1/15/18

First, it goes without saying that men who actually rape or assault women or use their power to blackmail, threaten, or intimidate women into engaging in sex, are disgusting human beings who should be castrated and locked up. There is no excuse for it: period.

At the same time though, an unfortunate consequence of MeToo is that it fails to blur the clear line of demarcation between what I described above and male-female social and sexual interaction that comes across as awkward or uncomfortable. In addition, MeToo essentially infantilizes women, treating them as helpless agents who have no control over any aspect of an interaction with a man, as if they are observing from afar. This is ultimately degrading to women and not helpful to their empowerment.

This brings us to Aziz Ansari. I'm a huge fan, so I when I first read the headlines, I was absolutely shocked and disappointed. Then, I read the account by the woman, who submitted it to the salacious babes.net website. I became convinced that Ansari is the victim, falsely accused of sexual assault.

Here is a brief synopsis of the events that transpired:

  1. The woman, a 23-year old Brooklyn photographer who is referred to as "Grace" in the article, attended the Emmy after party last September, in L.A. She was there with a date. She noticed that Aziz was taking pictures with vintage 80's camera, the same kind that she uses. She was a bit drunk and felt confident and approached Aziz. They started talking, but since she was already there with a date, their interaction was limited.
  2. As she was leaving, Aziz approached her and asked for her number. The next day, she flew back to NYC. Over the next week, they exchanged flirtatious text messages and agreed to go on a date.
  3. "Grace" was super pumped up, excited to be going out with a funny comedian and a celebrity. She consulted her friends on what to wear.
  4. On date night, Aziz told her to meet him at his apartment for pre-drinks, which she did. Afterwards, they went to a seafood restaurant a few blocks from Aziz's apartment (any other straight bros also arrange to meet with a girl not too far from his apartment? yeah this is something we've all done). They had dinner and drinks, and Aziz suggested they go back to his place. "Grace" thought it was "strange" that he wanted to go back to his place so quickly, but they walked back.
  5. Once they were at his place, Aziz got aggressive, making sexual innuendos and kissing her. "Grace" said she was uncomfortable and said they were going too fast. At no point was Aziz forcing himself upon her, making threats, or preventing "Grace" from leaving. Somehow, magically, despite her reservation, Aziz managed to get her naked and performed oral sex on her. Finally, she left before they actually had sexual intercourse.

"Grace" subsequently told her girlfriends that it was the "worst" night of her life. So here's what Aziz is guilty of: bad game and being too thirsty and misreading social cues. Aziz was a dork most of his life, and especially as an Asian man growing up in South Carolina, I'm sure it was rough for him socially. Now, he's rich and famous (he lives in the same Tribeca apartment building as Taylor Swift), and he's milking it for all that it's worth, and quite frankly, I don't blame him. "Grace" obviously wanted to date a celebrity, to become his girlfriend and was disappointed when it turned out that Aziz just wanted to fuck her. Uh yea, he's a straight man. "Grace," as an adult and an independent agent, had numerous chances to walk away. Yet, she chose to go home with him (did she think that they were gonna play Starcraft at his place?), and she chose to let him undress her and get to "third base."

Personal responsibility matters. Unfortunately, stories like this take away from actual victims of rape and assault and undermine the purpose of MeToo.

Comments (102)

1/15/18

It's gotten totally out of hand. I agree with your last two sentences especially, it's a total shame and disgrace to people who suffer/ suffered actual abuse and harrasment.

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1/15/18

This is why liberal women need to date conservative born-again Christian guys who won't do anything until they're married.

1/15/18

This assumes conservative born-again Christian guys aren't savages like the rest of us. I call bs on that assumption... even though I know this comment was sarcasm.

1/15/18
BobTheBaker:

This assumes conservative born-again Christian guys aren't savages like the rest of us. I call bs on that assumption... even though I know this comment was sarcasm.

I honestly don't know whether or not I'm being tongue-in-cheek. I did grow up evangelical, guys did manage to date and live this way, and I'd probably still be one if a God-approved marriage were something that would work for me.

To be honest, a surprising number of Christians are goody-goodies who walk the talk. They have something Aziz doesn't have: Jesus.

I don't know everything that happens but I would honestly be more surprised to hear that there was sex on the first date than to hear that they waited until marriage.

1/15/18

From the South, no many born-again Christians, was raised Christian. They're mostly just hypocrites so idk where you get this impression from. Ofc, a few of them are commited to their beliefs, but that is the minority. I don't understand why you're trying to frame them as the majority.

1/15/18
BobTheBaker:

From the South, no many born-again Christians, was raised Christian. They're mostly just hypocrites so idk where you get this impression from. Ofc, a few of them are commited to their beliefs, but that is the minority. I don't understand why you're trying to frame them as the majority.

Ok, perhaps half are total fakers. My guess is that the proportion is similar to the #MeToo guys.

1/16/18

Christians are great at hiding their hypocrisy from fellow Christians, especially ones that go to their Church.

1/16/18

As someone who did everything but until marriage as a "Christian", I can say with 90% certainty that most of the guys at my church dove right in if a girl gave them the chance. But they need never openly admitted it. My best friend didn't tell me he had slept with his girlfriend until after they got married lol. "Christians" are funny.

