is it true that BB PWM >> no-name IBD/HF/other FO role for SA recruiting?
I keep hearing conflicting views about BB PWM internships.... is it true that BB PWM on resume >> no-name HF/IBD/other front office role?? (for SA recruiting)...
i had the chance to do BB PWM in soph year too, but I turned it down to work at a no-name HF (albeit $2B+ AUM) because the work I did there and what I learnt were way more meaningful than what I would have learnt in BB PWM...I did this because some upperclassmen said BB PWM is not respected, and everyone knows its BS, but on the other hand, i hear that all that matters is the brand name of the BB, eventhough all u did is get coffee and cold call....and every time i heard this i feel that I made a mistake not doing PWM
I feel like it does help to have a BB pwm internship. That's probably the route a lot of people take. But if you have legit stuff about your HF with decent GPA etc and good networking, you'll get noticed no prob.
I was faced with the same dilemma and ended up going the no-name IB route...so glad i did, def learned 100x more than I could've at the BB pwm where i even had a ft position lined up. BB name is just an eye catcher, it's what you actually do at your internship/job that actually matters.
^ are you talkign about junior summer BB PWM? (considering you had FT offer)....i'm talking about the value of BB PWM PRIOR to junior summer, vs no-name IBD/S&T/HF internships....if everyone knows PWM is bullshit, why does it carry any weight at all...
To answer your question...
It pulls weight in 2 cases. Here you go:
PWM carries weight for non-IB front office jobs (BB S&T, PWM, etc.) or intra-firm (same firm sophomore and junior summers). Otherwise, it doesn't.
For example, if you do Morgan Stanley PWM sophomore summer in order to get GS IB Junior summer, it won't help you at all. A wasted summer - you should've done what you did, get no-name IB experience. You made the smart move. If you do MS PWM for GS S&T, that could work. I've had friends successfully pull that off.
However if you do Goldman PWM to get Goldman IB the next year, that's a smart move. You can network within the company easily, you know people, and the people you'll network with will know people too, and they might be able to pull some weight when intern-recruiting and later offer season comes around. I have one friend who's working there now because of this.
Shit I wonder if this happens often... thanks for the post though. It's interesting to hear that PWM could lead to S&T
Sorry to hijack, though this is related to the PWM>S&T idea.
For S&T (specifically T), would BB PWM be better, or trading at a HF/anything FO of a quantitative nature (quant developer/programmer, actuary, maybe engineering, etc.)? Also, how would boutique IB compare to the HF/quant FO stuff?
I'm guessing PWM is great for getting into S, but only useful for T if you network/leverage contacts intra-firm. Trading at a HF should be the best experience, though the HF name/size probably matters too. I'm guessing if the trading experience has enough modeling, it would be better than boutique IB. However, I'm not sure whether boutique IB would be better or FO quant. I'm wondering specifically for an actuarial internship, since I did one at a large life insurer this summer as a rising soph. Would my actuarial internship carry any weight given its mathematical nature, or none because it's not finance? (Is the latter still a problem if I demonstrate interest by being a finance major+part of finance clubs?) I'm also trying to find a school-year internship, and am aiming for either a small quant HF, a small non-quant HF, boutique IB (if I can even get it), or possibly even PWM (if it would be useful). How do these compare?
(So my path would be as follows, where ? can be filled in with anything, and BB S&T junior summer is the goal. This is also complicated by the fact that I'm a Canadian on F-1 and have limited OPT hours for paid employment, which I would probably only use for summers) (1st year summer actuarial->2 fall/spring ?->2 summer ?->(resume for 3 summer recruiting handed in)->3 fall/spring?-> [[[3 BB S&T]]] goal)
What about for non-FO quantitative jobs (probably MO risk, I'm guessing BO IT won't be much help)?
i think it depends on what you are doing at either, and the people you are likely to meet while working there. what you are basically asking is "is name brand better than work experience"
at the end of the day, do you want to be working for someone who values the name of a firm that an individual worked for more than the experience that that person had at the firm?
How good of a stepping stone is a BB PWM internship? (Originally Posted: 03/27/2007)
I understand that private wealth management is not very closely related to Investment Banking and the skills you learn in private wealth management are not all that useful in banking.
Why then do people consistently use it as a successful stepping stone to land themselves positions in IBD after junior year and then for full time as analysts.
Will having Private Wealth Management really put you that much ahead of the pack when your going for junior year internships at the BBs for IBD?
Depends... if you're working at a regional branch doing PWM, it might not be that great, but if you get in a top PWM Group in a central office, you're superiors are bound to know some bankers. If you impress them enough, they should be willing to go to bat to keep you at the firm. Keeping that in mind, I was the top intern in a BB financial services group (non private wealth) and my bosses were unable to get me a spot in the banking class. This could be due to the fact that they did not start making calls for me until recruiting was completed, or because I turned down an offer for their group. Nevertheless, if you don't have many choices, take a PWM internship. Make the most of your time, and leverage the firm and experience to get into banking the following summer.
how easy is it within one of the larger banks to transfer from a summer in PWM to another division?
it can be easy but it seems like its all about networking. Do well, get your bosses to like you, and you got a shot.
BB PWM internship for moving to IBD (Originally Posted: 01/26/2010)
I'm a sophomore and I might have the chance to do a PWM internship at a mid to low tier BB this semester; I'd like to find out if it's worth my time.
I already have a pretty busy schedule, and it's about 15hrs a week + travel so maybe 20 hrs. Given that I haven't had an internship or a recognizable name on my resume, how much would this help me in paving my way towards IBD?
I'm told I have a decent resume for a sophomore, but no internships whatsoever. The internship would consist mostly of BS work, and I'm not really counting on learning a lot - I guess it's mostly about having BB PWM on my resume. I don't have anything lined up for summer yet.
Appreciate the insights.
i actually did that exact same thing. the summer after sophomore year, interned at merrill lynch PWM (before it was acquired by BofA). next summer came (last year) and because of the shitty economy, couldnt land an IBD internship (got a great one regardless at a major corporation). then used those experiences to land a full time job in banking. firms arent necessarily looking for IBD experiences (tho that is nice); theyre looking for any valuable experience you can talk about and relate the skillset over to banking. PWM sophomore year is a good way to not only show interest in the financial markets, but it gives you something to talk about in interviews. not to mention, it can greatly broaden your network (for example, while i was at merrill i occasionally met with fund wholesellers, some of whom ASKED for me to send then my resume.. great connections!).
i guess in conclusion, for a sophomore year internship, this is definitely a good thing to have.
Yeah, I second that. It might not be ideal, but you are absolutely going to want to have some solid internship experience. Look at it as a chance to network and meet people within a firm that you might be interested in working, albeit in a different function (ideally).
BB PWM Internship Question -- Please Help! (Originally Posted: 08/23/2010)
I am currently a rising junior at a "target" school looking to land an internship for next summer at a BB in either I-Banking or Sales & Trading. Since I'm not majoring in either Econ or Finance I'm trying to demonstrate my interest in finance early to get my foot in the door. I'm now finishing the last few weeks of my internship at a BB in PWM but looking back I realize that I didn't do much meaningful work that I could really talk about in an interview. For the most part the work was mostly BS stuff (Cold Calling/Administrative Stuff) so I took the initiative to try to learn some financial concepts on my own which has been helpful but not enough. What can I do with the rest of my time there that would not only be helpful for me personally but also be something I could talk about in interviews for 2011 Summer Recruiting? What have people in similar situations done to improve their resumes, knowledge and prospects for future offers?
I was in your same situation my sophmore summer.
Honestly, just the name of the BB that you're currently working at will help you get your foot in the door for next summer's recruiting. Any work you can do using Excel would be helpful - the more you know the better you will look next summer when you're on the job. I also made sure I networked well at the BB I was currently working for. Those networking contacts will help you get a job at the current BB next summer. Even if you don't want the job at the same BB next summer, you will be better able to get it, and use it to help you should your target firm be on the fence come offer time.
Basically, network as best you can and try to pick up the skills of the trade (excel and modeling, although if you're aiming for S&T, modeling is not essential). Pick a target firm or two for next year, and make contacts/network with their executives/analysts/whoever. The earlier you start, the better.
Yeah that's the impression I get that just the name of the BB will help me out but I'm just looking for something substantial to talk about come interview time. I read somewhere that people in similar situations sometimes construct a DCF model to add to their resumes cause it isn't that difficult.
i hear that all that matters is the brand name of the BB, eventhough all u did is get coffee and cold call...so apparently that mean BB PWM on resume >> no-name HF/IBD/other front office role (for SA recruiting)...
Who the hell cold calls during a PWM internship? If you show in the first few days you're reliable, they'll give you some decent projects.
Any other input at all? I'm just looking for ONE thing to focus on for the remainder of my time that would be impressive/helpful come recruiting season
BB PWM Internship - ANYONE please (Originally Posted: 05/29/2009)
I'm a rising sophomore that is starting a PWM internship at a BB (ML). First, if anyone has done one of these or has heard of it, what can I expect going into it? What kind of work will i be given?
Second, I hope to leverage this PWM internship to get a ibanking internship for the summer after my sophomore year. I'm getting pretty irritated reading posts on this forum that state PWM internships add absolutely no value at all when trying to get banking internships? Is this true? Would the internship even be worth the time and effort then? Has anyone on here leveraged their pwm internship to get into banking?
Check your private message inbox. Im in the same boat
you are a sophomore. any relevant internship is good, especially at a BB. relax, learn a lot, and network network network for next yr.
as a sophomore it should help
People do seem to bash PWM internships pretty hard but everyone here is also overly critical in general. My PWM experience was a good one and I was able to leverage it to S&T. The internship is definitely worth the time if its all you have.
PWM is good because of the access to senior people you'll get.
Be sure to learn about other roles in the bank and to connect with your school alums - that way when next year comes around you can reconnect with them for front office roles in IBD or S&T, what have you.
Good luck
Breaking Bankers http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot.com/
does anyone know ML's drug testing policy for PWM local branches? There has been no mention of it yet and I start in a week or so
No, you don't get drug tested if you work for ML's local PWM branch.
No drug test
so get as high as you like this week
i think HR's drug policy changes from year to year so i would still be careful. who knows if they decide to test this year when they have not in the past...
PWM, even within the BBs vary widely. My family is a client with a number of the different formerly elite firms, so I can give a decent explanation of what I have seen. Some offices are very much connected to the home base(may be located in or nearby an actual IB office), they tend to deal with bank employees' money. i.e. they will handle accounts of associates, VPs, MDs. Depending on the bank and department, you will need to have your PA through the bank's brokerage for monitoring purposes. When I was working at Bear and Scotia, that was the case, not so at my current employer. Depending on the account holder's knowledge, the FA will function as anything from a trade executor to a full service adviser encompassing asset allocation, fund recommendations, etc. These also serve to help place employees in internal funds (bank-owned HF and PE). These offices will also deal with select other client, usually HNW and UHNW. Then there are what is called a "regional office" on this site. This is not necessarily in the middle of nowhere, plenty exist in NYC especially for MER, UBS, and Smith Barney. These really range from legit full service offices that cater to the HNW and UHNW including financial planning. They use legit asset allocation techniques and financial analyses to help their clients achieve superior returns. The experience one can gain at one of these offices is legit, and many former bankers and traders end up in these types of positions. A third type of office serves the middle class. These offices are in the suburbs, retail bank branches, etc. They also use the MER, UBS, and Smith Barney name, but they tend to use less sophisticated techniques, because there is less upside to doing well for the client (other than keeping the client to churn the account). These offices are really a volume business as they make money mostly on commissions, and they tend to hire lots of interns and other unqualified people to cold call mom and pop to sell a specific mutual fund, or to try to setup an initial meeting. There is little to actually be learned in this type of an office which is relevant to "high finance", and it is unlikely you will make any connections to further that goal. However, if you are a freshman or sophomore, you will impress your friends (whatever that's worth), and it will show initiative that you were at least thinking about finance while your friends were not. To conclude, not all BB offices are created equally. Some shit on all PWM, those people don't know what they're talking about. The real PWM offices are extremely profitable and lucrative to the lead advisers there.
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