In my early 20s, I really believed that in order to succeed all you need is work really hard. You gotta be gritty to succeed. You gotta put in long hours to be successful. You gotta be very good at technical things and establish yourself as a thought leader in particular domain. I don't think all of these assumptions are necessary wrong - they are necessary building blocks in your 20s. But if you still doing that in your 30s in this mindset, you are doing everything wrong.
Things to focus in your 30s:
Improve your communication skills:
It covers writing, speaking, and also non-verbal communications. For recently turned 30, in the last few years, I find this extremely annoying. I always thought to myself, "this is bullshit - he knew I didn't meant it this way - he is twisting my words". But as you move up in the career ladder, being able to communicate well is extremely important. This brings up to my next point.
Dress the part:
I am not saying that wear a suit all the time. In some case, that might actually be a bad idea. In order to do your job well, you really need to dress the part. Meeting with clients at outdoor (hunting season), ditch the suits. Doing a town hall meeting with local folks for your social organization - ditch the suit; put on a polo shirt with jeans or casual dress shirt (roll up your sleeve) with a khaki pant. If it were a high-end charity event, get a tux. It took me awhile to accept this. I always thought that "this is fucking stupid; why can't I wear whatever the fuck I want - I have my fucking right." Dressing the part is also an important way of communication.
Be a connector:
You have already built up your resume as a technical expert in your 20s. Your 30s is all about putting it all together. My favorite analogy is learning how to use different weapons (i.e. sword, gun, hand to hand combat, explosive) in your 20s. But when you get to 30s, it is more about thinking in term of how to use the right combinations of right weapons to get things done. Is this a undercover operation (corporate espionage)? Is this a boardroom warfare? Is this a hostile takeover (time to dig dirt against your target)? Net net, what I am saying is that your jobs in your 30s is learning how to best package yourself learning how to utilize all of your skill sets in a perfect way. Another analogy is like learning how to fight. You might have picked taekwondo, judo, karate, BJJ, muay-thai in your early 20s. But when you get to your 30s, it is all about winning the fight. No one give a shit if you were a blackbelt in taekwondo, you are in the fucking UFC. Your job is to knock your opponent out no matter how he comes at you.
Managing people:
cI have seen a lot of people who are really good analysts and associates but really terrible vps and mds. The problem is that they are still thinking like an associate. They just want to become a better version of associate - not knowing that you have to learn a whole new skill sets to move up. When you move up, you spend more time managing clients and political bickering. This is just a part of the process. Maybe a deal can be struck over a napkin scratch without going through thousand of pitches. Maybe a deal falls through but this allows you to work on your next deal. You also need to learn how to train your generals (vps) to work for you willingly in your best interest. And that has nothing to do with being an excel monkey.
Giving back to community:
Some may think that this is all pro-bono bullshit but being an important member of your community is extremely important for your success at work. If people see you taking a leadership position in your community, you will attract the right person (i.e. clients, future employees, investors, sponsors). You will be the go-to person; with that political capital, you build up your network. Your powerful network bring you news (a lot of nonpublic info that you can get a leg up against your competition) - be in deal sourcing, introducing the right partners and hiring the top executive for your firm.
Mod Note (Andy): Throwback Thursday - this comment from 8/25/15 was originally posted in the thread Hard work and sacrifice will get you only so far and we thought it deserved its own spot on the frontpage
Great advice in here, thanks for sharing.
Just what the doctor ordered...
Solid, advice. Like the part about dressing the part.
Big fan of the political capital idea and dressing the part. I've been looking for ways to get actively involvd in my communities as I have seen the network development first hand for my dad. Very impressive information ring, once you work your way up that ladder a bit.
Dressing the part is something I slide back and forth on in my work place. I'm always dressed well compared to others in my office, but I still have my fuck it days and I'd like to limit those. I enjoy the confidence boost I have when I look really sharp, not sure productivity is higher compared to when I feel more comfortable though.