2/8/18

why is this the only religion people are allowed to openly mock and criticize and spread tons of propaganda based on anecdotes without any evidence?

1/16/18

lmao but totally makes sense actually

1/16/18
IlliniProgrammer:

This is why liberal women need to date conservative born-again Christian guys who won't do anything until they're married.

We've come full circle--new wave feminism has become the sexually prude "conservatives" that they despised in the 1960s. Feminists want men to behave as the Bible instructs men to behave--as gentlemen, waiting until marriage for sex, not straying with other women, and showing love and gentleness with their wives. While BobtheBaker believes this behavior is few and far between, I would say that that good behavior was the norm in the far-right conservative church I grew up in that still dominates Washington, D.C. today.

1/17/18

I was thinking the same thing. It is absurd! The far-left also now basically believes in bullying, ad hominems, doxxing as long as it is in response to a perceived injustice, even if that injustice is some form of bullying, ad hominem, doxxing. Down the rabbit hole we go...

Gimme the loot

1/15/18

Did she split the bill with Aziz? I would be curious.

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1/15/18
TNA:

Did she split the bill with Aziz? I would be curious.

I have a hard time believing that she split the bill. Lol.

1/15/18

He only got wrapped up in this becuase he is a pussy feminist bitch.

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1/15/18

Judging from his response, which basically throws a bone to the ridiculous media, I think he'll be fine. Def need that Master of None season 3. That show is flames.

1/15/18

Before looking at the evidence, I believed this because Aziz Ansari is a little weirdo and this seems like the kind of shit he'd do.

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Best Response
1/15/18

Where is the chase, and how do I cut to it? I've met Aziz a few times and have hung out with him and Alan Yang before. Aziz is probably confused and pissed off. It's not like he forced her to go out with him. It's not like he forced her back to his apartment. It's not like he forced her to get naked. And like the goofy little shit that he is, he didn't even get laid--he ate her out, then she left without reciprocating. If this happened in reverse, and she sucked his dick, then he threw her out of his place so he could go to sleep in peace, that would be fucked up.

Instead, she got excited about going out with a celebrity. It turns out, Aziz isn't Brad Pitt, so when things inevitably got physical (a virtual guarantee given the lead up to returning to his apartment), she got uncomfortable because she wasn't attracted to him. Instead of saying that and leaving or simply refusing to go back to his place right after dinner, she wanted to remain in the proximity of his celebrity, so she chose to stay. She left with buyer's remorse because hooking up with Aziz isn't quite the story she was hoping for. And because the #MeToo Movement conflates actual sexual misconduct with simply regretting a hookup, Aziz gets his name dragged through the mud. That's a bit ridiculous.

He apologized because he didn't mean to make her feel bad, but she needs to grow up a bit and take responsibility for herself. Aziz is the least threatening person in existence. My 4-year-old nephew with epilepsy could kick his ass during one of his fits. She wasn't there against her will. She made a series of choices. She should own that.

And Aziz should stop going out with dumb 23-year-old photographers. Obviously, he wanted to fuck her. Obviously, she was going to be a nightmare. Women like this harm the movement.

1/15/18

Couldn't have summed it up any better, it's a disgrace. I wish he would come out and call it for what it is but he can't, gotta appease the media and keep stacking your chips. It's like the whole Wahlberg pay bullshit, the chic Michelle Williams (who I had to google cuz I had no idea who she was) takes $1,000 for the reshoots in #metoo solidarity, which is fine, but then Wahlberg gets villified for charging his regular fee and the media runs with the story that he was paid 1500 times more than her, which is bullshit because she willingly took a significant pay cut. So of course Wahlberg, because he wants to keep stacking his chips, has to come out and say he's donating it all to the metoo movement. Just terrible. What's worse is that Mark SHOULD make more than this chic, I DIDN'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS.

1/15/18
BobTheBaker:

Couldn't have summed it up any better, it's a disgrace. I wish he would come out and call it for what it is but he can't, gotta appease the media and keep stacking your chips. It's like the whole Wahlberg pay bullshit, the chic Michelle Williams (who I had to google cuz I had no idea who she was) takes $1,000 for the reshoots in #metoo solidarity, which is fine, but then Wahlberg gets villified for charging his regular fee and the media runs with the story that he was paid 1500 times more than her, which is bullshit because she willingly took a significant pay cut. So of course Wahlberg, because he wants to keep stacking his chips, has to come out and say he's donating it all to the metoo movement. Just terrible. What's worse is that Mark SHOULD make more than this chic, I DIDN'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS.

This is an issue where we actually agree. Wahlberg was the highest paid actor of 2017, bringing him $68 million. Also, Williams' contract required her to do the re-shoot while Wahlberg's contract did not. Thus, he charged his going rate to do them while Williams did it for whatever they offered to pay. The SJWs have argued that the directors offered her so little because she is a woman, a sign of endemic sexism in the movie industry. But it's basic economics. If a contract requires her to do the re-shoot, why would you pay her more than the absolute minimum?

1/15/18

They actually offered more but she said NO! NO! I will take the minimum in solidarity with metoo. Just a ridiculous story that makes me understand so much of the "backlash" against liberals (although I still think people are morons for focusing on minutia like this and not policy).

