2020 - 11:09pm

I actually wonder if they saw the other thread on APO culture. The announced changes pretty much offer a rebuttal to each of the concerns. Long hours? We have coffee! Stressed out constantly? We have meditation and story time! No time to go to the gym/eat? We’re adding a gym and cafeteria! Homogenous roster? We’re adding diversity hires (somewhere within the structure of the firm...maybe not on the most consequential teams though.)

 
  • Principal in PE - LBOs
Jul 19, 2020 - 9:34pm

Apollo’s motto:
Fucking you at all hours

Apollo’s new motto:
Same great fucking you at all hours, now with free caffeine[TM]

.
 
Jul 21, 2020 - 11:28am

Principal in PE - LBOs:

Apollo’s motto:
Fucking you at all hours

Apollo’s new motto:
Same great fucking you at all hours, now with caffeine and black people!

FTFY

 
  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Jul 19, 2020 - 10:07pm

Don't see a huge issue here. Diversity of thought should be a part of the investment process and if people can do the work - them being different than the Wharton -> 2 years GS TMT -> KKR -> HBS mold is fine. Sure when PE was all financial engineering public companies, that's probably fine, but now with how operationaly intensive alot of investments are and the amount of back channeling going on to do deals/auctions - having the same mold for all of your investment team probably doesn't make the most sense.

My firm has a similar program and the people brought in from it have connections and backgrounds that there's a minute chance we would have gotten taking the traditional 2+2.

Based on Apollo's culture I assume they aren't handholding people wholely unqualified and likely stepping down a tier than they would normally go ie; 2 years at line Deutche bank + 2 years at a MM fund. Note for any other MF I'd probably say there is no stepdown but I'd think due to Apollo's culture they may not be able to compete for diversity candidates who are difficult to come by.

Also while there is a diversity problem in PE, it's definitely alot more meritocratic/better than fortune 500s on a race basis for senior leadership. I can think of at least 7 UMM /MF that "the guy" (ie; Robert Smith) /head of PE (is; Joseph Bae) is a racial minority. Note gender diversity is pretty bad and I can't think of one major female led firm on the PE side (Bond for the GE side).

 
Jul 20, 2020 - 11:19am

Yes, diversity of thought is a great idea. But diversity of skin color does not necessarily translate into diversity of thought.

Also, depends on the group right? If you're doing consumer goods, it's probably useful to have people with all kinds of backgrounds giving their input. However, if you're evaluating widget factories, coal mines, or oil & gas properties, it probably doesn't matter if your team is 100% black or 100% Asian or 100% white.

 
Most Helpful
  • Analyst 1 in Other
Jul 19, 2020 - 11:19pm

55% women? Realistically, how many women in the MBA PE age range (~27ish years old) would be that interested in working at a place like Apollo which is known for brutal hours? I thought most women that age would be looking to find a partner / settle down before its too late. Throw MS if you think this is "sExIsT" but its absolutely something to consider. For every women gunning for apollo PE theres gotta be 5 or 6 men. At the end of the day, any firm that doesnt hire the person who is best for the position as opposed to what looks good on paper in the name of "diversity", is hurting themself.

 
  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jul 20, 2020 - 1:12am

This is true - which is why quotas and % of females is really stupid. I 100% support female mentorship, networking-only events and taking harrasment claims/dealing with toxic male culture very very seriously.

The biggest issues for females isn't breaking in, it's staying in. MBA programs are easier for women to get into and if the bar is lowered again for recruiting, what ends up happening is the caliber of women tend be much lower than the males, which only create unconcious biases etc and hurt those who are actually qualified/capable.

I understand the importance of diversity but it's also really important for firms not to get carried away and try to meet arbitrary quotas to "look good".

This also has the opposite impact for ORMs - the few asian kids that end up breaking in despite their barriers are typically superstars and can run circles around their counterparts atleast from a technical/analytical standpoint.

