I am aware of the barrage of posts here that ask about which groups are the best at which banks, etc. This is not one of them - I care about the quality of people and the general deal flow that I will be exposed to.
I have had experience as an SA at a relatively strong BB with a more laid-back culture - think Credit Suisse and Citi (in IBD) where it's definitely less cutthroat.
I have had a great experience thus far, and could easily see myself coming back again - I like the people and culture at my firm. But at the end of the day, I want to best position my career. I have little interest in working at GS for personal reasons, and am considering MS, but have heard nearly as shitty things about the personalities of the people there.
Everyone I have been talking to has really been pushing JPM due to their overall strong deal flow in IBD and solid culture, but I know no one there. Can anyone speak in regards to this and maybe even their experience at the firm?
Taking all of this into account, where would you go knowing that you really can't control the group that you will be going into - and the fact that you don't want to be working with douchebags all day for the 2-3 years you plan to be there. Would you even come back to a CS or Citi in IBD?
You honestly think GS/MS/JPM are that much better than CS and Citi or any other BB for that matter?
I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand, but, assuming you are in a good group at a bulge bracket, if you are one of the top analysts, your opportunities will for the most part be on par with the other top analysts across bb's.
The most important contributing factor to the quality of post-IB opportunities is whether you outperformed your peers and have made great relationships with your colleagues.
JPM Anal IBD = 95% JPM SA IBD. Only 5-10% of incoming Anals come from non-JPM background. In other words, in the fall JPM will hire only 8-12 non-JPM monkeys for its IBD.
Forgot to mention - I will be a SA again next summer.
There is wayyy too much emphasis on names here. If we're talking CS IBD vs. JPM IBD, I'm going to side with the above and that if you're looking to get into PE, it's going to be more emphasis on your personal achievement relative to your peers, and work exp.
If it's between one BB and another, I would focus more on which group I'm joining (for personal interest to a particular industry and general exposure/experience) and culture/fit. Even if you join a top tier bank, if you don't like the people you work with, it will be hard to become a star analyst because you'll just hate your time there too much to put in the effort.
From peers who work/worked at both, I have heard more or less the same as you have mentioned. JPM is (overall) very collegial, and more easy-going compared to MS.
Working at Goldman, Morgan, or top boutique (Blackstone, Greenhill, etc) will get you into top PE. JPM and below are tier-2 prospects when it comes to PE placement.
Disagree with all comments but the last - there is a huge difference in your opportunities coming out of GS/MS/JPM and every other place. You can talk all you want about how the experience and your relationships with superiors are the only things that matter, but the large PE firms and HFs focus their hiring almost solely on the analysts coming out of the "top" banks. Whether or not these analysts are "better" is debatable, but know that your opportunities will be much better after two years in IBD at these places.
You're not even in banking, so what the hell do you know?
I know for a fact that the top PE firms recruit from bulge brackets outside of GS/MS/JPM.
He's actually right. While there are lots of associates at PE firms from C, CS, DB, JPM etc on the street, the reality of the fact is that very few % of analysts really get into PE from these firms. You 1) Usually need to be in a good group (Fin Sponsors/M&A are popular) AND 2) Be a top analyst in this group. So in reality out of the 150 analysts in a class at these places, only a handful will end up at the top PE shops. Whereas if you work at GS or MS, you can essentially come from any group and have a much better shot at a top PE gig. There aren't that many PE jobs out there (maybe like 300 total for a new associate class at the top 100 firms???) And kids at GS and MS clean them up (and kids from top boutiques do as well). Of course, if you kill it at one of the above firms in a good group you'll have no problem, but you're taking a bigger risk going in than if you had just joined GS or MS in the first place.
Holy shit this forum is out of hand. Please, stop spreading incorrect and false bullshit, as it can actually affect how others perceive that which is actually true.
As an analyst at a BB, I know for a fact that everything you just said is utterly wrong. I personally know that a very substantial portion of each IBD group at most of the bulge brackets move on to PE/HF, all while having many other PE opportunities from the recruiting cycle. Your ridiculous assumption about total "numbers" for PE recruiting are just foolish. First off, there are a lot more than just 100 quality PE shops nationwide, junior. And secondly, you're making a generalization that the average is three incoming associates per shop, when that is a very bad judgement, especially when using the top funds as your data point.
The fact is, if you work in IBD at a bulge bracket, and you have done good work, you will have the opportunity to move to PE, period.
I agree with this post. The groups that give you a substantial leg up are GS TMT, MS M&A, and maybe GS FIG (in my opinion there is little arguing this). If you aren't in one of those groups, it doesn't make a huge difference for PE recruiting. Yeah it is slightly easier to get into a better fund from Healthcare at GS as opposed to Healtcare at C. But, if you work at a respected BB (in coverage, M&A, levfin or Sponsors), do a good job, are intelligent, are a normal person, and people like you, then you should get interviews at plenty of firms in the top 30. Don't worry about it and join a group where you like the people.
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