1/15/18
brotherbear:

Where is the chase, and how do I cut to it? I've met Aziz a few times and have hung out with him and Alan Yang before. Aziz is probably confused and pissed off. It's not like he forced her to go out with him. It's not like he forced her back to his apartment. It's not like he forced her to get naked. And like the goofy little shit that he is, he didn't even get laid--he ate her out, then she left without reciprocating. If this happened in reverse, and she sucked his dick, then he threw her out of his place so he could go to sleep in peace, that would be fucked up.

Instead, she got excited about going out with a celebrity. It turns out, Aziz isn't Brad Pitt, so when things inevitably got physical (a virtual guarantee given the lead up to returning to his apartment), she got uncomfortable because she wasn't attracted to him. Instead of saying that and leaving or simply refusing to go back to his place right after dinner, she wanted to remain in the proximity of his celebrity, so she chose to stay. She left with buyer's remorse because hooking up with Aziz isn't quite the story she was hoping for. And because the #MeToo Movement conflates actual sexual misconduct with simply regretting a hookup, Aziz gets his name dragged through the mud. That's a bit ridiculous.

He apologized because he didn't mean to make her feel bad, but she needs to grow up a bit and take responsibility for herself. Aziz is the least threatening person in existence. My 4-year-old nephew with epilepsy could kick his ass during one of his fits. She wasn't there against her will. She made a series of choices. She should own that.

And Aziz should stop going out with dumb 23-year-old photographers. Obviously, he wanted to fuck her. Obviously, she was going to be a nightmare. Women like this harm the movement.

What was your impression of Aziz from the times you hung out with him? He seems like someone who is still socially awkward around attractive women despite his celebrity and money. My basic theory is that if you were not a ladies' man by the time you finish college, no amount of money and fame will transform you into a natural stud.

1/15/18

I mean--we just had a few drinks. I spent more time speaking with Alan because I think he's clever, and I like writers. I think your impression is right, though. Aziz isn't exactly a ladies man. I think you can learn to be better and more comfortable around women, but if you're not particularly successful in high school and college, you're probably going to struggle with awkwardness for most of your adult life.

To be clear, I think most men are at least a little awkward when trying to get laid. Have you ever watched/been forced to witness the horror show that is the modern dating scene? It's a joke. If you feel like you're trying too hard, you are. Closing requires a lack of desperation. At some point, though, you have to make some sort of move.

I suppose you could have a discussion about each other's level of sexual interest in the other, but I've only ever had that conversation right before I was about to get laid anyway as a means of teasing the other person. What would that sound like in a bar or a restaurant? "Umm...excuse me, Grace. I was wondering how you'd feel about me asking whether you'd like to blow me? Now, I'm not asking you to do so. That would be too forward, madam. I merely pose the hypothetical."

I view that conversation as painfully awkward. And if making a person feel awkward is all that's required for harassment these days, then I feel most encounters are subject to some level of this kind of awkwardness (especially if you make people have this chat beforehand).

2/18/18

"I suppose you could have a discussion about each other's level of sexual interest in the other, but I've only ever had that conversation right before I was about to get laid anyway as a means of teasing the other person. What would that sound like in a bar or a restaurant? "Umm...excuse me, Grace. I was wondering how you'd feel about me asking whether you'd like to blow me? Now, I'm not asking you to do so. That would be too forward, madam. I merely pose the hypothetical."

I view that conversation as painfully awkward. And if making a person feel awkward is all that's required for harassment these days, then I feel most encounters are subject to some level of this kind of awkwardness (especially if you make people have this chat beforehand)."

lol exactly. this feminist shit is way out of hand now. just making me that much more of a conservative tbh.

1/15/18
brotherbear:

Instead, she got excited about going out with a celebrity. It turns out, Aziz isn't Brad Pitt, so when things inevitably got physical (a virtual guarantee given the lead up to returning to his apartment), she got uncomfortable because she wasn't attracted to him. Instead of saying that and leaving or simply refusing to go back to his place right after dinner, she wanted to remain in the proximity of his celebrity, so she chose to stay. She left with buyer's remorse because hooking up with Aziz isn't quite the story she was hoping for.

I would analyze this situation a bit differently. I think she wanted to date Aziz Ansari, not just have a one night stand dressed up in the guise of a romantic dinner date. And when she finally realized that he was just looking for the hookup, she was massively disappointed. I think if she wasn't attracted to him she wouldn't have gone back to his place, given it's obvious what that would involve

As far as a guy's intentions go, going for a touchdown on date 1 speaks for itself

2/7/18

Yeah, most ladies I talk to that are with a date give me their number because they are looking long term lol

Going Concern:
brotherbear:

Instead, she got excited about going out with a celebrity. It turns out, Aziz isn't Brad Pitt, so when things inevitably got physical (a virtual guarantee given the lead up to returning to his apartment), she got uncomfortable because she wasn't attracted to him. Instead of saying that and leaving or simply refusing to go back to his place right after dinner, she wanted to remain in the proximity of his celebrity, so she chose to stay. She left with buyer's remorse because hooking up with Aziz isn't quite the story she was hoping for.

