Article about the death of trading

As a former sell-side trader, I related to and felt the same about the points made in this article from efinancialcareers.

Here are some pieces of it:

"If you work in trading now, you should be concerned. First came the algorithms wiping out thousands of jobs, and now large investment banks are unveiling programmes to rapidly downsize their fixed income, currencies and commodities trading businesses.

This isn’t exactly a great advert for fresh graduates looking for their first job on Wall Street, and many of the best and brightest are now seeking jobs in the tech sector.

“There has been a drain of talent into high tech were the rewards can be great if you own the IP,” says Owen Jeff, managing director at Accenture trading services in London.

“Traders are increasingly being replaced by machines,” says Richard Lipstein, a New York recruiter. Trading volumes are going down and with them commissions. Fixed income is already following the automation path set by equities, he added.

“The most dangerous place to be a trader these days is in fixed income. If you have survived this long in equities, you will probably continue to survive,” he says.

It’s no secret that any trader worth their salt these days needs to learn how to code, but there are bigger opportunities outside of the trading floor. Lipstein says that Big Data analytics is the new big thing as investment banks begin to hire in talent in this area.

Meanwhile any trading roles remain over-subscribed. When she places an ad for traders, she is swamped with resumes from laid off sell-side traders. She places occasional buy-side positions, but funds don’t want to hire sell-side traders.

Many have lost their jobs and have a hard time finding other work because trading is not a readily transferrable skill.

“If they were lucky and smart and saved money, sell-side traders can go and buy a business and do something completely different.”

 

As someone who has been trading for the past 10 years in the fixed income futures realm I agree fully with the article. This year I stopped trading on my own in order to learn programming languages such as python and r. At first it was to attempt to join a prop trading firm again but after interviewing with a couple of 2nd tier firms, my goal now is to land a entry level data analyst role wherever I can. I was never as profitable as some great traders(my best years were mid six figures) over the past ten years so my track record of profitability means virtually nothing to trading firms. Yet some of those same guys have not made the effort to learn how to program like I have. It sucks but I am trying to keep my head up.

 
Best Response
bid_offer:

As someone who has been trading for the past 10 years in the fixed income futures realm I agree fully with the article. This year I stopped trading on my own in order to learn programming languages such as python and r. At first it was to attempt to join a prop trading firm again but after interviewing with a couple of 2nd tier firms, my goal now is to land a entry level data analyst role wherever I can. I was never as profitable as some great traders(my best years were mid six figures) over the past ten years so my track record of profitability means virtually nothing to trading firms. Yet some of those same guys have not made the effort to learn how to program like I have. It sucks but I am trying to keep my head up.

yikes. data analyst roles usually top out at like 80k a year at some big insurance companies and maybe ops analyst roles at big banks. kind of a step back , no?

if you want to make the big bucks in data analysis, data science is where the $$ is ...but you need PhD level knowledge for alot of them jobs. or atleast the degree

alpha currency trader wanna-be
 
undefined:
bid_offer:
As someone who has been trading for the past 10 years in the fixed income futures realm I agree fully with the article. This year I stopped trading on my own in order to learn programming languages such as python and r. At first it was to attempt to join a prop trading firm again but after interviewing with a couple of 2nd tier firms, my goal now is to land a entry level data analyst role wherever I can. I was never as profitable as some great traders(my best years were mid six figures) over the past ten years so my track record of profitability means virtually nothing to trading firms. Yet some of those same guys have not made the effort to learn how to program like I have. It sucks but I am trying to keep my head up.

yikes. data analyst roles usually top out at like 80k a year at some big insurance companies and maybe ops analyst roles at big banks. kind of a step back , no?

if you want to make the big bucks in data analysis, data science is where the $$ is ...but you need PhD level knowledge for alot of them jobs. or atleast the degree

i agree, a step back but isn't it a good think that i'm making an attempt to increase my data/programming skills? things have changed so much in the futures/options trading field over last 10 years. when i started in trading the goal was to become a member and trade on the floor, now being on the floor is a joke as everything is electronic, not only electronic but automated/programmed.

aside from data analysis roles, i'm also looking at entry-level/mid-level positions in mbs, energy, oil & gas trading/hedging roles as i think i have transferable skills from my futures & options trading experience.

if you have any suggestions i'm listening with open ears.

 
undefined:
undefined:
bid_offer:As someone who has been trading for the past 10 years in the fixed income futures realm I agree fully with the article. This year I stopped trading on my own in order to learn programming languages such as python and r. At first it was to attempt to join a prop trading firm again but after interviewing with a couple of 2nd tier firms, my goal now is to land a entry level data analyst role wherever I can. I was never as profitable as some great traders(my best years were mid six figures) over the past ten years so my track record of profitability means virtually nothing to trading firms. Yet some of those same guys have not made the effort to learn how to program like I have. It sucks but I am trying to keep my head up.yikes. data analyst roles usually top out at like 80k a year at some big insurance companies and maybe ops analyst roles at big banks. kind of a step back , no?if you want to make the big bucks in data analysis, data science is where the $$ is ...but you need PhD level knowledge for alot of them jobs. or atleast the degree

i agree, a step back but isn't it a good think that i'm making an attempt to increase my data/programming skills? things have changed so much in the futures/options trading field over last 10 years. when i started in trading the goal was to become a member and trade on the floor, now being on the floor is a joke as everything is electronic, not only electronic but automated/programmed.

aside from data analysis roles, i'm also looking at entry-level/mid-level positions in mbs, energy, oil & gas trading/hedging roles as i think i have transferable skills from my futures & options trading experience.

if you have any suggestions i'm listening with open ears.

ive worked at a few big F500 type corporations (insurance and some consumer product goods) and all I can say is being good at excel/vba will put you above most people out there. Also..knowing access is important too and knowing enough SQL to pull data

alot of people hate on access but many departments in big corps that deal with data and numbers rely on it

you'll probably have to take a contract-temp type of job for a year or two to get some experience on your resume but after that you should be good to go.

alpha currency trader wanna-be
 

Velit quaerat voluptate molestias id. Sit omnis quo nisi. Temporibus neque qui tempore ab.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
5
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
6
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
7
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”