Are we living in the end times?

Given how the (western) world seems to be deteriorating, do y´all think that we live in the end times as the Bible foretold?

Isaiah 46:10 - From the beginning, I (God) foretell the outcome, And from long ago the things that have not yet been done. I say, ‘My decision will stand, And I will do whatever I please.’


2.Timothy 3:1-5 - But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.  For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal,  having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness,  betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God,  having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power and from these turn away.

 

CollierV

Given how the (western) world seems to be deteriorating, do y´all think that we live in the end times as the Bible foretold?

Go to Singapore, Shenzhen, Shanghai or Seoul. The world is doing just fine...

 

Those four cities are the products of totalitarian regimes that will inevitably crumble, China especially. 

 

not addressing the "end times" stuff that has been talked about forever, just curious lloyd, you've been a fan of china ever since you've been on the forums and it's obviously not a popular perspective for a US-based crowd, I'm legitimately curious though - how do you square perceived human rights differences (free speech et al) with perceived economic prosperity? that's always been a difficult thing for me to get past, but I'm betting I'm missing something

 

If I could choose between human rights or economic prosperity, I would choose economic prosperity. It's not a coincidence that Singapore, China, and Taiwan were authoritarian dictatorships before becoming wealthy.. it's a misconception that authoritarian governments don't work and you need democracy to have prosperity. That's generally true, but the outliers like Singapore, China, and Taiwan have done well. It's a high risk, high reward strategy with most failing.

The world is not a binary scale with China being "oppressed" and the United States being "free"...

I think the Scandinavian countries like Norway are freer countries than the United States.  if you're over half the country living paycheck to paycheck are you free? The United States has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world, no one would argue that our prisoners are free. Having the ability to own an AR-15 isn't freedom, freedom is the ability to do what you want with your own life. I think viewing the United States as a free country to begin with is flawed - you can be free here, but most aren't because the economic prosperity is not shared by all. Freedom is a sliding scale, and generally, what makes you free is having more money. 

The Chinese have an effective system which works for them, and they're also a sovereign nation who can do whatever they want within their borders. Are they doing the right things with human rights? No, its absolutely appalling and getting worse. I know people who live in Xinjiang, I know HK dissidents, I know LGBT people in China who quite frankly do not have the same freedom as in the United States, I've walked in the slums for the migrant workers who build all the shiny new skyscrapers and who get chewed up and spit out by the Chinese Hukou residency, I've seen the dark side of China and for those people, life is very bad and they would benefit from having more freedom. But those people are not the majority and China is still a great nation. Because for the people living in wealthy coastal cities, life is good. Even the people living in rural China, which has been poor for thousands of years, life is better. 

Freedom and human rights is important, and the best countries in the world have it, but having the ability to openly protest or criticize the government is not something that's essential to have a good life or have your hierarchy of needs met. For most people in the world, real freedom is economic freedom and earning more money. Real freedom is a weighted average between economic freedom and human rights and free speech, with most of the weight going towards financial freedom. 
 

 

Does the world actually suck now though? For the people living on $1 a day maybe, but I think life is pretty fucking great

 

The world is indifferent. Religion is a made-up concept. People have become mentally weaker and choose to complain about the US all of the time instead of seeing all of the great things the country offers to its people. No country is perfect, but why are people from all over the world trying to become US citizens? The west is awesome.

 

Will try to answer a question from a different point of view. So, will humanity vanish and disappear? If you mean, humans as biological creatures I think it will fade away if major natural disaster, biological replacement will happen. Otherwise we will live like animals live and become extint like animals do. (not counting hunting). If you mean human civilization, then it is a different story. Humans like animals prefer living in a totally free place like in wild nature from where we are from. If you compare the years in which humans lived in wild nature (2-3 million years) and in which humans lived in governments (couple of thousand years), you can see that wild nature still is the major part of our existence. Since goverments emerged in which one group controlled another one, there were a lots of rebellions, revolutions, and protests. In a relatively free places of the world, people still demand more and more. Maybe, humanity just want to back to its roots in living in wild nature.

Looks pretty anarchist but just wanted to point out a different view.

 

Meh, I'm fairly sure if you had the opportunity to ask any religious person at any point in history if we are nearing the end times, their answer would, incorrectly, be yes. More often than not, these scriptures just serve as confirmation bias in the face of other scriptures that can easily be viewed as conflicting or not accurately depicting our situation.

I especially don't understand how religious people can confidently declare when the end times are when the bible says about the rapture & return of God: 

1 Thessalonians 5:2 & 3: "For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.  

 Matthew 24:27: "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

His return will obviously be instantaneous and unexpected. Whatever signs people are seeing or disillusionment you or anyone else may have about the habits and practices of the people of the West will not bring about God's return.

Re: oft-quoted 2.Timothy 3:1-5. If we actually dogmatically follow this, are current times really signs of the end times? Sounds like habits/practices you can trace back to any point in time. "lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God?" Sounds like 1960-70s drug use.  "having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, without love of goodness" Sounds like World Wars to me. I think you get the point here - there is nothing stated that is especially unique to our time. There's even a verse somewhere in this chapter that says men will become more and more depraved. If that were true, how do you explain the sharp fall in crime in the West over the last 2+ decades?  

 

In Matthew 24 Jesus said that all of the events of which He spoke would happen in that generation, including the gospel being preached to the entire world. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

There are parts of the world who have not heard the Gospel. We still have some time left - I don’t think this is the end of times.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

First off, there is more to this world than the West. The West declining doesn’t imply the entire world is ending but for the purposes of this comment I’ll entertain your POV.

Usually when I hear this being mentioned they will point to the fact that the founding of America was based in Christianity and compare that with declining Christian affiliation in the US or point back to the early/mid 20th century when the Bible was read in public schools. The points that are conveniently missed of course is that slavery was legal in the western world 300 years ago and even in the 1940s lynchings by the KKK were allowed to go on without punishment. We had drafts in the 20th century where thousands of men were split from their GF or Newly wed wife and led into a pointless war only to die a few months later on the ground. Native Americans were taken from their homes and thrown in reserves with the worst agricultural land. Japanese Americans were thrown in interment camps without fair trial. The Holocaust happened in the Western world where Jews and gypsies were tortured and slaughtered like animals. The list goes on and on.

Sure the 21sf century/late 20th century has its issues, but objectively we’ve never quite had a time like this in the Western World where right of life, property rights and basic freedoms are respected to this extent. Things aren’t perfect (such as abortion) but I definitely would not say that we are in a spot where we are so bad that the world should just end.

Array
 

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