I would analyze this situation a bit differently. I think she wanted to date Aziz Ansari, not just have a one night stand dressed up in the guise of a romantic dinner date. And when she finally realized that he was just looking for the hookup, she was massively disappointed. I think if she wasn't attracted to him she wouldn't have gone back to his place, given it's obvious what that would involve

As far as a guy's intentions go, going for a touchdown on date 1 speaks for itself

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

1/15/18

Sounds like you're "victim shaming". Based on Aziz's latest specials he would not approve of such barbaric and bro-centric sexism. #MeToo

1/16/18

In this case, I am absolutely "victim" shaming. Well that is if she is the victim, in reality he is the victim in this instance.

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1/16/18

Well said. Our society prevents women from having to take any responsibility as they are treated as perpetual victims so this played out as expected.

1/16/18

I have to quibble sir. His ... performance ... did not go un - reciprocated. I believe she actually fellated him (once or twice).

Just wanted to add that little fact check. Feel free to proceed

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1/15/18

I would be fucking bewildered by this if I were Aziz. Like he took a chick back to his crib, she didn't wanna fuck so they didn't and she willingly sucked his dick then left. And that's now sexual assault.

Now I was curious what the reaction would be on Twitter to all of this so I read through many tweets. Reaction from the #metoo side is that she didn't consent fully and so he should've stopped aggressively pursuing. I agree that she didn't consent to sex. But there are three problems after we all agree she didn't consent:
1. They didn't have sex.
2. She absolutely consented to oral sex by willingly sucking him off.
3. 98% of girls will not be the pursuer in a sexual situation even if they want it. So men either can be the pursuer and potentially get denied OR not the be pursuer and potentially miss an opportunity. Now people are saying that option 1 makes you a sexual assaulter. So I guess the answer now is go for option 2 and turn women off by being a coward.

Overall 'Grace' was upset after the fact being he didn't get her engines revving enough. Having regret about a sexual encounter doesn't make it sexual assault on its own. Men can't take risks if that were the case.

1/15/18

I think this NYT op ed sums up the situation perfectly, ironically written by a woman. Echoes a lot of the thoughts in this thread

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opinion/aziz-an...

1/16/18

The comment section is the best part of that article. Talk about cringe.

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1/16/18
heister:

The comment section is the best part of that article. Talk about cringe.

I can't believe how many commenters are still taking the side of "Grace." It boggles the mind.

1/15/18

So I guess if a girl regrets having sex with you, she can now accuse you of sexual assault/rape. Wow.

2/7/18
Pizz:

So I guess if a girl regrets having sex with you, she can now accuse you of sexual assault/rape. Wow.

In that case, a lot of fatties raped me

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

1/15/18

Sure, it's all getting absurd at this point, but fuck Aziz.

He's the exact type of asshole who would publicly condemn some other guy in this exact clown-world situation, while smugly sniffing his own farts and looking for affirmation from his SJW following. His comedy also went to shit and his latest specials have basically been "stupid men, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid white bros, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid sexists, like just be a normal guy, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid racists, like luv 4 all, amirite? hahahaha". What a loser. He's still unbelievably insecure about himself as a man and it completely shows.

I love that he got his hypocritical hand bitten by his own pet sense of "justice", and I can't wait to hear who the next celebrity sacrifice will be.

1/15/18

So I guess if a girl regrets having sex with you, she can now accuse you of sexual assault/rape. Wow.

1/16/18

It has been this way on college campuses for years. Shit it doesn't even have to be immediately after, it can be months later.

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2/10/18
2/18/18
Pmc2ghy:

Sure, it's all getting absurd at this point, but fuck Aziz.

He's the exact type of asshole who would publicly condemn some other guy in this exact clown-world situation, while smugly sniffing his own farts and looking for affirmation from his SJW following. His comedy also went to shit and his latest specials have basically been "stupid men, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid white bros, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid sexists, like just be a normal guy, amirite? hahahaha", "stupid racists, like luv 4 all, amirite? hahahaha". What a loser. He's still unbelievably insecure about himself as a man and it completely shows.

I love that he got his hypocritical hand bitten by his own pet sense of "justice", and I can't wait to hear who the next celebrity sacrifice will be.

Exactly this. Fuck this SJW Aziz.

1/16/18

Seriously how can you assault someone when your dick is in their mouth? They have all the power in that situation.

I stopped reading once I got to that part. I could maybe buy a version of events where Aziz was overly aggressive and fingered this girl against her will and therefore is at fault. As soon as she started blowing him though, the whole thing is 100% consensual. He didn't make her do that and all she had to do if she didn't want to do it was keep her mouth shut.

I agree that he has brought this on himself to a certain extent. The only reason that babe published this is because he is such a champion of #MeToo and Master of None paints him as a lovelorn nice guy.

1/16/18

Agreed with the above, but I think it's even more obvious than that. If it wasn't consensual, this Grace person and this babe "publication" would have had zero hesitation in using the word rape in the title, description, captions, etc. Which of course is entirely absent, since the only crime that Aziz committed is foolishly assuming that a girl who's sitting naked on his kitchen counter and sucking his penor is looking to have secks

1/16/18

From what I read he just ate her out. No BJ for him.

