Avoid S&T at all costs

If you were an undergraduate of the class of 2016 and were interested in the markets, would you aim S&T, even wit hthe current changes in regulation and recruiting?Recruiting seems to be currently in shit especially for S&T (Citi S&T gave 120 superdays and is planning to hire 5??)

Do you think it'd be wiser to aim S&T in asia instead (ex. HK, Singapore)... I'm also guessing spots for role quantitative roles (derivatives) are less competitive? Need your opinions WSO, or I'm just gna go the typical ivy-> 2 year IBD -> PE/HF route..

Comments (17)

 
Oct 27, 2012 - 3:07am

Yeah I mean first and foremost go for the role that you think you would enjoy the most, IB and S&T are polar opposite in terms of lifestyle, people, work, etc. But all else aside it seems that S&T is experiencing a secular decline while banking is in more of a cyclical rut. At the very least I would avoid vanilla equity S&T since it is the most likely to be in decline.

 
Oct 27, 2012 - 5:46am

Raptor.45:
Yeah I mean first and foremost go for the role that you think you would enjoy the most, IB and S&T are polar opposite in terms of lifestyle, people, work, etc. But all else aside it seems that S&T is experiencing a secular decline while banking is in more of a cyclical rut. At the very least I would avoid vanilla equity S&T since it is the most likely to be in decline.

Give me a break. Secular decline? Maybe for a few products but the fixed income space will get very interesting once we lift off the zero bound and people have been knocking against cash equities for the past 30 years. But those traders are still there and the algos and HFTs are starting to get axe.

OP, 2016 is an eternity away in this business (or most businesses for that matter). Figure out what you like first. There may not even be an Ivy-Top BB-PE-MBA-PE path in 4 years.

 
Oct 27, 2012 - 11:47am

GoodBread:
Raptor.45:
Yeah I mean first and foremost go for the role that you think you would enjoy the most, IB and S&T are polar opposite in terms of lifestyle, people, work, etc. But all else aside it seems that S&T is experiencing a secular decline while banking is in more of a cyclical rut. At the very least I would avoid vanilla equity S&T since it is the most likely to be in decline.

Give me a break. Secular decline? Maybe for a few products but the fixed income space will get very interesting once we lift off the zero bound and people have been knocking against cash equities for the past 30 years. But those traders are still there and the algos and HFTs are starting to get axe.

OP, 2016 is an eternity away in this business (or most businesses for that matter). Figure out what you like first. There may not even be an Ivy-Top BB-PE-MBA-PE path in 4 years.


Absolutely agree. Credit and rates will continue to be very interesting spaces. And as far as this "stay away from vanilla equity" comment, it's a good recommendation but fundamentally misleading, because cash equity desks are already so small. Equities trading is now dominated by delta-1 and vol products - banks don't have large cash desks.
 
Oct 27, 2012 - 11:49am

Raptor.45:
Yeah I mean first and foremost go for the role that you think you would enjoy the most, IB and S&T are polar opposite in terms of lifestyle, people, work, etc. But all else aside it seems that S&T is experiencing a secular decline while banking is in more of a cyclical rut. At the very least I would avoid vanilla equity S&T since it is the most likely to be in decline.

No way is S&T in secular decline. It's stupid to make such judgments on anecdotal evidence (like reading someone's comments on a website) and with no experience in the field. For whatever reason WSO has been declaring S&T half-dead for weeks and it is so far from the truth. I think this trend is driven from policy and regulation risk, but people just don't understand that markets are resilient. Regulation has been a hot topic since 2008, yet sales and trading is still one of the most profitable business lines for the big banks. Many of them even experienced greater revenue growth in S&T than banking

It is true that S&T hired fewer this summer than expected, but that doesn't mean that the opportunities aren't essentially endless if you do get in. Lower hiring is also more common in S&T because many programs are structured in a way where interns meet a desk or two - hopefully network with some more - and if they find a home at a desk by the end of the summer they're good. Otherwise they get cut

 
Oct 27, 2012 - 12:46pm

Sales will always be around, how can you get computers to do sales man? As for trading, yes it will be in decline should the banks give the go ahead with algorithmic.

 
Oct 27, 2012 - 1:11pm

aspharagus:
Sales will always be around, how can you get computers to do sales man? As for trading, yes it will be in decline should the banks give the go ahead with algorithmic.

The move to electronic trading has been going on since the 90s. It's not a new thing. The fact is a computer cannot trade in illiquid markets. A computer can't trade distressed debt or mortgage-backed securities for example, because no one can build a model comprehensive enough to account for all the factors in those markets.
 
Oct 27, 2012 - 9:00pm

Nothing is worse off than 2008. 2008-2010 cleaned up most of the easy money and its gone. So you need to work harder nowadays, if you call that a decline and eventual death than be it, it is probably not for you. Recruiting has been cruddy for a long time and no magical boom is in sight, so if 5/120 scares you again it's not for you, but that is just the facts of the current state of the industry.

 
Oct 28, 2012 - 2:57pm

Koho:
If Obama wins the election and dodd-frank gets passed, credit will be one of the worst places to work. tread carefully..

Totally agree. Rates desks are getting hit hard by dodd-frank, as are a lot of commodity desks. I'd definitely stay away from swaps and other OTC products until we know what the regulatory environment is going to look like.

 
Oct 28, 2012 - 3:02pm

turk1:
Koho:
If Obama wins the election and dodd-frank gets passed, credit will be one of the worst places to work. tread carefully..

Totally agree. Rates desks are getting hit hard by dodd-frank, as are a lot of commodity desks. I'd definitely stay away from swaps and other OTC products until we know what the regulatory environment is going to look like.

What would you recommend as the safest desk given the current market conditions?

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