The part about communication is key. I was shocked when I first realized the amount of time that can get wasted because someone wasn't clear in an email and a junior banker or a client went barking up the wrong tree. A half week's worth of wasted work can push a deal back 1-2 weeks, which becomes extremely frustrating to everyone when it happens 2 or 3 times in a deal.
Never really thought how pro bono type work and volunteering could be used used as political capital in the future. Knocking out 2 birds with 1 stone.
I'll be 31 soon and agree with all of this. I would just add that I've more recently realized just how nebulous the concept of "success" is. In my early 20s, I was more inclined to think that life was a race and that there were objective measures by which you can judge someone. I think many people in/immediately out of college think like that, which is why there are so many "which job/bank/role is more prestigious" threads here. In real life you're constantly learning about yourself, your interests, and skills. Becoming an MD for example isn't worth it if it isn't a good fit for you and makes you miserable.
Social media sucks, and no one wants to hear they are doing poorly compared to good ole dipshit back from high school. Information is shared far more than it ever was, and because money is often seen as the basis of success by younger people, people often validate themselves via salary comparison. Something along this line is my 2 cents.
It takes a few up and down moments and experience in life to realize, and appreciate, that success is relative.
Prestigious roles could be used as an indicator for success when you're younger.
I'm in my twenties but as I get older I have to agree with OP. Occasionally I would have to work with people from Goldman Sachs, I realized even though they were in roles more prestigious than mine, that's not what I wanted out of life.
Probably because school is basically exactly like this, and school is all you know until you've been in the real world for a little while.
I am on the other side of the fence and I really do envy most of the people on this board who made it into IB right after college. IMO, it feels like you have your whole life to "find yourself" and whatever you might say, being in IB is sure as hell better than being your typical underemployed (or unemployed) millennial that has to move back home with his parents because he couldn't get a nice paying gig after college.
Grass is greener on the other side, some might say, but I envy the kids who get to work 80 hrs a week in a lucrative profession and are practically set for life. The most important in your 20s, IMO, is to get your career on track. Nothing more embarrassing and soul crushing than to be idle in your 20s when your energy levels are at their highest.
Me right now.
This got me hard
Awesome in 20's, terrible in 30's (Originally Posted: 09/19/2009)
Hello:
Consulting seems like the most fun job ever while you're in you 20's: the pay is decent, you get to travel a lot, WEEKENDS OFF, and if you're lucky enough to travel to cool cities, you can usually stay the weekend.
When you're in your 30's, however, and probably have a family, then all that travel will be annoying, and weekends off don't matter much if you're not partying.
So basically, I would love to enter consulting, do the job for around like 5 years, and then transition out. Is this something that is possible, and how often does it happen? I've heard of the MBA being a great way to break into consulting, but to break out? If so, what types of positions are possible: hedge funds, PE, S&T? I have no interest in investment banking.
The reason I'm asking is that I have 1.5 yrs of study left, and if I want to enter consulting, I'll try to get an internship for next summer. Since the interviews are in Jan usually, I should start preparing for them from now. But I'm 100% sure that I won't want to remain in consulting long term.
Thanks!
No need to share, keep that carnal excitement to yourself.
The skill set developed during consulting are applicable to a variety of fields (i.e. corporate strategy, brand management, PE, entrepreneurship, etc.). Doing a 2-5 year stint at M/B/B or one of the other firms will prepare you for a variety of other fields and will open a lot of doors (esp. if you come from one of the big 3).
Great! So I should get started on prepping for case interviews then.
A friend of mine made a very smooth transition from financial business strategy consulting to I-Banking at Citi. You might want to reconsider I-Banking because the core of it is consulting. At least you wouldn't come in as a professional Starbucks/takeout getter. PE and HFs might work too. I haven't heard of any McKinsey or Accenture alums moving into S&T
The hours are just not worth it for me in investment banking. I think after you hit like the 60 hours a week thing, I would rather get more free time rather than more money. S&T has (from what I've heard) much better work life balance.
what are the big 3 in consulting again?
McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group.
Some PE shops love former consultants - Golden Gate comes to mind off the top of my head, I'm sure there are others.
It's generally easier to be a consultant in your 20s rather than 30s, but I can say for sure that at the office I work at (MBB) people have stayed on for their entire careers. As you become more senior, the lifestyle becomes more manageable and you have more control over the type of cases you work on (meaning you can elect not to be on a traveling case if you play your cards right). I know for sure three managers in my office never traveled beyond our office city - but this is driven by the type of work in that city (if it is local or not).
As someone who's worked in both investment banking (at a top firm) and at MBB, I can say that I found the work and lifestyle much more manageable in consulting. So if you are weighing these options, I found consulting to be the winner. If you look from the perspective of being at a more senior level, senior consultants (with travel) still work less than senior bankers!
Feel free to reach out if you have specific questions.
Chasing Consultants, Breaking Bankers http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot.com/
Consulting is already a terrible job in your 20s as well if you're not suited/up for it.
is it just me or did the "be a connector" section make no sense
Sorry. MMA fan here. English isn't my first language. What I am trying to say post 30s is just putting everything together rather than just doing one specific thing. Leading a project vs putting together a spreadsheet.
Reading these types of posts confirms that I have no inclination of working corporate for the rest of my life.
Word fucking up right here. This is something I see people failing at constantly. VPs are expected to manage client (e.g. buyer/seller, issuer, etc.) and other parties (e.g. legal, consultants, internal team, etc.), while managing their time and growing the revenue streams. Not to mention still killing it at execution. Bottom line; if you can't do Project Management--I mean real PM, not just maintaining a spreadsheet and delegating, then you're probably screwed.
Oh and soft skills.
I also wonder how big of a role social media is going to play for the 30 somethings of tomorrow who grew up in the Facebook, Instagram, and most importantly LinkedIn age. It seems like us millennials judge each other more by Instagram follower count than we do quality of the individual, could we wake up to a group of 30 something scrambling to get 1k Instagram followers?
This is similar to advice I got from various sources. A partner at an Assurance company basically told me exactly this in relations to how company chooses its partners and why and how the company's hierarchy gets progressively thinner. Basically, the first thing you need to figure out are your technical skills. That's a condition easily met by most in the field. It's not rocket science and there's a large supply of people who meet this criteria. Second, if you want to progress, you need to have managerial skills. This is also a must when people start marrying and having to balance work - life in a tougher environment. This is where many great technical people simply fall of the cliff. They can't manage. The third milestone is by far the toughest. Becoming partner means having sales skills. This is a completely different skill set compared to technical or even managerial one. This is the toughest hurdle, especially if you're coming from a strong quantitative background.
People in other various backgrounds have given me similar advice. Grind out 5 - 7 years, then position yourself in your 30s to capitalize on your knowledge and connections.
Thank you for a great post. I have seen a couple of your threads and wanted to reach out to you in PM, however, cant do it for some reason ( a technical issue).
From what I learned you received your education in the USA as an international student. I wonder if you can give me some advice.
I am an international student myself. I had a job offer after graduation in the UK, however, 3 weeks after getting my diploma in May I was told that I didn't get my work visa and my offer got withdrawn.I decided to stay in the USA, apply for OPT and try to get some work experience here and maybe get lucky enough to get sponsored. I guess my MAIN goal is just truly to get work experience since I am terrified to have a huge gap in my resume. Am I making a mistake here? Should I have tried to go home and try to get something there? I am from the European country which is not a part of EU, hence I needed the work visa.
If you have any tips on how to approach this and what to do I would truly appreciate it. If you could also give me some tips on networking? Cold emailing, cold calling. I have been contacting some people and scheduling calls with them, however as we talk about them and their field, i ask for advice, the conversation just doesn't end with them saying that they might have a position open or perhaps that they might refer me to someone who might be looking for an intern. Should I start plainly asking people if they have opportunities in their team or if I could use them as a referral when I apply to their company?
Thank you so much and hope all is well with your business! Please feel free to PM me instead since it was my intention from the beginning anyway.
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