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1/16/18
TNA:

From what I read he just ate her out. No BJ for him.

Multiple articles say she gave him a blowjob

1/16/18

Ah yes, the old fishing story. Now its just turned into rape. Get an awkward kiss? By the 10th person she tells the guy will be brutally raping her in the ass.

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1/16/18

she mentioned in the original article that she did blow him although "not for long" whatever that means.

1/16/18

From the original article:

Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. "I said I don't want to feel forced because then I'll hate you, and I'd rather not hate you," she said.

She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. "He said, 'Oh, of course, it's only fun if we're both having fun.' The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, 'Let's just chill over here on the couch.'"

This moment is particularly significant for Grace, because she thought that would be the end of the sexual encounter -- her remark about not wanting to feel "forced" had added a verbal component to the cues she was trying to give him about her discomfort. When she sat down on the floor next to Ansari, who sat on the couch, she thought he might rub her back, or play with her hair -- something to calm her down.

Ansari instructed her to turn around. "He sat back and pointed to his penis and motioned for me to go down on him. And I did. I think I just felt really pressured. It was literally the most unexpected thing I thought would happen at that moment because I told him I was uncomfortable."

Soon, he pulled her back up onto the couch. She would tell her friend via text later that night, "He [made out] with me again and says, 'Doesn't look like you hate me.'"

Halfway into the encounter, he led her from the couch to a different part of his apartment. He said he had to show her something. Then he brought her to a large mirror, bent her over and asked her again, "Where do you want me to fuck you? Do you want me to fuck you right here?" He rammed his penis against her ass while he said it, pantomiming intercourse.

"I just remember looking in the mirror and seeing him behind me. He was very much caught up in the moment and I obviously very much wasn't," Grace said. "After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don't think I'm ready to do this, I really don't think I'm going to do this. And he said, 'How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?'"

They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they'd already "chilled" on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld. She'd never seen it before. She said that's when the reality of what was going on sank in. "It really hit me that I was violated. I felt really emotional all at once when we sat down there. That that whole experience was actually horrible."

While the TV played in the background, he kissed her again, stuck his fingers down her throat again, and moved to undo her pants.

Can someone explain to me why this isn't assault?

1/16/18

Feeling pressured to have sex, then doing so (in this case oral), is not sexual assault. I don't know how much simpler I can make this.

After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don't think I'm ready to do this, I really don't think I'm going to do this. And he said, 'How about we just chill, but this time with our clothes on?'"

She rejected him and he immediately obliged, thus he never, at any point, forced her to do anything.

At this point she could've chosen to leave but instead she goes back to the couch to sit with him. Then, of course, being a guy, he pushes the issue again. She had multiple opportunities to forcefully reject him and end the night but she didn't. This has gotten outrageous, aggresive sexual behavior, like that of Ansari's, is now considered assault. Then you post the account as if a rational individual is supposed to read it and come away with that conclusion. Holy hell. You would do well to read that op-ed @Going Concern posted. This type of attitude is setting women back, not empowering them.

1/16/18

I've read the op-ed. It is flawed. You should read psychological research behind how victims of sexual assault respond in the moment. Many report freezing, feeling unable to move or leave. Many relent to the coercion and go through the motions as they do not want to risk making the encounter more violent or forced. Easier to give in and do something you don't really want to do than it is to forcefully reject and risk making the situation worse.

1/16/18

Dude, there is no indication Ansari hinted at violence nor does she indicate she felt threatened at any point, just "pressured". Those are not the same thing. Honestly, I think it is disgraceful to actual victims that we are seriously having this debate. At this point we are saying unless the woman jumps on you and begs for it then anything short is sexual assault. Unbelievable stuff.

1/16/18

At no point did she seem to indicate that she enjoyed Ansari's aggressive and forceful behavior. At more than one point, she indicated that his aggressiveness was not welcome yet he continued to behave in the same manner. This likely made her feel unsafe and at risk if she were to more forcefully reject.

1/16/18

Pretty sure at the point she started blowing him he thought full sails ahead, as any guy would. She stopped him after the whole mirror thing and chose to chill in the apt afterwards. I mean come on bro. She felt so threatened that instead of leaving after stopping him she went to watch Seinfeld with the dude. At what point are we going to regard women as individuals capable of making rational decisions? Are you going to now argue that she was suffering from Stockholm's Syndrome? You are asking me to suspend all rationality and I just won't.

1/16/18
BobTheBaker:

Pretty sure at the point she started blowing him he thought full sails ahead, as any guy would. She stopped him after the whole mirror thing and chose to chill in the apt afterwards. I mean come on bro. She felt so threatened that instead of leaving after stopping him she went to watch Seinfeld with the dude. At what point are we going to regard women as individuals capable of making rational decisions? Are you going to now argue that she was suffering from Stockholm's Syndrome? You are asking me to suspend all rationality and I just won't.

Bro, you're KILLING it in this thread. At least we agree on something. Haha.