 
Jul 20, 2020 - 3:50pm

Not sexist at all - I'm a guy and at age 27 I don't want to be grinding til 2am on a regular basis either. Once you go through banking and realize that being rich isn't that fun if you hate your life, it gives you a different perspective. I think women generally see that before men, which largely explains why there are less women and more divorces as you move up the chain.

 
Jul 21, 2020 - 11:59am

Women have to be introspective earlier due to biological factors in having kids. Most 20-something guys in consulting/banking/law aren't thinking a lot about kids or other long-term life plans. Professional services rewards that total dedication in a way that ultimately results in fewer women in senior positions because so many choose to leave the business.

Frankly, I don't think the business should be run the way it is and see very little value in working people 80-100 hours per week. The problem is this, though: at the margin, someone else is always going to be willing to work that extra hour or two to get ahead when the rewards are so great. Unless firms mandate (and actually follow) a maximum hour/week policy, I don't see how that changes.

Apollo is a sweatshop and will remain so. The people at the top of that firm all came from very similar backgrounds, and they all have the same maniacal work ethic. That's not going to change by adding a diversity program. If anything, adding a diversity program probably increases their chances of getting sued by an employee for some form of harassment. Culture has to change from the top down, not the bottom up.

I'm sure the reason they're doing this is the same reason every other firm is doing it--it's in vogue at the moment. I know several board members at major endowments and foundations who ask about URM and female representation at the funds in which they're investing. It's almost impossible to add enough senior women and URMs to make the numbers look good, so they are attempting to message the numbers at the associate and intern ranks.

I almost want to applaud Apollo and Leon Black for the messaging on this. It's a good strategy to have the appearance of diversity without actually caring about it whatsoever.

 
  • Business School in PE - LBOs
Jul 20, 2020 - 12:30am

Pretty conflicted on some of this. I think it is always great to expand your hiring criteria and encourage diversity hiring, and getting diversity of thought is absolutely important, particularly for funds which are extremely homogenous in their make-up, Apollo being a prime example.

However I've seen some of these candidates who are currently interning / their experience. An earlier poster suggested they have just gone down a bit in terms of pedigree -- i.e. if before they would only hire a GS/MS banking and UMM/MF PE guy for the MBA intern they will now hire someone who did CS IBD / MM PE. That's really not the case.

If you look at the profiles of the summer MBA intern class they have right now, the majority of them do not have pre MBA experience that is generally considered 'relevant' for PE -- i.e. no investment banking and no pre-MBA PE experience either. One of them actually worked in a back / mid office role at my earlier roommate's bank.

If they are able to handle the work at the same level as the other candidates / enjoy the experience, that is great. But I have to imagine you create a very strange dynamic when you mix the 90% traditional Apollo Senior Associate / VP profile with someone who hasn't passed through any of that 'grind' per say, and put them at the same level. As 'simple' as the work is in banking, the sophistication increases significantly in PE, and at a fund like Apollo, which is involved in some of the most complex deals and likes to go through much more detailed analysis than almost any other fund, it's not easy work at all. It's easy enough to create these type of programs for Pre-MBA roles, particularly in banking, where the work is not that challenging and the difference between the best analyst in a group and the worst is significantly smaller. When you get to a post-MBA role at a fund like Apollo, that difference will be magnified 10-fold.

In the long term if these policies continue, I think it probably ends up changing the culture of the firm for the better. But I've seen on the banking side associates who were a notch or two below the other associates in a group. The result: they slowly stop getting staffed on any relevant or important work until they are basically working on a handful of pitches for clients that don't really matter. Most get the message and leave before the VP promotion cycle. In the short term, I think this is probably what it will look like at Apollo as well. It would have made more sense to me to see them creating something like this at the Pre-MBA associate level, which in Apollo's case has hardly any women / diversity, and then developing and promoting that talent internally.

