BB PWM or Boutique IBD?

Hey all,

I'm trying to finalize my plans for this summer. Just a little background, I'm a first year student (non-target) that is heavily leaning towards banking. I just wanted to ask how much value would a gig at a BB PWM (GS, JPM, MS type) provide over a boutique IBD shop (FIG focused boutique). I realize that BB names carry a lot of weight and could open up opportunities to network inside the firm. However, PWM seems to be a common and almost over-used path to banking. Would a boutique be better/offer more value in this case?

 

Since you're a first-year student and you have three summers free to do internships/study abroad, I would do the PWM this summer. At the least, it will give you exposure to another type of financial services. When you do end up as a SA for an ibank, you will have something to compare the experience to and know whether banking is right for you.

Just my two cents.

 

When you say BB PWM are you talking about an internship at a MS FA branch office?

If you're interested in banking then absolutely take the IB gig. There are tons of kids going into their soph/junior year with PWM experience, but only a minority who have banking experience. It'll absolutely make you stand out.

 

I'd do the banking route. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've seen, PWM offers little to no ability to network with real bankers in IBD and in fact most people look down on PWM. With the boutique IBD role, you'll have better experience and opportunity to land a BB internship the next year. That said, I think that TheDiscountRate makes a very good point that a PWM role will get you exposure to something else which is good. IBanking isn't for everyone so having a different perspective is valuable.

I'd still go with the boutique IBD role (I'm also assuming this is something like Moelis, Lazard, PJS, etc)

 

if top BB, id say take PWM, network there as it will be hard to get a summer anyway, but you will at least have better contacts and proven worth (well in a way) top brand such as GS will open bunch of doors and PWM is not bad job either

kill the internship of course

p.s. i am assuming that the boutique is a no-name

 

@jkim3381 I understood you to mean that you were weighing a top BB PWM internship versus a boutique IB shop. No disrespect to anyone working at a boutique, but it seems to me that bulge bracket banks really perk up when they see another BB name on a resume.

This guy/girl has two more shots at getting a summer internship in IBD... If it's not an elite boutique I really would go with the variety and name.

It would help if you mentioned what cities the internships are in, and the stature of the boutique. If the PWM is in a financial city, there is no excuse to not use it as a 10-week networking opportunity with every bank that has an office there. Also, what kind of "non-target" are you at? There's a difference between UNC and UIU, and this would impact how hardline your push for a 1st-year ibd internship should be.

 

You didn't mention the locations of the jobs, but.. A PWM internship isn't easy to get. Especially at a top bank.

I just think you are going to get sick of banking before you ever start full-time.

@Khayembii made a good point about PE, but... coming from a non-target, it's my opinion that even with IB internships on your resume (unless they're EB or BB) it will be a hard sell.

What kind of non-target are we talking about here..?

 

I also want add something else. Would a banking summer gig look unusual for a freshman? I feel like going to PWM as a freshman would look more natural (albeit overdone). On the same note, I feel like I would be able to tell a story about how I progressed towards banking better with a PWM role compared to jumping right into banking. Anybody want to chime in on the "story" part of these internships? From what I know, getting that "story" perfect is pretty important for the interviews.

 
jkim3381:

I also want add something else. Would a banking summer gig look unusual for a freshman? I feel like going to PWM as a freshman would look more natural (albeit overdone). On the same note, I feel like I would be able to tell a story about how I progressed towards banking better with a PWM role compared to jumping right into banking. Anybody want to chime in on the "story" part of these internships? From what I know, getting that "story" perfect is pretty important for the interviews.

Why would you think having some kind of story about transitioning into banking is better than just going straight into it, if that's what you want to do?

Deal experience is what matters the most if you want to go into banking, and you're not going to get that in PWM. If you think you'll be able to work a deal at this bank, then do it. Next summer you'll be competing with summer internships at BB's with people who worked in BB PWM and had absolutely no deal experience. You'll stick out, in a good way. Also, it can help you jump over to PE sooner, though not at a mega fund.