1/16/18
BobTheBaker:

Pretty sure at the point she started blowing him he thought full sails ahead, as any guy would. She stopped him after the whole mirror thing and chose to chill in the apt afterwards. I mean come on bro. She felt so threatened that instead of leaving after stopping him she went to watch Seinfeld with the dude. At what point are we going to regard women as individuals capable of making rational decisions? Are you going to now argue that she was suffering from Stockholm's Syndrome? You are asking me to suspend all rationality and I just won't.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sexual-...
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/aogs.13...

1/16/18

"However, studies have indicated that similar to animals, humans exposed to extreme threat may react with a state of involuntary, temporary motor inhibition known as tonic immobility"

1.) No threat involved here
2.) She was not immobile, she actively blew him, actively walked to the mirror, actively rejected him, then actively went back to the couch with him

I'm done responding. You're attempting to frame this dude as a rapist and, as a result, lower the standard for sexual assault dramatically. I don't disagree with you on much but this is ridiculous. I sincerely hope that this isn't where we are in society with regards to a woman's capacity to make decisions.

1/16/18

1) Aziz's continual aggressive behavior despite verbal expressions of discomfort could be perceived as threatening.
2) Immobility does not necessarily mean simply freezing in place or playing dead. Humans are more complex than that. It can also mean simply following the instructions/commands of the perceived threat even if it is not something she wants to be doing.

Regardless of whether or not this situation meets the legal definition of sexual assault (I'm not sure it does), this girl still felt assaulted/violated and I think that matters. These types of situations where women are coerced into performing sexual acts that they do not want to perform but consent to it because it is just easier to to get it over with than to say no is a problem. This is what I am trying to emphasize. Not trying to specifically define this as a sexual assault or rape that meets some legal definition. Rather, I was hoping to gather some amount of empathy for this girl who felt violated and performed sexual acts that she didn't really want to perform even if she technically consented to them.

Is it not at all important that so many women report performing sexual acts that they don't want to perform? Is all that is important in a sexual encounter whether or not the girl is visibly crying or kicking or screaming during a sexual encounter? Aziz's attitude here seemed to be that he did not really care whether or not Grace enjoyed the encounter. So long as she wasn't crying or verbally saying no or whatever, he didn't care based upon Grace's account of what happened.

1/16/18
DeepLearning:

These types of situations where women are coerced into performing sexual acts that they do not want to perform but consent to it because it is just easier to to get it over with than to say no is a problem.

Corece: persuade (an unwilling person) to do something by using force or threats

In this entire account, where, specifically, did you see the coercion? This is an absolutely key question that needs to be answered.

1/16/18
DeepLearning:

Regardless of whether or not this situation meets the legal definition of sexual assault (I'm not sure it does), this girl still felt assaulted/violated and I think that matters. These types of situations where women are coerced into performing sexual acts that they do not want to perform but consent to it because it is just easier to to get it over with than to say no is a problem. This is what I am trying to emphasize. Not trying to specifically define this as a sexual assault or rape that meets some legal definition. Rather, I was hoping to gather some amount of empathy for this girl who felt violated and performed sexual acts that she didn't really want to perform even if she technically consented to them.

This Grace person is a grown adult, an independent rational agent capable of making her own decisions. She was on a date, and received a post-dinner late night invitation to her date's apartment, which clearly signals sexual activity based upon widely accepted and understood modern social conventions by males and females alike. She willingly accepted this invitation. Let me repeat that - she willingly accepted this invitation

It is therefore of no surprise that within a short time she took off her clothes and got naked. From the entire night's events, it is clear she sent mixed signals, verbally expressed reservation at having penetrative sex but still stayed (causing confusion), performed oral sex, and remained naked, none of which was forced. She later had buyer's remorse. That is not descriptive of sexual assault, and characterizing it as such diminishes the women who have actually been assaulted. Using scientific research to further bolster the claim that she is a helpless victim (as opposed to a confused individual with poor judgement) is honestly an affront to the female community and women's empowerment at large

Furthermore, the fact that she is using the description of this night to publicly slander Aziz Ansari and attempt to ruin his career is quite frankly dis-grace-ful

1/16/18

Just do yourself a favor and download an app that both parties have to sign and it creates a legal contract of consent.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

1/16/18
DeepLearning:

I've read the op-ed. It is flawed. You should read psychological research behind how victims of sexual assault respond in the moment. Many report freezing, feeling unable to move or leave. Many relent to the coercion and go through the motions as they do not want to risk making the encounter more violent or forced. Easier to give in and do something you don't really want to do than it is to forcefully reject and risk making the situation worse.

Are you serious? Ansari is like, 5'7", 140 lbs and was not being physically intimidating, by the accuser's own account.

1/16/18

Shouldn't even matter what size he is. Dude was aggressive but non-threatening and at each point she rejected him he didn't attempt to force it. Sure he kept going in for more in hopes she'd change her mind, but who's to blame him for hoping that? She already did once when she sucked him off.