 
  • Analyst 2 in IB - Gen
Jul 20, 2020 - 1:19am

Lmao @ everyone here getting their panties in a twist over "muh Senior Associate MF PE spot being filled by an unqualified dIvErSiTy CaNdiDaTe" when that's not what's happening at all. Apollo is just going down the same road that every large asset manager currently is slowly adopting when they take a look at blackstone and realize that they have the right idea. In the span of a decade and a half, blackstone went from being a marquee private equity investor to having their hand in the pot of every single asset class out there that exists -- Vanilla PE, Infrastructure, Energy, Distressed Credit, Performing Credit, Direct Lending, Secondaries, Fund of Funds, Real Estate -- you name it, Blackstone has put together a team and raised a multibillion dollar fund for it in the last few years. Why? Because they're fucking smart and saw the writing on the wall a long time ago -- the PE market is incredibly saturated with tons of funds driving up prices and bringing down returns. While most funds are more than content to just raise a fat new fund anyway for that sweet sweet 2% management fee (and Blackstone is doing that as well), Schwartzman and Friends realized that there is a ton of LP money to be invested in the current environment and not all of it can be fit into their next PE fund -- enter GSO, and now they have a credit arm, but its not GSO anymore, it's Blackstone GSO, and now something clicks in their head that they can staple the Bx brand name to anything and the goodwill they've built up in the investment community will give it the benefit of the doubt. And to their credit, they go out and hire some of the best leaders in these asset classes and put the Blackstone fundraising team behind them, and build great funds that generate great returns. Now they're reaping the 2 and 20 from 20 different funds in 10 different asset classes simultaneously all while growing their brand name even further allowing them to continue the cycle. Nowadays, Blackstone is much more an asset management firm than a PE firm.

And slowly, but surely, everyone else started to see the light as well. There isn't a single megafund pe firm that doesn't have a credit arm anymore, and most have raised other alternative asset funds as well. When Apollo says they want to double assets in five years, do you really think that means they want to quadruple the size of their next flagship PE fund? No, they want a piece of secondaries, or growth equity, or whatever else is hot. Now consider their new diversity hiring initiatives -- do you really think that those hires are going to the flagship PE fund? This is the exact same as all the people jerking off to the article about blackstone expanding their target school list and getting ready to submit their 3.2 ASU resume to the PE team. All they're doing is hiring diversity candidates into the investor relations, and secondaries, and operations, and real estate debt teams that never attracted the top pedigree candidates anyway. Meanwhile, the three PE summer analysts they take a year are still as White and 4.0 Ivy educated and waspy as ever. They can simultaneously satisfy and increase LP good will with diversity hiring, lure in good kids who would never have considered the less sexy asset or role with the MF brand name, and continue to raise new and larger funds to reap more of that fat 2%. Win. Win. Win.

Oh and also, you're probably not getting that Associate spot anyway so stop bitching that someone else is gonna take it and start working on winning it for yourself.

 
  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Jul 20, 2020 - 4:46am

Mate, that’s not how it works. Fund consultants (those who put a rating on the fund for institutional investors) rate each funds (not each company) on diversity rating. Ie, if you want your flagship fund to have a similar rating to black stones flagship fund in the diversity bucket, it’s that funds’ headcount stat that’s being looked at

Array
 
Jul 20, 2020 - 8:14pm

Associate 1 in PE - LBOs:

Mate, that’s not how it works. Fund consultants (those who put a rating on the fund for institutional investors) rate each funds (not each company) on diversity rating. Ie, if you want your flagship fund to have a similar rating to black stones flagship fund in the diversity bucket, it’s that funds’ headcount stat that’s being looked at

No. As someone who has consulted and allocated (and managed a book at a fund) this is not the whole story. Yes, you are absolutely correct in that consultants grade each fund and know and tell their clients that x infra fund or y credit or growth fund is a joke and not to do it. But then the client does it anyway knowing that. And having had that advice. Not all clients are dumb. Why would they do such a “dumb” thing?

It’s because places like Blackstone etc have other top tier funds like the signature PE fund that always meets or exceeds its fundraising target. Now the blue chip LPs always (or usually) get their allocation. But the rest? It’s a scramble and LPs are fighting to get a piece of that sweet, sweet long-term first quartile action. But how to get in?

Enter the slick (and very well paid) IR people or at times the odd senior investment professional. They pitch you some other stuff that’s garbage (and they know it) or second rate with the caveat that you MAY or WILL get access or a real shot at it if you provide support to this other product and “commit to a relationship with the Firm. After all they are long term investors and so are you and it’s all about building a relationship, right? Let’s get to know each other.”

Simply said. Pay fees for this crap product to get access to our sweet and super highly demanded signature product. Otherwise don’t even bother calling.

So that’s what clients do. They invest in like Blackstone Frontier Markets Credit Hedge Fund of Funds or whatever nonsense at whatever terms in order to “build a relationship” and get access the main PE fund.

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 
  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Jul 20, 2020 - 2:26pm

Good post. Would also add that Apollo PE does not credit MBA or past PE exp - meaning you start from Associate 1 just like any other IB analyst. You may however able to take a haircut e.g. you've worked 3 years in some buyside to start as an Associate 2. Not all though, it depends on where you came from. So it is not all bed of roses for the HBS/GSB summers at Apollo, they still have to eat a lot of shit until they make Principal where they can eat less shit.

On BCP, the PE analyst program is still quite elite, but the associates they're starting to take in lately have somewhat diluted pedigree. Good groups no doubt, but some are non-target. Just an observation.

 
Jul 20, 2020 - 8:15pm

Analyst 2 in IB - Gen:

Lmao @ everyone here getting their panties in a twist over "muh Senior Associate MF PE spot being filled by an unqualified dIvErSiTy CaNdiDaTe" when that's not what's happening at all. Apollo is just going down the same road that every large asset manager currently is slowly adopting when they take a look at blackstone and realize that they have the right idea. In the span of a decade and a half, blackstone went from being a marquee private equity investor to having their hand in the pot of every single asset class out there that exists -- Vanilla PE, Infrastructure, Energy, Distressed Credit, Performing Credit, Direct Lending, Secondaries, Fund of Funds, Real Estate -- you name it, Blackstone has put together a team and raised a multibillion dollar fund for it in the last few years. Why? Because they're fucking smart and saw the writing on the wall a long time ago -- the PE market is incredibly saturated with tons of funds driving up prices and bringing down returns. While most funds are more than content to just raise a fat new fund anyway for that sweet sweet 2% management fee (and Blackstone is doing that as well), Schwartzman and Friends realized that there is a ton of LP money to be invested in the current environment and not all of it can be fit into their next PE fund -- enter GSO, and now they have a credit arm, but its not GSO anymore, it's Blackstone GSO, and now something clicks in their head that they can staple the Bx brand name to anything and the goodwill they've built up in the investment community will give it the benefit of the doubt. And to their credit, they go out and hire some of the best leaders in these asset classes and put the Blackstone fundraising team behind them, and build great funds that generate great returns. Now they're reaping the 2 and 20 from 20 different funds in 10 different asset classes simultaneously all while growing their brand name even further allowing them to continue the cycle. Nowadays, Blackstone is much more an asset management firm than a PE firm.

And slowly, but surely, everyone else started to see the light as well. There isn't a single megafund pe firm that doesn't have a credit arm anymore, and most have raised other alternative asset funds as well. When Apollo says they want to double assets in five years, do you really think that means they want to quadruple the size of their next flagship PE fund? No, they want a piece of secondaries, or growth equity, or whatever else is hot. Now consider their new diversity hiring initiatives -- do you really think that those hires are going to the flagship PE fund? This is the exact same as all the people jerking off to the article about blackstone expanding their target school list and getting ready to submit their 3.2 ASU resume to the PE team. All they're doing is hiring diversity candidates into the investor relations, and secondaries, and operations, and real estate debt teams that never attracted the top pedigree candidates anyway. Meanwhile, the three PE summer analysts they take a year are still as White and 4.0 Ivy educated and waspy as ever. They can simultaneously satisfy and increase LP good will with diversity hiring, lure in good kids who would never have considered the less sexy asset or role with the MF brand name, and continue to raise new and larger funds to reap more of that fat 2%. Win. Win. Win.

Oh and also, you're probably not getting that Associate spot anyway so stop bitching that someone else is gonna take it and start working on winning it for yourself.

This. +SB

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 
  • Associate 2 in PE - Other
Jul 20, 2020 - 10:50am

I'm about to apply as diversity to the big ol Apollo.

Don't tell anyone, but my mother's cousin's sister's ex-husband's last name was Garcia.

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jul 20, 2020 - 12:16pm

What do you guys think that the odds are that the apollo culture shit storm of a thread had an impact on this initiative? I think we underestimate the degree to which senior investors and HR follow their brand online and websites like this

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jul 20, 2020 - 2:09pm

I don't think so, If the culture or hours of apollo scares away analysts there will be another 10-20 analysts from top groups that will be more than happy to take their place and smile while eating shit.

Array
 
Jul 20, 2020 - 3:55pm

SmallBrainTime:

I think you're all missing the point that Apollo is HIRING in general and is expecting to GROW.

Good news for the PE folks!!! A sign to not be scurred about the hiring situation. I wonder what this means for Investment and commercial banking.


Yes..I also wonder what this means for commercial banking..

 
Jul 20, 2020 - 5:29pm

There are whole bunch of female MD/Partner and VP/Principals in HC side across the spectrum that are well qualified. There is no “talent drop”. Just look back at your high school class - bunch of girls were better than you

Array
 
  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jul 20, 2020 - 5:52pm

Absolutely agree with you - but the fact of the matter is that in the current recruiting landscape, at least for entry-level roles, it is much more difficult to break in if you're non-diversity. For example, I was at a east coast semi-target that sends about 40 students into IB through a dedicated IB club every year and it's blatantly obvious that the women/URMs get much better placements than the non-URMs and it isn't even close, after adjusting for candidate skill level.

The reality is that many banks/PE funds have suddenly gone on a recruiting spree for diverse candidates and it isn't reflective of the population trying to break into IB.

Now we can get into systemic racism/sexism and correcting past injustices but at THIS point in the game it is much easier as a diverse candidate.

 
  • Intern in IB-M&A
Jul 20, 2020 - 6:04pm

abacab:
look back at your high school class - bunch of girls were better than you

Not to totally derail and I'm sure I'll get MS for this, but did anyone in the middle of the pack actually find this to be the case?

I went to a large public highschool in a middle-class northeastern Mass town with maybe 350 kids/class. The only girls at the top of my class (top 20-30 I guess?) were absolute tryhards. Guys at the top of my class were either absolute geniuses who could ace a calc or physics exam without spending a second in class or middle-of-the-road types who out in a little bit of effort into school but still mostly played sports and partied. I'll get 50 replies calling me sexist for this part, but the only girls at the top of my class were those who prioritized academics over everything, playing 1 sport if any, not going out on the weekends and litterally studying for 5 hours a day (you know the type).

Array
 
Jul 20, 2020 - 7:36pm

Don’t need a genius to do banking / PE. Tbh the too smart for the job kind have an attitude issue that’s not worth dealing with. Also - the competition comes from basically how many are pursuing. Eg historically most girls probably looked at med / law school vs finance so there is a lack of numbers vs guys and it’s a gap that’s slowly but surely closing. Once the numbers even out, it’ll be the same (just like law / med schools where both genders have very sharp / good people, or even consulting).

Array
 
  • Principal in VC
Jul 20, 2020 - 9:36pm

To be clear, the MBA summer program isn’t just Apollo PE. Of the 11 summers I’d be surprised if more than 3 are PE. The rest are credit, IR, ops, and admin type roles. If I had to guess, the PE folks are disproportionately white/Asian males from target schools even if the pool as a whole is “diverse”

Array
 
  • Associate 1 in PE - LBOs
Jul 21, 2020 - 6:45am

Honestly, as a minority, I think these programs are ineffective and stupid - much more useful and fair if we can:
1) on the day to day job, make socialization less about expensive sports that some demographics (incl. poor whites) don't have access to - squash, golf, skiing, tennis, anyone? can we do that? likely possible but its a lot of effort and CEOs/MDs may not care enough
2) training VP/Principals/MDs such that they dont feel like they like someone more just because they have a lot in common - same sports team, upbringining, frats, etc - is it possible? likely not since all humans are biased
3) make mentorship/apprenticeship something mid/senior people are actually evaluated on, if you want fair trasmission of job skills
4) oh, and let me add - no one should be allowed to get a job through "birth-based networking" - aka from dad/mom/uncle/Choat Rosemary alum - are we willing to go there? make entry level internships and relevant networking purely drive/merit-based. For every financial institution/small investment firm that's willing to turn down their founder's son/daughter for internship, that's one step to that direction. Otherwise, you are not really doing anything to stop the priviledge

Array
 
Jul 22, 2020 - 10:27pm

Associate 1 in PE - LBOs:

Honestly, as a minority, I think these programs are ineffective and stupid - much more useful and fair if we can:
1) on the day to day job, make socialization less about expensive sports that some demographics (incl. poor whites) don't have access to - squash, golf, skiing, tennis, anyone? can we do that? likely possible but its a lot of effort and CEOs/MDs may not care enough
2) training VP/Principals/MDs such that they dont feel like they like someone more just because they have a lot in common - same sports team, upbringining, frats, etc - is it possible? likely not since all humans are biased
3) make mentorship/apprenticeship something mid/senior people are actually evaluated on, if you want fair trasmission of job skills
4) oh, and let me add - no one should be allowed to get a job through "birth-based networking" - aka from dad/mom/uncle/Choat Rosemary alum - are we willing to go there? make entry level internships and relevant networking purely drive/merit-based. For every financial institution/small investment firm that's willing to turn down their founder's son/daughter for internship, that's one step to that direction. Otherwise, you are not really doing anything to stop the priviledge

  1. Is spot on. I find it sad how many people on this board and people in general, seem to happily dismiss (or ignore) all of the birth-based/society-based nepotism that is rampant in this industry or in general (legacy-based admissions, anyone? or those Ivy League sailing admits?).

Plenty of people who otherwise wouldn't get a look in, take spots, whether at banks or funds or schools. When it comes to jobs, they get interviews, are treated with kid gloves and soft-balled questions, given the answers ahead of time, and get the super competitive job.

This is not to say that these individuals are not smart or hard working, far from it. But most aren't 4.0, triple major types who lurk here and have taught themselves to LBO model by the middle of freshman year of college.

They go to target schools, get mediocre to good grades and end up getting in. Ahead of much more "qualified" (whatever that means) candidates. And yet, most people here and in general seem to love picking on women and URMs for "unjustly" getting a look in.

Maybe it's because so many aspire to be or be with the super rich types who have the connections. Beats me.

Sincerely,
A Non-URM dude

I used to do Asia-Pacific PE (kind of like FoF). Now I do something else but happy to try and answer questions on that stuff.
 
Jul 24, 2020 - 12:37pm

Hey non-URM dude:

I can name on one hand the number of UMM/MF associates who are “legacy hires” or didn’t earn their seat. Even if you went to Princeton on the sailing team and got an an analyst offer in IBD (thanks to Daddy) you simply wouldn’t survive in the PE bullpen without grit and work ethic that comes from years of busting your a$$.

Sounds to me like you’re making excuses for yourself. Try working harder next time.

 
  • Analyst 3+ in Consulting
Jul 21, 2020 - 2:15pm

Do we think Apollo will ever take ex-consultants? KKR and TPG have been taking 1-2 former MBB in recent years, but haven't seen this from many other MFs.

Array
 
  • Associate 3 in Other
Jul 22, 2020 - 7:49pm

I would've thought this is the case too; they have tons of HBS alums but was shocked to see that at the entire firm they have 2 GSB alums, one of which is an intern...how is that possible?

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