 
Khayembii:
jkim3381:

I also want add something else. Would a banking summer gig look unusual for a freshman? I feel like going to PWM as a freshman would look more natural (albeit overdone). On the same note, I feel like I would be able to tell a story about how I progressed towards banking better with a PWM role compared to jumping right into banking. Anybody want to chime in on the "story" part of these internships? From what I know, getting that "story" perfect is pretty important for the interviews.

Why would you think having some kind of story about transitioning into banking is better than just going straight into it, if that's what you want to do?

Deal experience is what matters the most if you want to go into banking, and you're not going to get that in PWM. If you think you'll be able to work a deal at this bank, then do it. Next summer you'll be competing with summer internships at BB's with people who worked in BB PWM and had absolutely no deal experience. You'll stick out, in a good way. Also, it can help you jump over to PE sooner, though not at a mega fund.

Knowledgeable Certified User to the rescue!!!

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln
 

To me this is a no brainer. Absolutely take the boutique IB, assuming it's not a 2-man shitshow. Then for your soph summer, apply to the BB/EBs. If you don't land a BB/EB gig as a soph, try to get another boutique IB internship and go for it again junior year.

It would be completely absurd to pick PWM over IB if your end goal is IB. I had PWM experience with a 3.8+ at a target and barely got any interviews for SA. The kids with 3.8+ and boutique IB experience got all the interviews.

 
GrandJury:

This shouldn't even still be up for debate.

Boutique IB.

This. Honestly, it doesn't matter if PWM is at GS; PWM is PWM. Banks give a lot more shits about what type of role you work in before your junior summer rather than the brand name of the institution if it's only in something like PWM. I worked at a boutique my sophomore summer, and I had no problems at all landing BB jobs my junior summer, even with a below average GPA.

The benefit of the boutique bank is twofold: 1.) You understand--even if at a superficial level--what the fuck banking actually is. If you're lucky, you'll see a deal in some stage or another; even if you don't, learning by osmosis is pretty valuable for a freshmen. You'll understand the different parts of the job, and at least become familiar with key concepts in banking. That is way more valuable than any PWM job, even if it's at GS/MS etc. And keep in mind, this is your freshman summer! That'll give you such a heads up next year for summer recruiting. 2.) It makes it so easy for you to answer the "why banking" question. So many people get tripped up on this - they don't have a good reason for going into banking other than money/prestige or the ever favorite "I am detail oriented and love to be challenged and learn fundamentals of corporate finance and I think banking would help me do all of that right out of college." Having worked at a bank already, you can tell them what specifically you liked doing and what more you'd like to learn. It makes you a much more engaging candidate.

Hope that helped. Let us know what you decide!

dollas
 

I work for a BB in PWM and can tell you firsthand that our internships are bullshit. go with IB.

the sole exception is if you're doing private banking at a firm like JPM, Goldman, CS, or DB. those internships are more like IB and more structured so the experience will be better than say if you're a "global wealth management intern" with Merrill Morgan or UBS.

edit: @"rogersterling59" please factcheck me, want to be sure I'm giving OP accurate info about PB.

 

This is correct. My bank's (one of the 4 mentioned) PB internship program is incredibly robust, pays the same as IB/S&T, and in addition to the work you are doing has an incredible number of market-oriented teach-ins and senior speakers from the firm and what not. My internship with my bank was so impressive, it is the reason I decided to join full time.

Given that his is your sophomore internship however, I would assume you are talking PWM, not PB. If you want to do BB IB definitely do the boutique internship. I feel that with your sophomore internship, what you learn matters more than name recognition. The fact that you gain modeling experience and the like at the boutique will resonate with a BB IB recruiter far more than the fact that you have 'Morgan Stanley' on your resume when they know all you did was cold call for a broker all summer.

I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
 
thebrofessor:

do NOT do PWM internships if you have other alternatives. I know this is weird because I'm the resident PWM guy, but these internships are bullshit and people know that.

I did a PWM internship and it's been a solid talking point in my S&T SA interviews this year. I'd say it's a good starting point if you're aiming for S&T or Asset Management next summer/FT. IB is a different story.
 

You guys are thinking about this the wrong way. BB PWM. Here's why:

You've already had exposure to IBD, so I'm going to assume that have some idea of what you're getting into. But why not try PWM? You might actually like it. You might actually be better at it. You might realize its something you'd rather do- if not now, at least somewhere down the line.

Generally speaking, people shouldn't repeat life experiences needlessly, and especially ones as mundane, monotonous, and empty as banking. Even if you somehow knew that given all of your skills/traits/ and current options, that BB IBD is the "only way to go" (doubtful), I would still recommend not doing the internships and instead spending that entire time getting on the phone and networking. Plenty of people break in without a fall internship. Plenty of people break in without any finance background whatsoever.

Your goal should be to maximize the chances of finding something you're good at/like, and minimize the chances of "Fuck, I should have done that instead". Is another investment banking internship really going to help in that regard?

 
Culcet:
You guys are thinking about this the wrong way. BB PWM. Here's why:

You've already had exposure to IBD, so I'm going to assume that have some idea of what you're getting into. But why not try PWM? You might actually like it. You might actually be better at it. You might realize its something you'd rather do- if not now, at least somewhere down the line.

Generally speaking, people shouldn't repeat life experiences needlessly, and especially ones as mundane, monotonous, and empty as banking. Even if you somehow knew that given all of your skills/traits/ and current options, that BB IBD is the "only way to go" (doubtful), I would still recommend not doing the internships and instead spending that entire time getting on the phone and networking. Plenty of people break in without a fall internship. Plenty of people break in without any finance background whatsoever.

Your goal should be to maximize the chances of finding something you're good at/like, and minimize the chances of "Fuck, I should have done that instead". Is another investment banking internship really going to help in that regard?

This is his Junior SA... The most important internship of his life. Do you think it's wise for him to backtrack and go fetch coffee and cold call? He needs to get more experience with valuation and formatting if he wants a FT IB offer.

 
Culcet:
You guys are thinking about this the wrong way. BB PWM. Here's why:

You've already had exposure to IBD, so I'm going to assume that have some idea of what you're getting into. But why not try PWM? You might actually like it. You might actually be better at it. You might realize its something you'd rather do- if not now, at least somewhere down the line.

Generally speaking, people shouldn't repeat life experiences needlessly, and especially ones as mundane, monotonous, and empty as banking. Even if you somehow knew that given all of your skills/traits/ and current options, that BB IBD is the "only way to go" (doubtful), I would still recommend not doing the internships and instead spending that entire time getting on the phone and networking. Plenty of people break in without a fall internship. Plenty of people break in without any finance background whatsoever.

Your goal should be to maximize the chances of finding something you're good at/like, and minimize the chances of "Fuck, I should have done that instead". Is another investment banking internship really going to help in that regard?

OP, do not listen to this guy. Not only is he completely wrong, but he is just trying to thinly veil his entrepreneurship hard-on. IBD should be the clear choice.
 
Culcet:
OP, don't listen to a single word I say if anyone here can actually address, let alone refute any of the points I made.
Ok, then.
Culcet:
You've already had exposure to IBD, so I'm going to assume that have some idea of what you're getting into. But why not try PWM? You might actually like it. You might actually be better at it. You might realize its something you'd rather do- if not now, at least somewhere down the line.
OP has already stated that he wants to do BB IBD. Passing on another IBD internship in favor of a PWM spot makes him a much less competitive candidate. A senior in high school can get a PWM position - it is the least competitive field in finance. There is also no way to "actually be better" at PWM: PWM interns are office bitches, whose responsibilities are limited to scheduling client meetings, getting coffee, and mailing quarterly statements to clients. Compare this to an IBD internship where you can actually add value.
Culcet:
Generally speaking, people shouldn't repeat life experiences needlessly, and especially ones as mundane, monotonous, and empty as banking.
Here you are completely wrong. If his resume went from IBD to PWM, they'd ask why he wasn't satisfied enough with banking to stick with it. Have you ever been in an interview? If so you should know that the first thing they try to assess in an interview is whether you actually know what you want and why. There is no better way to display this than to absolutely load up on experience in your desired industry.
Culcet:
Even if you somehow knew that given all of your skills/traits/ and current options, that BB IBD is the "only way to go" (doubtful), I would still recommend not doing the internships and instead spending that entire time getting on the phone and networking. Plenty of people break in without a fall internship. Plenty of people break in without any finance background whatsoever.
Most of this paragraph is your own opinion on banking. (See above, "your entrepreneurship hard-on".) However you do conclude it with some laughably bad logic that because some people work in IBD without previous industry internships, OP shouldn't even try to get the odds in his favor. You also say that OP should try and network instead of taking the job. Now let's think - which is a better place to network for investment banking: on his school campus, or in an investment bank? Tough tough choices.
Culcet:
Your goal should be to maximize the chances of finding something you're good at/like, and minimize the chances of "Fuck, I should have done that instead". Is another investment banking internship really going to help in that regard?
His goal is to get a fucking job. He's already said that. So the short answer to your question is "Yes, another investment banking internship really does make him a better candidate."
 

I think she should seriously consider BB PWM if her ultimate goal is going to a top MBA. The reason being that just because you do banking does not guarantee you a spot. Diversity is important from those schools so they would rather choose the best people from a wide range of fields and not just fill their schools with bankers...At least this is what I have heard from friends in MBA.

On the same note, I think each has its benefits in relation to consulting. BB PWM could help her make an argument about her background in team-oriented situations and how she was required to know a wide range of topics such as in consulting. On the other hand, banking would show she can handle the workload and do some heavy lifting in terms of excel and company analysis.

Just because it is IB does not mean it is > than all

 

It's a firm in midtown. it's too small for me to learn DCF and whatnot... especially because deals are so small that they are only evaluated for the short future, but I would have direct exposure to deal making and the research involved.

 
jcy243:
It's a firm in midtown. it's too small for me to learn DCF and whatnot... especially because deals are so small that they are only evaluated for the short future, but I would have direct exposure to deal making and the research involved.

1) What year are you?

2) I have friends doing BB PWM internships right now and they don't seem to enjoy it much. They all want IB. I know for sure one guy would slave for free to get an IB internship on his resume.

3) I've heard a BB PWM is good on your resume because it shows you're wanted by BBs. One has cleared you to not be insane and thus the others might be more willing to bite.

4) IF you're a sophomore, you might consider the BB PWM. If you absolutely kill it you might get handed a nifty piece of paper that asks what division you want to work in next.

5) Final note/idea: Don't discount or diminish the work experience you would do at a small firm. Most likely you will be dealt more responsibility than your counterparts at a BB, be forced to own your assignments and gain relevant/valuable banking experience.

 

@ God of Wine

I'm going to be a junior. As you pointed out, I'm really just stuck because I feel like having a BB name on my resume will look good. Also, a large factor is that interning there will set me up for next summer before senior year in a legit program. If I don't put my foot in that door, I fear I may never get that opportunity given that I'm a liberal arts major with a 3.2 gpa at NYU.

I already work at an Asset Management shop which I find extraordinarily dull. I have come to terms that PWM won't be much better, but it also is at one of the top BBs, and I'll be working with one of the top groups within the firm. I was thinking I could leverage that to something better.

Nevertheless I really want to do IB, mainly for the fact that it's a high-strung job that is actually rewarding and interesting. I can't see many of the other fields being quite the same...

Any more thoughts?

 

Probably depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking to transition into BB IB, or PE (which would be difficult from a boutique IB shop) then the IB is the way to go. You will get better hands-on training and my experience is that in a small shop you will have a lot more responsibility than at a larger place.

That being said, PWM will give you a solid name on the resume and will probably be a better lifestyle but transitioning into IB or PE from there would be tough. Nothing wrong with doing PWM for a living though... less money but a far more enjoyable lifestyle. If you are the only analyst at a boutique IB you could get seriously crushed a lot of the time.

 

Boutique IBD. If the MS thing is actually PWM and not wealth management, then maybe depending on MS's structure, you could hop over to banking after two years, otherwise the boutique is better. You could go back to b school after two years or go to a MM PE shop, or you could lateral to a MM or BB in a few years.

fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
 

Your experience at the Boutique will set you apart far more than a PWM style..rather it be for bschool, or any other career

 

boutique IB will not get you into PE in general (yes there are exceptions but they are VERY few and far between) even if you get decent deal exposure, but will help you jump to banking later on at a brand name firm more than MS Wealth management

 

The skills and experience you get in boutique IB will be much more relevant and helpful for FT recruiting than BB PWM. Even if your boutique is not hiring FT, you can use that experience to at least land interviews at other banks.

BB PWM is helpful early in college to show your interest in finance, but there are tons of offices and lots of kids do this so it wont really set you apart for recruiting.

 
notaspammer:
Boutique IB for sure. Most people do BB PWM. The typical progression is BB PWM --> Boutique IB --> BB IB. Why not skip the first step if you can?
He's a Junior... What you said makes no sense. They only go that route if Freshman summer is BB PWM, sophomore summer is boutique IB, junior summer is BB IB, then senior FT offer is BB IB.
 

To get into banking or get into a bigger bank it's best to get as close as possible. Boutique banking is far closer to "real banking" than PWM. I've had friends who have done PWM and no one seems to have a great opinion of it.

When do you have to respond to UBS by? Perhaps you can see how your internship goes in the first few weeks and base your decision off that?

 

ma all day...

here's why:

you may do IB and realize you hate it. If you try to go PWM full time they'll really respect IB exp. A bank won't give 2 shits about PWM.

(I know I did internships with both)

While my PWM internship helped get to the botique, PWM will RARELY help you get into banking.

I've never heard of anyone not landing a job because they had IB on their resume...

 

Unless you want to be a financial advisor, trying to get old doctors to fork over their money to you and advising people on their 401ks, take the IB. Unless your fortunate enough to work in ultra-high net work advisory, you likely face a long slog to build a list of decently wealthy clients ($1m-5m per acct.) and over the years (if your good) you'd probably max out making $1m-$2m per year in your late 50s (not to mention fees keep getting squeezed). Before you even start getting your own clients, you'll have to work as a glorified secretary for a few years, processing stuff for your boss (I interned at UBS PWM one summer so I've seen this myself).

Even though the IB firm sucks, you could always go back and get an MBA and upgrade firms, or just do so laterally without the MBA if you make some good connections. The work will also probably be more interesting, even if its only public finance.

 

congrats to you on both offers. though i have to say it seems to be a recurring theme of ppl interested in IB getting these PWM internships for the name (as a frosh)---obviously these ppl are not interested in PWM, so why do firms take them anyway versus other qualified candidates that want to actually do PWM (or does no one really want to)... are these ppl just good at BS-ing their way into the job?

it seems pretty clear that they're just using the PWN internship for leverage into IB---it just doesn't make sense to me that the firm would be willing do this yr after yr

thoughts?

 

I am getting pretty good experience at the IB.

At first it was a lot of research and qualitative stuff. The entire gig is unstructured, as I'm sure most boutiques are, so I have been able to really push for assignments that I want. There is no rigid hierarchy. I have built a couple of comps models, a precedent transaction model, and I have just started building a DCF for a new client that we landed last week. I also edit some marketing material, research strategic acquirers, and other random stuff.

My GPA is a 3.5 cumulative, 3.6 major at a non target, and I was able to maintain that with 20 semester credits while working ~ 25-30 hrs a week at the IB during school. I won't have any school this summer, so I don't have to worry about a GPA.

I actually know with a high degree of certainty that the PWM internship will mostly be fluff, I just want to start making some money to put towards rent, recreation, and student loans.

It seems to me that the pros would be a brand name on my resume and pay, while the cons would be its irrelevancy to IB and the additional time.

 

There won't be any cons if you don't put it on your resume.

Irregardless, you should do the internship and put it on your resume.

IB experience + Experience of working in a BB = In a great shape for IBD recruitment

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."
 

Take it, kudos on the job man. Really impressive.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

Thanks for the advice guys. I will do both.

Also, to respond to the previous two comments, I did have some semblance of a social life during the semester. I was able to go out 1-2 times per week, go to the gym 4 times per week, and rock climb with friends 1-2 times per week. A lot of it just came down to scheduling time effectively and efficiently.Working from home also saves a ton of time. You don't have to commute, you can multitask with things that aren't related to work (i.e. doing laundry while writing a report), etc.

 

I'd suggest that you base your decision on what you would rather do if your internship opportunity was turned into a FT offer.

PMW and IB have virtually nothing in common. PWM is a combination of three skill sets: A. ER B. investment advice/portfolio theory and C. client smooze ie client service ie sales. ( I guess you could say IB MD's use skill set C on their potential clients, but on the analyst/associate level PWM has nothing in common with IB)

Hours are less than 12 per day and the intensity of deadline of IB is not there EXCEPT for occasions involving client smooze. Pay scale and bonuses are significantly less on a level by level comparison.

Do your own due diligence on the differences and use it as a guide.

 

I can read books and guides detailing what each industry entails but I'll never be 100% sure until I get first hand experience. Based on reading alone, the underlying aspects of both banking and wealth management seem appealing to me, allure and glamour of banking aside. I just want to choose the option which provides the most valuable learning experience and provides the best advancement opportunity in whatever given track I may choose to pursue in the future.

 

It depends on the boutique. The only reason to go into banking is to work on live transactions. If, however, you will be relegated to pitch work and the boutique hasn't closed very many deals in the past year, relative to its peers by either deal volume or aggregate deal value, then I would go to BAML.

You can parlay a PWM internship into a FT position in other areas at the bank or another BB.

 

I did a PWM internship at Merrill, and let me tell you-- go with the i-bank. In a PWM internship you will be doing useless office work like making copies and looking up company tickers from 1970. I agree that if the boutique does not do very many deals, go with PWM. BTW I did mine in Colorado, maybe the PWM at Merrill here different compared to where you are? If I could have landed the summer internship at the boutique in CO (St. Charles Capital) I would have taken it with NO QUESTIONS ASKED. That said, I did eventually get a job in equity research at a large bank and leverage the PWM internship as much as possible.

Merrill does not hire out of undergrad for PWM. Look up PWM too...it is more difficult to build up your business than you think. Finally, go to glassdoor.com and they have ratings and more commentary on PWM internships at Merrill.

 
sk8247365:
I did a PWM internship at Merrill, and let me tell you-- go with the i-bank. In a PWM internship you will be doing useless office work like making copies and looking up company tickers from 1970...

He's right. I did one as well. It was basically worthless other than clarifying to people that I wanted to work in finance and was willing to pay my dues. I-banking is dues paying as well, but you are learning more and it serves as a better stepping stone to countless opportunities if you find it's not for you (definitely more so than PWM).

 

PWM internships depend on the group. Some of my friends did them, and they would cold call all damn day. I did one, and I did pretty awesome stuff, got to talk to clients a lot and actually did research that helped the group do its job, not useless crap like make copies and look up old tickers.

Wall Street leaders now understand that they made a mistake, one born of their innocent and trusting nature. They trusted ordinary Americans to behave more responsibly than they themselves ever would, and these ordinary Americans betrayed their trust.
 

Thanks for the replies so far, really appreciate it.

My school's not prestigious. If I cannot land a full time IB when recruiting season comes, which experience out of the two would give me a better shot at other divisions at a BB bank or a reputable company?

Portfolio management, research analyst, advisory.

 

Thanks for the input. I did see that thread beforehand, but I still wanted to know if the internship at Harvey was worth it despite the information given in that thread.

 

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  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (85) $262
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (65) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (198) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (143) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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