1/17/18

I'll explain to you why this isn't assault in fact I'll give you ten reasons just from the excerpt you added.
1. She went to his house willingly not once but twice!
2. She got naked. Mind you he did not tear her clothes. She said he took it off but there is no way someone can take your clothes off without your cooperation without tearing them. You go to the bathroom naked, come out naked, no mention of a robe or a towel wrapped around while frantically searching for your clothes? nooo instead? She wanted a backrub!
3. Why did she go seat naked with a man on a couch and say she gave none verbal signs that she didn't want to have sex? His apartment is not a topless beach in France!
4. What the fuck was her hoping he would rub her back or pet her hair to make her feel better? Is she his 8 months pregnant wife? I mean seriously WTF???
5. He instructed you to go down on him and you did? Really??? Like he pulled out his gun or something?
6. He led her to a different part of the apartment? And she followed at no point was she kicking or screaming or saying no.
7. When she finally said no thats when they got dressed no pressure from the dude he let her get dressed.
8. At this time can you tell me what the fuck she was doing going back to the couch with him to watch Seinfeld? for 9.99 she can binge watch that shit from any multitude of devices AWAY from his apartment.
9. HE WAS THE ONE WHO SUGGESTED THEY CHILL WITH THEIR CLOTHES ON!!! She didn't even offer to cover her ass and titties up!
10. When she said she wanted to leave he got her an Uber and she left. He even paid for the ride!
My analysis? She had a bad date, didn't like it, hoped he would be her forever love, dude just wanted to get laid. She had a date came on to him exchanged flirty texts with him. It's high time women are allowed to fight their battles like the men they demand to be treated as. You cannot claim to be powerful and assertive and demand to be treated equal, then at the first sign of troubled waters turn around and claim to be victimized and say shit like "I was frozen, terrified, petrified, could not think/act/leave." A swift kick to the balls will drop any man to his knees. If you want to seat at the big people table and play the big people games, then you goddamn put on your big people pants!
Just my 0.005 cents.

If you ain't talking money I can't hear you, your volume is somehow low.

1/17/18

Spot on. This is coming dangerously close to justifying a MeToo movement for guys. The absurdity is real

1/17/18
1/16/18

I didn't read this stuff and really don't care, also his show sucks and he isn't funny.

I am wondering if any extremely handsome or good looking man has been caught up in the #MeToo stuff or if it is just ugly dorks and creepy male feminists?

1/16/18

Master of None is outstanding

1/18/18

Master of None is the worst show I have ever seen in my life

You are back on the be mean to list Bob Baker!

1/17/18

The handsome good looking men are on their permitted lists lol.

If you ain't talking money I can't hear you, your volume is somehow low.

1/17/18

The handsome good looking men are on their permitted lists lol.

If you ain't talking money I can't hear you, your volume is somehow low.

1/16/18

I despise this guy and his comedy style, and his behavior was extremely poor on the night in question (assuming it happened the way it's alleged), but he's definitely not guilty of sexual assault, even based on the one-sided story.

1/16/18

I am curious as to why you despise Aziz Ansari the person.

1/16/18
ACP7:

I am curious as to why you despise Aziz Ansari the person.

I abhor his comedic style and I abhor his SJW bullsh*t. If I want to get preached at I'll go to church. I can't stand the politicization of EVERYTHING.

1/16/18

Surely you must understand that there is a difference between Aziz the performer and Aziz the person. That's the same as me disliking Nicholas Cage personally because I don't like his acting.

As for his social intervention, again, don't really understand your position. Okay, you don't like the fact that he uses his public voice to push his agenda, but it's a bit worrying that you could hate a person simply because they voice an opinion (especially when it's one of equality and respect, as far as I'm aware). Also, I doubt you feel the same way about people who use their platforms to push agendas similar to yours, but that's a different point.

So yeah, still baffles me how you could despise Aziz the person.

1/16/18
ACP7:

Surely you must understand that there is a difference between Aziz the performer and Aziz the person. That's the same as me disliking Nicholas Cage personally because I don't like his acting.

As for his social intervention, again, don't really understand your position. Okay, you don't like the fact that he uses his public voice to push his agenda, but it's a bit worrying that you could hate a person simply because they voice an opinion (especially when it's one of equality and respect, as far as I'm aware). Also, I doubt you feel the same way about people who use their platforms to push agendas similar to yours, but that's a different point.

So yeah, still baffles me how you could despise Aziz the person.

Jesus, what an insufferable jackass you are. What you're really saying is that it baffles you that someone disagrees with you about Ansari, especially because you can't imagine someone disagreeing with his message.

Let me repeat this--I personally despise people who politicize everything, from sports to comedy. I despise them for ruining what should otherwise be an escape from the real world. And if you don't like my opinion, ACP7, then you can go fuck yourself.

1/16/18

Wtf did I just read. Yes, it's very clear that I'm the "insufferable jackass" of the two of us. Well done, buddy.

I'm in a deep conflict: on one hand, it's clearly impossible to have a logical, coherent discussion with you; on the other, I'm amused by your posts and would like to learn more from you, so I'll try again and maybe you'll indulge me one last time.

No, it doesn't baffle me that you don't like Aziz Ansari, his political opinion or his comedy (if it helps, I think he's a very talented creative / writing mind, but an average actor at best and I don't particularly like his comedic style). Let me repeat something too - what's baffling is that you despise someone for producing content that is based on a message that happens to be different than yours but does not call for disrespect, inequality, injustice, discrimination, etc. That's what is stupid.

And for future reference, a comedian(any comedian) making a joke about a political matter is not politicizing comedy, but rather satirizing politics. A very big difference.

