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Comments (23)

Sep 3, 2017 - 5:48pm

Not sure what criteria you'd use for best, but here is my impression of the most sought-after groups by incoming summers:

  1. M&A

  2. Mediacomm

  3. Sponsors/GPUG/Transpo

  4. C&R/Industrials

  5. Healthcare/Tech (East Coast)

  6. FIG/Services/Natres/RE (if interested in more traditional banking exp.)

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Sep 4, 2017 - 4:54pm

Sorry, meant RE will be a bad placement outcome for those who want a traditional experience. But MS has a great RE group, so if you want to do REPE I think it's a good spot.

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:47pm

They have not had the strongest performances in FX and Rates as of late.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.
-30 Rock

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:51pm

ok time for a reality check here.

FX is not M&A, "league tables" don't mean anything.
Volume of flow is not as indicative of profitability as it might be in banking where fees are pretty fixed.
You can have the most flow in spot/forwards/options and still end up underwater because positioning in the books was... less than ideal.

So to measure how "good" an FX desk is (particularly in more complex businesses like exotics) you should look at a few things

  1. risk tolerance and ability to position the books favorably
  2. accuracy of the models used for pricing
  3. general intelligence of the traders (stems from the first 2)

Another thing... if the fx business of the firm in question has solid franchise flow, i.e. corporates who leave a lot of money on the table, the desk may be quite profitable, but thats not because its traders are superstars, its because the sales guys have clients who aren't very spread sensitive, so guess who gets paid in those situations? yes, sales will out-earn trading by lightyears if that is the case... these are things to think about.

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:53pm
Ok but how are you supposed to know which desk is good if you can't use brand name nor deal flow...

We don't have access to "trader's skill" or pnl...

that's my point exactly... college juniors won't know.... there's no public ranking that can provide any guidance on the matter, so stop looking for it.

the only way you'll figure it out is by rotating on some of these desks, or going in and sitting with a few of them to get a sense of how the desk is structured (i.e. sales driven vs. trading driven... significant corporate flow vs. predatory hedge fund flow... risk taking vs. book flattening approach)

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:55pm

Groups at MS/GS (Originally Posted: 03/25/2016)

Just wanted to get a general idea of culture of the Financial Institutions groups at GS/MS as well as the Consumer Retail / Healthcare groups.

I know FIG gets a lot of hype on this forum at both these firms, but does it live up to it in terms of deal flow? You don't see too many M&A news in financial institutions on news sites and things of that nature.

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:56pm

You have a misconstrued idea of deal flow. Statistically, the vast majority of deal flow is not M&A, rather it is loans and debt. Financials are consistently near the top group in new issues and refi's.

In your definition of "deal flow" (M&A), there is plenty of activity in Fin Tech; a quick Google search could tell you that...

Sep 4, 2017 - 7:57pm

MS FIG definitely has strong deal flow. Consumer probably a bit less so but consistently improving over the past few years. Neither group is exactly known for having a good culture.

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