1/16/18

No, comedians making joke about politics is satire. Making your jokes political is not satire, there is a marked difference.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

1/16/18
ACP7:

Let me repeat something too - what's baffling is that you despise someone for producing content that is based on a message that happens to be different than yours but does not call for disrespect, inequality, injustice, discrimination, etc. That's what is stupid.

You literally just changed my words. I was very specific as to why I despise the guy and you literally just changed the words to interpret it the way you want to hear it.

You're an insufferable jackass because I have a strong personal opinion about someone and you continue to come back at me as if my opinion about a very hypocrital and insufferable celebrity is, like, factually or morally wrong.

1/16/18

I did not change them at all: you mentioned politicizing, so I merely inferred you meant that he turns his entertainment platform into a political one, meaning he produces content that does not appeal to you. Otherwise, I don't think him expressing his personal views on any subject, outside of his work product, can be classified as "politicizing".

Anyway, good talking to you, as always. Oh and I like the whole "fuck those liberal snowflakes" and then at the first glance of a different, non-offensive opinion, "jackass, if you don't agree with me you can go fuck yourself. Thick skin there, brother.

1/16/18

I did not change them at all: you mentioned politicizing, so I merely inferred you meant that he turns his entertainment platform into a political one, meaning that he produces content that does not appeal to you. Otherwise, I don't think him expressing his personal views on any subject, outside of his work product, can be classified as "politicizing".

Anyway, good talking to you, as always. Oh and I like the whole "fuck those liberal snowflakes" and then at the first glance of a different, non-offensive opinion, "jackass, if you don't agree with me you can go fuck yourself. Thick skin there, brother.

2/18/18
ACP7:

I did not change them at all: you mentioned politicizing, so I merely inferred you meant that he turns his entertainment platform into a political one, meaning that he produces content that does not appeal to you. Otherwise, I don't think him expressing his personal views on any subject, outside of his work product, can be classified as "politicizing".

Anyway, good talking to you, as always. Oh and I like the whole "fuck those liberal snowflakes" and then at the first glance of a different, non-offensive opinion, "jackass, if you don't agree with me you can go fuck yourself. Thick skin there, brother.

Let me explain why I despise Aziz. If this happened to any other guy, Aziz would have been on the blame the guy bandwagon. Plain and simple as that. I'm glad it happened to a SJW.

1/16/18

How do I despise him? He is a douchebag, that is how.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

1/16/18

Does every sexual encounter now need to be documented and analyzed in the court of public opinion?

1/16/18

So literal rape is just another pedestrian sexual encounter to you now? Nice to know, rape-face.

1/16/18

So in your book anything shy of forced anal penetration is not sexual assault? And we should allow men to force themselves

1/16/18

So in your book anything shy of forced anal penetration is not sexual assault? And we should allow men to force themselves

1/16/18

So in your book anything shy of forced anal penetration is not sexual assault? And we should allow men to force themselves

1/16/18

Men are so used to abusing their power in society that some piece of garbage can get called out for literal rape and it makes men consider themselves the "victim" because they can't get away with rape. Me are trash.

1/16/18

I liked Master of None at first but then he spoke French for 3 episodes and I'm like what the fuck fuck this little tree elf looking fag

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

1/16/18

This #MeToo trend is going too far. Notice its almost always(not in this case the OP mentioned) white men being accused. Coincidence? Who knows. What we do know is that men can lose their entire career and therefore livelihood just based on an accusation, no proof or due process necessary. Soon, just looking at a woman or saying something flirty will be "sexual harassment"- oh wait- it already is. What a fucked up state of affairs we have with gender relations in this country and the media and corporations are simply vehicles for perpetuating this agenda of #MeToo as a part of feminism's androgyny agenda and leftist cultural marxism. Well, I guess it's time to grab a plane ticket to Thailand, Philippines or Colombia while the gettin is still good...

1/16/18

This #metoo thing is becoming a cool kids club

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

1/16/18

Love it.

These liberal idealogical movements all inevitably turn into a competition of who's the biggest victim and entirely cannabilize themselves.

Advice to the young bucks, always make sure you have a plan in case the girl feels regret the next day. I always used to send a playful text while in the cab back to my place or whatever, usually "Hey what're you up to?" And they respond about being on the way to the smash-pit with an IBD stud. Just so it's in writing and she knows it squashed.

1/17/18

I remember reading this article last year and went searching for it. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/nov/...
This is the problem with the #metoo movement. Weak Women now want to punish men for all their bad decisions on dating and it's just wrong!
Notice I said weak women and not all women. Because I believe that a strong woman knows when she's messed up, she tells herself never again and moves on. She doesn't get vindictive and ruin another human simply because she can.

If you ain't talking money I can't hear you, your volume is somehow low.

1/17/18

Metoo = the war on ugly betas

Who remembers when Ben Affleck tweaked the journalist's jugs? Who remembers that absolutely nothing became of it? I sure do

1/17/18

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/13/16465216/be...
Actually Affleck has had some allegations aimed at him by the metoo movement, he had to apologize. Terrible example.

1/17/18

a soulless fabricated apology and getting black listed from the entertainment industry are two different things

1/17/18

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1/17/18
1/18/18

"A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself."