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9/4/06

I think NYU/Chicago/London would be shitty locations to work at; I would rather work in San Francisco/Australia/New Zealand since they have better weather, better scenery, beaches etc.

Comments (227)

  •  9/4/06

Since when did "NYU" become a place to do I-banking and new zealand's population is 4 million people...speaks to the enormity of banking volume that must go on in their economy.

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9/4/06

Australians are essentially trash.

Look, if you want to do the biggest deals, know who's who, and live in the greatest city on earth, then work in Manhattan. Duh.

9/5/06

I mean, it was started out as a prison colony for British criminals.
.
.
.
This is what you learn as a history major.

9/5/06

Not a commentary on Aussies or their work habits, just a statement of the country's historical role as a British commonwealth.

9/4/06

idiot, you mean NYC

9/4/06

NYU/NYC, they both suck.

9/4/06

Only way to get an ok work/life balance

Best Response
9/4/06

"Only way to get an ok work/life balance"

You want a work/life balance, then get out of IBD. Or work in ECM, because apparently that's where all the hot shots are going these days (according to a few posters on here).

the title of this thread is "Best Location for Investment Banking." the answer, sport, is NYC. the capital of the financial universe. if the thread was asking about the best place to work BUT have time to go surfing, then maybe we'd open it up to those other laughable alternatives.

9/4/06

Though I guess you have a hard time doing that in NYC...

  •  9/4/06

zala, you're a fucking moron senior in college (likely second tier ivy wannabe) who think's he's big shit because he interned at some second tier poser bulge bracket bank (CS, UBS, BOA). Australians are consistently some of the smartest kids in the global analyst classes at each of the bulge bracket (ask around) but agreed australia doesn't have an economy larger than 20 million people. Regardless, stop trying to externally validate your existence and get on with your fucking life.

  •  9/4/06

zala is right. Australians are dumbshit. Descendents of criminals and convicts can't be good stuff. Not to mention the weather in Australia is reversed. NYC is the shit where all the big deals get done. If you want work/life balance then go back to your commercial or retail banking job where you work 9-5 and go home to your wife and watch tv.

9/5/06

"zala is right. Australians are dumbshit. Descendents of criminals and convicts can't be good stuff. Not to mention the weather in Australia is reversed. NYC is the shit where all the big deals get done. If you want work/life balance then go back to your commercial or retail banking job where you work 9-5 and go home to your wife and watch tv."

notwithstanding the fact that big deals get done in NY, the first sentence is one of the most moronic statements i've heard in ages. Australia is one of the most cosmopolitan countries with more than half the population being born in a country other than Australia.

  •  9/5/06

zala is a dimwit fuckshit who doesn't know his ass from his dick. keep your arrogance in check before somebody stuffs it up your ass one day

  •  9/5/06

i grew up in nyc and moved to canada a few years back to go to university. i had no idea how arrogant americans are until i moved out of there. there are OTHER places to do ibanking. i mean, there are OTHER countries, you know, other friggin G8 nations, like friggin canada. i'm almost sure canada has investment banks. i'm sure they're really big with big buildings, just like nyc.

i can't believe people still buy into the nyc hype. yes you make a lot of money there in ibanking but you can make MUCH more (adjusted) livin in toronto/montreal/vancouver. life if MUCH better here. i know this because i've lived in both places countries.

graduate from a top undergrad school in the states, then land a job in toronto/montreal and enjoy luxury for the rest of your life.

9/5/06

if your an energy banker, go to houston
if your a tech banker, go to san francisco
if your a banker not categorized by the above, go to NY or London

  •  9/5/06

If you live in Canada, you won't make a lot of money b/c their taxes are high. It's a socialist country and if you are an idiot if you move there to make money. Might as well move to France.

12/26/06

Anonymous Monkey

Toronto, Canada, has lower marginal tax rates than NYC -- NYC has 3 levels of tax: federal, state, and city. These add up to more than the highest marginal rate in Ontario, where Toronto is located. Toronto banks' salaries compare to NYC, albeit in Canadian dollars, and has a much lower cost of living. You also get free health care, low crime, and quality public schools and universities.

12/27/06

there are many ways of looking at which locations are better: weather wise, people wise, hours wise, and compensation wise. However, if you are going into a IB program (typically 2 years), you have to understand that you want to get the best experience as possible. Weather becomes a moot point when you are working ~80+ hrs a week. Comp also becomes a moot point as discrepances of 5-10k at the analyst level can be disregarded since the experience you get can lead to millions in 8-10 years...thus my choices for best locations (under my chief criterion of experience) are nyc, london and hong kong. enough said.

9/5/06

New York City imo

Banking > VC > Tech PE; PM me if you would like any advice I'm happy to help

9/5/06

NYC

9/5/06

I vote London...salaries and bonuses high, street gone crazy and its way classier than NYC/U

9/5/06

"notwithstanding the fact that big deals get done in NY, the first sentence is one of the most moronic statements i've heard in ages. Australia is one of the most cosmopolitan countries with more than half the population being born in a country other than Australia."

I read this, as

  •  9/5/06

Australia is DEFINITELY NOT one of the most cosmopolitan countries in the world...

9/8/06

Cuba is where its at!

9/8/06

I'm an Aussie, and to be fair, Australia doesn't have all the deals due to the size of the economy. This is our disadvantage. However because Banking is so small in Australia, as a result only the best gets picked.

To give you an idea, I got 100% in advanced maths, 99.15 in overall score and I still can't get into IB. We don't have the luxury of attending Harvard or Wharton, we are definately smart enough, its just the distance factor. The people I met in Australian IBanking are gunners. Hence they do really well in the global market.

Just watch out for Macquarie bank from down under...

  •  9/8/06

Does location even really matter that much? since I've been in i-banking, I've hardly had any time enjoying sunlight, let alone scenary and beaches...If you want to be a career banker, the best training ground is NYC or LA (UBS/CSFB)

9/9/06

Agree that Macquarie has been making a splash throughout the world with aggressive bids for tollroads, airports, stock exchanges etc. However, don't think it's their IBD that is behind the moves. Does anyone have any ideas about the presence of Macquarie in the US?

  •  9/10/06

Macquarie has about 90 bankers or so in the US chasing acquistions and are looking to grow significantly. These guys all work in IBD, the group behind all the moves. Basically it is a big PE shop meaning they do little, if any, sell-side.

  •  9/10/06

anybody know how much Macquarie pays in australia and NY?
boz928, did you even get any interviews with your grades?

  •  9/10/06

australia
"I mean, it was started out as a prison colony for British criminals."

and i think the US started out as a place for refugees

  •  9/11/06

'To give you an idea, I got 100% in advanced maths, 99.15 in overall score and I still can't get into IB.'

Isn't there more to it than just a high school result?

9/11/06

I had an interview with Macquarie in Australia. Starting salary is $85k as first analyst, which is towards the top end of graduate salaries on offer.

9/11/06

$85k?!?!?!??!?!?!?

OMG that's a LOT of money....wait, including or excluding bonus? US Dollar or Austrailian Dollar?

"We are lawyers! We sue people! Occasionally, we get aggressive and garnish wages, but WE DO NOT ABDUCT!" -Boston Legal-

9/12/06

how can you go anywhere but nyc?

  •  9/12/06

If it's 85AUD it's not near the top end... top end reaches up to 100-110. Also, Australia has high super contribution and bad tax rates.

9/12/06

You are referring to AUD right? If you are talking about USD, that converts to 113AUD...that's wayyy more than what a 1st yr analyst earns in NYC

We should all heck it with NYC and flock down-under to work!

  •  9/12/06

graduate salaries.

  •  9/13/06

scottius how did your interview go? do you know anything about the bonus?

  •  9/13/06

AUD110 base for 1st year analysts? Where?

Yeah tax is bad here. What is the tax rate in the USA?

9/14/06

Billion dollar deals, great pay, lowest taxes in Canada and amazing skiing within a few hours. And the Stampede doesn't hurt.

9/14/06

what banks are in dc?

  •  9/14/06

Evercore. One of the top "true" boutiques.

12/28/06

china

12/28/06

It really just depends on what kind of lifestyle you want, I can't really see anything beyond NYC or Chicago, all these foreign countries are pretty backward to me (and yes, I have been pretty much everywhere).

12/28/06

haha you're a dumbass

12/28/06

agree here, complete dumbass

1/9/07

sup yall...i've done banking in chicago, ny & hk...every place has its positives and negatives, just depends what you're loooking for...chicago has cheaper living expenses and more chill culture, nyc has the bigger deals, and hk has the interest of emerging markets and low taxes plus housing allowance...if all u care about is money, you will make much more on a net basis in hk w/ all the perks, but that's only assuming you don't mind being in hk in the first place...

1/9/07

Associate salaries in Toronto are around CAD180-200K all in, but this is a bull market. Now that income trusts are gone (necessary), let's see how it shapes out. Could lead to more banking revenues if business trusts want to convert back into corps, although a taxable event. Toronto is a great city, clean, safe, free health care and lower marginal taxes than NYC. However, many things are expensive compared to the US, although housing is dirt cheap, compared to NYC.

I go to B-School in Canada, worked in the US for a while too.

I interned in London for a BB bank last summer and London rocks. However, very expensive. Expect to make ~GBP100-110K, all in, or a little more in banking as a 1st year associate. Ramps up faster than Canada though, more deal volume, more international.. but as said before, cost of living and transport is crippling in addition to a bit more work than T.dot, although still less than NYC.

HK would be the schnizzle. 18% tax. Or Dubai, 0% tax!

Metals & Mining I-Banker

1/9/07

actually hk is 16% tax, but if you're american, u are only exempt from US taxes for the first 80k...but when you factor in the housing allowance, it's a great deal

2/27/07

what's the tax for Australia?

3/26/07

tax for australia is something like 46%, plus 1.5% medicare levy.

3/26/07

Aust has a progressive tax rate. 46% is for every dollar above AUD150k.

Also, AUD85k for Macq is true. But they pay the least out of every bank I know. I can think of two banks that pay AUD100k.

3/26/07

NYC or london

3/27/07

Take it from a non-local who made the trip & got in by knocking on doors -- HK is the shit. I ain't goin home.

3/27/07

Take it from a non-local who made the trip & got in by knocking on doors -- HK is the sh1t. I ain't goin home.

3/27/07

NYC is still the financial capital of the world for a reason. If you work there you will make the most money, spend the most money, and if you suceed there you will be the most successful. End of discussion. (unless you fall into bicoastal's two categories he described)

3/27/07

Quattrone and Moelis did quite well for themselves out on the west coast. But on average, NYC is still the best place if you suceed. However, that will change in my opinion in the next 5 years when London will become truly dominant and HK/Shanghai will be more prevalent than they are today.

3/27/07

go to Dubai..best city ever..

4/22/07

Australia is high -- 50%+, I believe.

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4/22/07

I rather start in NYC because it is relatively easier to get in than like in Europe, Canada, or any other country.

4/22/07

Australia is not 50%+.

Anyway, with the weak US dollar, NYC would be one of the least desirable places imho.

4/22/07

Hong kong is the best I've seen. It's like London / NY for banking set-up but you are 20 minutes away from the beach. If you are european looking you can get just about any girl you want.

4/22/07

How difficult is it to get into HK with experience in London/NY but no directly relevant language skills? Was in HK a few weeks ago, I have to agree it is a very cool place, guess it's the whole expat lifestyle really.

4/22/07

this thread is awesome

4/23/07

It's pretty easy. Why would you want to do that anyway....

4/23/07

London/NYC

Be a big fish bitches - don't pull this work/life balance. In New Zealand you'll be closing 40 dollar deals and sit on your ass the rest of the day. You might as well be unemployed. Now there's some good work/life balance.

4/23/07

Yes, I don't imagine anyone would go out of their way to relocate to New Zealand unless there were some extrenuous circumstances.

4/23/07

Dubai.

4/23/07

New York

4/23/07

NYC

4/23/07

Are you joking when you say NYC? I thought NYC is a rip off place, despite your very high overall compensation?

4/23/07

Moscow

4/23/07

Hong Kong

4/23/07

Miami

4/23/07

Houston,Charlotte,Atlanta,Miami

4/23/07

NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis

4/23/07

Beny23:

NYC, Chicago, Minneapolis

Minneapolis...? Why?

4/23/07

Tampa.

Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe those who are dedicated.

4/23/07

Dubai.

4/23/07

antarctica

I hear Bob's Eskimo Spears just did a record $88B LBO of Dan's Authentic Igloos

"so i herd u liek mudkipz" - sum kid
"I'd watergun the **** outta that." - Kassad

4/23/07

LA

4/23/07

It seems like nearly all of the posters just read the headline. The opening poster is asking for the best city for IB in terms of saving the most of his salary. Hence, it's clearly not NYC.

Animalz, regarding Moscow: My friend lateraled to the Moscow office of my firm and he said that apartments near the office in fairly good condition are ridiculously expensive, so I don't know.

I'd say that Dubai / UAE is probably the place to be if saving as much as possible is your sole concern.

4/23/07

Milan is competitive. You can easily save 50% of your monthly income + 100% of your bonus. Probably it is the same in Frankfurt. (This is for a first year. The more senior you get, the higher the % saved obv.)

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.

4/23/07

You can save in Dubai, but the banker lifestyle here is as expensive as anywhere else, although saving 40% on tax is a huge help. But bonuses tend to be lower.

4/23/07

I'll say Chicago's not bad. Much lower cost of living, but still about 90% of the amenities (restaurants, cultural attractions) of NYC. You still have state income taxes though...

Anywhere in Texas is solid, although odds are good you'll be working in energy (which can be a good or bad thing).

THE PsYcHoLoGy:

Tampa.

How's Tampa for quality of life? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking great weather and girls, but what else?

4/23/07

Currently living in Tampa, theres pros and cons

Pros:
-girls are hot
-pro sport teams
-no income tax
-very low COL
-lots of golf courses
-on the water
-hot year round(could be a con as well)

cons:
-not a "sexy" location. Theres no world class resteraunts or really nice bars.
-not a lot of finance opportunities around
-the nightlife mostly consist of college students and 20-something wannabe ballers

as you can see its not a bad place to live

4/23/07

above_and_beyond:

It seems like nearly all of the posters just read the headline. The opening poster is asking for the best city for IB in terms of saving the most of his salary. Hence, it's clearly not NYC.

Animalz, regarding Moscow: My friend lateraled to the Moscow office of my firm and he said that apartments near the office in fairly good condition are ridiculously expensive, so I don't know.

I'd say that Dubai / UAE is probably the place to be if saving as much as possible is your sole concern.

i agree with your post
sorry, moscow probably isnt the right contestant for the best city
i dropped the first thing on my mind without thinking too much

moscow is great for several things:
-salary
-bonus
-(relatively) low tax
-fun/friends/women/mentality of the people/culture
-business exposure/networking
-lucrative career opportunities without structured path and too much waste-of-time-preftige etc.

bad things are obviously:
-cost of living and location
-weather
-language (very hard for some ppl)
-security
-corruption

there are crazy rich people there, and prices are outrageous (moscow is constantly in top5 cost of living rankings). however, majority of the people are actually way below average (at least imho), many poor people as well. if you know where to buy food and regular stuff, it is actually pretty cheap. however, accommodation is ridiculous, and one would probably live at least an hour from city center.

moscow feels like home to me and i would love to work there for some time. however, it might not suit everyones mentality and expectations.

4/23/07

cruel3a:

Milan is competitive.

Milan?!? Italy has some of the lowest salaries in the civilized world, and Milan one of the highest cost of living in Europe.

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

cruel3a:

Milan is competitive.

Milan?!? Italy has some of the lowest salaries in the civilized world, and Milan one of the highest cost of living in Europe.

If you work for JPM/GS/Nomura/ML/Citi/BarCap/DB/etc. there you take the same amount of money you would get in London (i.e. 45-50K pounds in London vs 60-65K euro in Milan. Pre bonus which lead to 2500 pounds net per month in London vs 3000 euro net per month in Milan, but you will have a flat rent way more cheap (600-1000 euro per month according to what you want) against 650-1000 pounds in London; tube is 17 euro per month if you are Personal experience.

Btw, you already gave the answer: BB pay is the same (same contract, different currency with favorable currency rate) with everyone else getting less (which lead to a lower cost of life compared to London).

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.

4/23/07

cruel3a:

Ibracadabra:
cruel3a:

Milan is competitive.

Milan?!? Italy has some of the lowest salaries in the civilized world, and Milan one of the highest cost of living in Europe.

If you work for JPM/GS/Nomura/ML/Citi/BarCap/DB/etc. there you take the same amount of money you would get in London (i.e. 45-50K pounds in London vs 60-65K euro in Milan. Pre bonus which lead to 2500 pounds net per month in London vs 3000 euro net per month in Milan, but you will have a flat rent way more cheap (600-1000 euro per month according to what you want) against 650-1000 pounds in London; tube is 17 euro per month if you are <27 yrs old vs 100 pounds a month in London and I don't want to start to talk about going to restaurants and clubs...).

Personal experience.

Btw, you already gave the answer: BB pay is the same (same contract, different currency with favorable currency rate) with everyone else getting less (which lead to a lower cost of life compared to London).

There are probably 2-3 analyst per each of those shops you mention in Milan and they start you as an intern on a 6 months contract. Regardless, I head bonuses are less than half of what they are in the US for instance, not to mention taxes are astronomically high in Italy. There is a reason why all smart driven people leave.

4/23/07

Yes, you are right about the fact that sometimes they require 6 months internships and that the analyst class is limited (although usually you can move to abroad after 2 yrs) and yes, bonuses are probably lower than in USA.
All career driven (not necessarily smart since there are thousands of reason to prefer italy to another place (the opposite is true as well)) people leave because the exit opportunities in Italy are nearly 0...
Having said that, we are going off topic. The only fact is that there you can easily save at least 50% of your base salary + 100% of your bonus (which I argue is more than what you can save in London or NYC).
There, as you said, there are several other reasons why not go there (career opportunities or prestige related) while there are thousands of other reasons to go (i.e. quality of life, work life balance, etc.).

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.

4/23/07

cruel3a:

There, as you said, there are several other reasons why not go there (career opportunities or prestige related) while there are thousands of other reasons to go (i.e. quality of life, work life balance, etc.).

Agree. Very similar situation to Miami.

4/23/07

Quality of life in Milan is shit.

4/23/07

trionfatore:

Quality of life in Milan is shit.

Personally prefer It to Paris or Frankfurt and prefer Italy to UK by far... But that's personal...

I'm grateful that I have two middle fingers, I only wish I had more.

4/23/07

Genesis:

You can save in Dubai, but the banker lifestyle here is as expensive as anywhere else, although saving 40% on tax is a huge help. But bonuses tend to be lower.

If you're American, you'll have to pay US taxes no matter where you live/work.
4/23/07

Luckily there is a fix for that.

4/23/07

Houston has to be up on that list...
- No state taxes
- Cheap housing
- Cheap restaurants/bars

downsides being the summer weather and the fact that everything revolves around the energy industry (not necessarily bad if that's your thing).

4/23/07

houston77:

Houston has to be up on that list...

- No state taxes

- Cheap housing

- Cheap restaurants/bars

downsides being the summer weather and the fact that everything revolves around the energy industry (not necessarily bad if that's your thing).

I don't think the weather is the major downside. What about the environment (no beaches, no mountains, nothing to do besides golf and shopping) and lame night life?

4/23/07

New York is obviously the best when it comes to career prospects, but if you land at a good bank in Chicago or Houston your salary will go farther than in NYC. Depending on your personal preference you might think the night life, food and culture of NYC make it far better than any other city.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

4/23/07

TNA:
Depending on your personal preference you might think the night life, food and culture of NYC make it far better than any other city.

Definitely not better than Miami when factor in the weather and natural environment.

4/23/07

Thanks for your feedback so far; keep more coming!

4/23/07

Houston 110%

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

houston77:

Houston has to be up on that list...

- No state taxes

- Cheap housing

- Cheap restaurants/bars

downsides being the summer weather and the fact that everything revolves around the energy industry (not necessarily bad if that's your thing).

I don't think the weather is the major downside. What about the environment (no beaches, no mountains, nothing to do besides golf and shopping) and lame night life?

I believe the original question was where could someone save the most money. Places with beautiful environments (mountains, beaches, weather, etc), history/nightlight, and an active banking sector also tend to be high cost places to live (SF, LA, NYC, London etc). There is plenty to do in Houston but it takes a bit more effort than other cities to find it...have you checked out websites such as Bayou City Outdoors?

Anyways, who cares what the environment or shopping is like, if you work in i-banking you will rarely be able to enjoy those things anyway!

4/23/07

houston77:

Ibracadabra:
houston77:

Houston has to be up on that list...

- No state taxes

- Cheap housing

- Cheap restaurants/bars

downsides being the summer weather and the fact that everything revolves around the energy industry (not necessarily bad if that's your thing).

I don't think the weather is the major downside. What about the environment (no beaches, no mountains, nothing to do besides golf and shopping) and lame night life?

I believe the original question was where could someone save the most money. Places with beautiful environments (mountains, beaches, weather, etc), history/nightlight, and an active banking sector also tend to be high cost places to live (SF, LA, NYC, London etc). There is plenty to do in Houston but it takes a bit more effort than other cities to find it...have you checked out websites such as Bayou City Outdoors?

Anyways, who cares what the environment or shopping is like, if you work in i-banking you will rarely be able to enjoy those things anyway!

Houston, hands down, especially when considering the OP's original question.

The summer weather isn't that much of a downside. It's physically hotter and more humid, but you don't ever need to be outside long enough to break a sweat. No mountains, just some big rocks, but Galveston is less than an hour's drive away, Matagorda Bay another hour on top of that and Corpus Christi is totally doable for a weekend. Also great if you like riding, fishing or hunting and there are some decent state parks. Music scene is decent, people are friendly and you won't feel broke all the time. Personally, I think the girls are great. The men are what suck.

4/23/07

Could anyone expand on IBD in Australia or somewhere like Singapore or Hong Kong? I'm interested in seeing what the lifestyle is like there.

From someone living in Houston right now, and having lived in Texas for the past 8 years, you definitely get used to the weather. I made a trip to New York early in the summer (LOVED it by the way...it was my first time), and when I stepped out of the airport after I came back, a wall of dense humidity hit me like a NFL linebacker on roids and I immediately became sweatier than a fat kid in a sauna. I got spoiled in my short 2 weeks up in NYC.

As far as money goes, it goes much further in Houston or Dallas. In Houston it's primarily energy (which isn't particularly my biggest interest), but it's my opinion that energy and tech are huge industries to get into so living in Texas is not a bad idea at all

Used to live near San Fran but I don't know how IB in the West Coast is like.

Never been to Chicago but I would love to go.

4/23/07

Replying from Australia - Sydney to be specific. I am not actually in the IBD industry, however, have spoken to friends about it.

The base salary for an analyst is relatively similar to what you should be getting in the States, however, bonuses lately have been small to non-existent (or so I have been told - unless you were in a BB that was doing really well, you shouldn't really expect much in way of bonuses).

Having said that, taxes in Australia are fairly high (?) by my estimations. On 100K, your marginal tax rate would be 37%, and you would be paying approx. 25K in taxes.

Cost of living in Australia is fairly high too. If you were to live in the Sydney CBD area, you would be paying close to 1.5-2K a month on rent alone. According to http://www.numbeo.com/ you are looking to pay approx 17% more for a similar basket of goods in Sydney.

Not quite sure what is in that basket of goods, but as an example. A corona on a regular night out, will set you back close to AUD10.

So if you factor all that in, you could probably save about 30-40% of your income if you lived frugally?

4/23/07

mehtal:

houston77:
Ibracadabra:
houston77:

Houston has to be up on that list...

- No state taxes

- Cheap housing

- Cheap restaurants/bars

downsides being the summer weather and the fact that everything revolves around the energy industry (not necessarily bad if that's your thing).

I don't think the weather is the major downside. What about the environment (no beaches, no mountains, nothing to do besides golf and shopping) and lame night life?

I believe the original question was where could someone save the most money. Places with beautiful environments (mountains, beaches, weather, etc), history/nightlight, and an active banking sector also tend to be high cost places to live (SF, LA, NYC, London etc). There is plenty to do in Houston but it takes a bit more effort than other cities to find it...have you checked out websites such as Bayou City Outdoors?

Anyways, who cares what the environment or shopping is like, if you work in i-banking you will rarely be able to enjoy those things anyway!

Houston, hands down, especially when considering the OP's original question.

The summer weather isn't that much of a downside. It's physically hotter and more humid, but you don't ever need to be outside long enough to break a sweat. No mountains, just some big rocks, but Galveston is less than an hour's drive away, Matagorda Bay another hour on top of that and Corpus Christi is totally doable for a weekend. Also great if you like riding, fishing or hunting and there are some decent state parks. Music scene is decent, people are friendly and you won't feel broke all the time. Personally, I think the girls are great. The men are what suck.

Those places are crap compared to Florida. And so are the women compared to Miami.

4/23/07

GrandJury:

Could anyone expand on IBD in Australia or somewhere like Singapore or Hong Kong? I'm interested in seeing what the lifestyle is like there.


From someone living in Houston right now, and having lived in Texas for the past 8 years, you definitely get used to the weather. I made a trip to New York early in the summer (LOVED it by the way...it was my first time), and when I stepped out of the airport after I came back, a wall of dense humidity hit me like a NFL linebacker on roids and I immediately became sweatier than a fat kid in a sauna. I got spoiled in my short 2 weeks up in NYC.


As far as money goes, it goes much further in Houston or Dallas. In Houston it's primarily energy (which isn't particularly my biggest interest), but it's my opinion that energy and tech are huge industries to get into so living in Texas is not a bad idea at all


Used to live near San Fran but I don't know how IB in the West Coast is like.


Never been to Chicago but I would love to go.

ibd in hk is brutal - expect 8/9 - 2 am every day and weekends if u r in BB industry group - cap markets are a bit better but not by much

also exit opps are not that gr8, contrary to what ppl say - if u wanna work in asia go to hk, stay in US if u wann work in us

"so i herd u liek mudkipz" - sum kid
"I'd watergun the **** outta that." - Kassad

4/23/07

Florida, hmmm? I doubt there's any banking industry in Florida?

4/23/07

xmasboy:

Florida, hmmm? I doubt there's any banking industry in Florida?

Ignorance is bliss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brickell#Background

"Brickell is home to the largest concentration of international banks in the United States"

4/23/07

To answer OP's question...
Charlotte and Houston both have significant banking presences (as others mentioned Houston will be heavily energy focused)
Both are very cheap especially CLT
HOU is a bigger city with better nightlife but Charlotte puts you within ~2 hours of lakes, mountains and beaches so really personal preference

4/23/07

For what it's worth Charlotte has a really low cost of living but it's diminishing in profile as a banking town. Wells Has their ib hq there but everything else is kind of small. B of A has a lev fin team there but they are just hanging on as the firm is looking to move every thing to ny. Two of the boutiques edgeview and mccoll also just got bought out.

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:
Milan one of the highest cost of living in Europe.


What Europe are you talking about? Milan is dirt cheap by UK, France, Benelux, Nordic, Western German or Swiss standards.

At a senior level, they guys saying NYC are right. No matter how high the taxes or cost of living is, that's where the biggest bonuses are.

4/23/07

Scranton, Pennsylvania

4/23/07

Not sure why anyone in their sane mind would want to live in Florida

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

4/23/07

streetwannabe:

Not sure why anyone in their sane mind would want to live in Florida

"Haters gonna hate"...3rd most populous state in the country. I guess lots of people.

4/23/07

Just my opinion. Population of the state has nothing to do with how desireable the location is though.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

4/23/07

cruel3a:


trionfatore:

Quality of life in Milan is shit.


Personally prefer It to Paris or Frankfurt and prefer Italy to UK by far... But that's personal...

I studied abroad in Rome and preferred London a lot more when I visited. Very similar to American culture while having a heavy focus/brotherhood around soccer. I haven't been to Milan, but if you don't speak Italian/come off as an American, there's no way Italian girls will talk to you.

From what I've read, it seems like:

Houston if you're looking for an all-around place to live, low COL, saving much more compared to major cities.

NY/Miami/West Coast (possibly even Chicago) if you're looking to enjoy yourself while you're young and not worried about saving a bunch of money.

4/23/07

alargefox:
I haven't been to Milan, but if you don't speak Italian/come off as an American, there's no way Italian girls will talk to you.

This is true. I guess that's why most Americans prefer Northern Europe. Women drink like men there. Very classy.

4/23/07

streetwannabe:

Just my opinion. Population of the state has nothing to do with how desireable the location is though.

But tourism does. And Florida has year round visitors from all over the world.

You are right...Why would anybody want to live here? LOL

http://www.getintravel.com/adventure-travel-to-mia...

4/23/07

Exactly my point. Maybe because growing up, I vacationed in Florida, but it is just not a place I'd want to live.

Saturated with tourism and retirees.

It's not about being right or wrong; also tourism doesn't make it a desireable place to live either. That's why they vacation there instead of live there. But again, I'm not trying to say people shouldn't want to live there, it is just my opinion which I'm still not sure why you're so hung up on arguing with?

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

4/23/07

When you talk bonus comparison, the cost of living in H-town is so ridiculously low that you can realistically have a better life on the lower end of the scale than making top bucket in NYC. Rents are 50-60% less, restaurants are 20-30% less, a good night at a bar will cost you half as much and there are no state or city income taxes.

4/23/07

What kinds of bonuses have analysts in BB NR or energy groups in Houston typically expected in recent years? $70k base is solid enough for comfortable living in Houston, relative to how far that money would go on either of the coasts, but im curious as to what all-in comp tends to be for the aforementioned setting

4/23/07

streetwannabe:

Exactly my point. Maybe because growing up, I vacationed in Florida, but it is just not a place I'd want to live.

Saturated with tourism and retirees.

It's not about being right or wrong; also tourism doesn't make it a desireable place to live either. That's why they vacation there instead of live there. But again, I'm not trying to say people shouldn't want to live there, it is just my opinion which I'm still not sure why you're so hung up on arguing with?

Because of the way you phrased it: "Not sure why anyone in their sane mind would want to live in Florida".

That's a "Haters gonna hate" statement. Sounds like you are jealous of the quality of life we get to enjoy here.

4/23/07

You could say the same thing about NYC and I would likely be inclined to agree with you. Not sure why you are getting so upset about someone's random opinion about Florida on a finance blog.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

4/23/07

To everyone attempting to justify South Florida, i.e: Miami, as a i-banking hub, let me remind you that there is absolutely near to none investment banking here. Commercial banking? Everywhere. PWM/AM? Every building in downtown/brickell is definitely that. I-banking? Go to NYC.

I don't need to elaborate on Miami's lifestyle, really. It's fantastic. Great weather, exotic cars, beautiful women, one of the greater beaches... Downtown is not like NYC, but it's downtown. Nightlife is one of the best in the world. Quality of life is pretty great, and comes at a largely lower price compared to NYC.

4/23/07

Everyone saying "Dubai" is still living in 2006.

4/23/07

True that, boo. Abu Dhabi is where it's at now.

4/23/07

rbr37:

To everyone attempting to justify South Florida, i.e: Miami, as a i-banking hub, let me remind you that there is absolutely near to none investment banking here. Commercial banking? Everywhere. PWM/AM? Every building in downtown/brickell is definitely that. I-banking? Go to NYC.

I don't need to elaborate on Miami's lifestyle, really. It's fantastic. Great weather, exotic cars, beautiful women, one of the greater beaches... Downtown is not like NYC, but it's downtown. Nightlife is one of the best in the world. Quality of life is pretty great, and comes at a largely lower price compared to NYC.

Not entirely true as far as IB in South Florida. There are small boutiques scattered around South Florida who actually do quite well. The ones in Miami tend to focus on Latin America MM and in particular the regions under-served by BB like Central America, Caribbean, and the Andean region. In Fort Lauderdale/West Palm the focus is general US lower MM.

As far as the lifestyle, it really doesn't get any better than Miami, at least in the US.

4/23/07

NYC, without doubt!

4/23/07

those in houston, can you elaborate on your experience financially and otherwise living in houston? i am very interested in the energy industry but am from the midwest and don't like very hot weather. im sure i could get used to it but it would be a difficult transition. how hard is it to break into the IB energy industry there? do any top BBs have energy groups in houston (JP Morgan stands out in my mind)? what are the post-energy IB ops like?

houston, from what little i know about it, seems/looks like kind of a shithole--smoggy, sprawling, lots of illegal immigrants, etc. are any of these things true? is it a dirty city? are the nicer areas where young people live prohibitively expensive? what do you pay in rent and how far is your commute?

4/23/07

JoeReds001:

DO NOT MOVE TO HOUSTON IF YOU VALUE QUALITY OF LIFE AND YOUR SINGLE LIFESTYLE!

Houston sucks! It's a very lame city. The beaches are disgusting, the night life is a joke, and most people are naive bible beaters getting married by age 25. It's just a giant suburb of nothing. You must DRIVE everywhere, which may not sound like a big deal, but the the deal is that there is no cultural or community connection.

Everything is separated by income levels and cars. Outdoor spaces are few and far between. It is a very unwelcoming place for a young professional person. I left Houston for Miami and could not be happier!

Houston is ok if you are married with children and want a cheap cookie cutter McMansion.

Houston is not walkable AT ALL. There is no culture. There is no sense of community. It's just people making money and there's nothing to do other than eat, drink, and shop.

This is what I feared, can anyone else give their opinion on houston?

4/23/07

ChrisHansen:

JoeReds001:

DO NOT MOVE TO HOUSTON IF YOU VALUE QUALITY OF LIFE AND YOUR SINGLE LIFESTYLE!

Houston sucks! It's a very lame city. The beaches are disgusting, the night life is a joke, and most people are naive bible beaters getting married by age 25. It's just a giant suburb of nothing. You must DRIVE everywhere, which may not sound like a big deal, but the the deal is that there is no cultural or community connection.

Everything is separated by income levels and cars. Outdoor spaces are few and far between. It is a very unwelcoming place for a young professional person. I left Houston for Miami and could not be happier!

Houston is ok if you are married with children and want a cheap cookie cutter McMansion.

Houston is not walkable AT ALL. There is no culture. There is no sense of community. It's just people making money and there's nothing to do other than eat, drink, and shop.

This is what I feared, can anyone else give their opinion on houston?

Houston and Dallas are pretty much the same, although better IB in Houston (but more smog, humidity, so it's an even trade). I work at a middle market bank in Dallas. Live in Uptown, pay $785/mo on rent for an 1100 sq foot apt (with a roommate) where everyone comes over to watch the big games.

I net $1k a month, straight into my etrade account and ski two weeks each year, using my third week in the summer. Work/life balance is way bigger the further you get from NY, unless you work at a sweatshop like HLHZ. Not many big banks here, but we have TPG. JPM has a consumer/retail group here too. Job market is hardly competitive if you have good contacts/qualifications.

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett, 1836

4/23/07

TruePatriot:

ChrisHansen:
JoeReds001:

DO NOT MOVE TO HOUSTON IF YOU VALUE QUALITY OF LIFE AND YOUR SINGLE LIFESTYLE!

Houston sucks! It's a very lame city. The beaches are disgusting, the night life is a joke, and most people are naive bible beaters getting married by age 25. It's just a giant suburb of nothing. You must DRIVE everywhere, which may not sound like a big deal, but the the deal is that there is no cultural or community connection.

Everything is separated by income levels and cars. Outdoor spaces are few and far between. It is a very unwelcoming place for a young professional person. I left Houston for Miami and could not be happier!

Houston is ok if you are married with children and want a cheap cookie cutter McMansion.

Houston is not walkable AT ALL. There is no culture. There is no sense of community. It's just people making money and there's nothing to do other than eat, drink, and shop.

This is what I feared, can anyone else give their opinion on houston?

Houston and Dallas are pretty much the same, although better IB in Houston (but more smog, humidity, so it's an even trade). I work at a middle market bank in Dallas. Live in Uptown, pay $785/mo on rent for an 1100 sq foot apt (with a roommate) where everyone comes over to watch the big games.

I net $1k a month, straight into my etrade account and ski two weeks each year, using my third week in the summer. Work/life balance is way bigger the further you get from EY, unless you work at a sweatshop like HLHZ. Not many big banks here, but we have TPG. JPM has a consumer/retail group here too. Job market is hardly competitive if you have good contacts/qualifications.

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas" - Davy Crockett, 1836

Can you elaborate a bit more on the singles scene in Dallas/Houston?

4/23/07

Can you elaborate a bit more on the singles scene in Dallas/Houston?

[/quote]

Can't speak for Houston but in Dallas the nightlife is basically concentrated into the uptown area. I would assume it's decent, most of my single friends are so by choice, not for lack of potential mates.

4/23/07

can anyone comment on the energy industry exit ops in Houston, as well as what banks and groups are the biggest players there?

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

rbr37:

To everyone attempting to justify South Florida, i.e: Miami, as a i-banking hub, let me remind you that there is absolutely near to none investment banking here. Commercial banking? Everywhere. PWM/AM? Every building in downtown/brickell is definitely that. I-banking? Go to NYC.

I don't need to elaborate on Miami's lifestyle, really. It's fantastic. Great weather, exotic cars, beautiful women, one of the greater beaches... Downtown is not like NYC, but it's downtown. Nightlife is one of the best in the world. Quality of life is pretty great, and comes at a largely lower price compared to NYC.

Not entirely true as far as IB in South Florida. There are small boutiques scattered around South Florida who actually do quite well. The ones in Miami tend to focus on Latin America MM and in particular the regions under-served by BB like Central America, Caribbean, and the Andean region. In Fort Lauderdale/West Palm the focus is general US lower MM.

As far as the lifestyle, it really doesn't get any better than Miami, at least in the US.

Those small boutiques are garbage. They don't place anyone anywhere and have terrible deal flow.

4/23/07

ChrisHansen:

can anyone comment on the energy industry exit ops in Houston, as well as what banks and groups are the biggest players there?

Search function. There are hundreds of threads on this.

4/23/07

Macro Arbitrage:

Everyone saying "Dubai" is still living in 2006.

+1

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

ChrisHansen:

can anyone comment on the energy industry exit ops in Houston, as well as what banks and groups are the biggest players there?

Search function. There are hundreds of threads on this.

Trust me ive searched, most of the houston threads are dick measuring contests between houston and NYC and focused on lifestyle. There is a bit of info about PE shops but not much about exit ops and career progression. any insight would be appreciated...

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

Ibracadabra:
rbr37:

To everyone attempting to justify South Florida, i.e: Miami, as a i-banking hub, let me remind you that there is absolutely near to none investment banking here. Commercial banking? Everywhere. PWM/AM? Every building in downtown/brickell is definitely that. I-banking? Go to NYC.

I don't need to elaborate on Miami's lifestyle, really. It's fantastic. Great weather, exotic cars, beautiful women, one of the greater beaches... Downtown is not like NYC, but it's downtown. Nightlife is one of the best in the world. Quality of life is pretty great, and comes at a largely lower price compared to NYC.

Not entirely true as far as IB in South Florida. There are small boutiques scattered around South Florida who actually do quite well. The ones in Miami tend to focus on Latin America MM and in particular the regions under-served by BB like Central America, Caribbean, and the Andean region. In Fort Lauderdale/West Palm the focus is general US lower MM.

As far as the lifestyle, it really doesn't get any better than Miami, at least in the US.

Those small boutiques are garbage. They don't place anyone anywhere and have terrible deal flow.

Hater gonna hate...

Terrible deal flow? You sound sour buddy...Is it because you have no quality of life?

Who says people want to place somewhere else when they are already living in Paradise?

If you look at the background of most people in those boutiques, they mostly have top schools education and BB on their resume....But I guess I should take your word for it, right? ;-)

HATER

4/23/07

Houston exit ops are mostly energy focused PE firms and energy corp dev.

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

Hater gonna hate...

Terrible deal flow? You sound sour buddy...Is it because you have no quality of life?

Who says people want to place somewhere else when they are already living in Paradise?

If you look at the background of most people in those boutiques, they mostly have top schools education and BB on their resume....But I guess I should take your word for it, right? ;-)

HATER

Hater gonna hate... are you 12? Who hates Miami? Just because I said Miami IB sucks doesn't mean I hate Miami.

My quality of life is quite high. I work fewer hours than average.

Why don't you link some of these "quality" firms that you speak of? I haven't seen one legit Miami IB (unless Ray Jay or STHR has an office down there). Those boutiques are dogshit compared to the real boutiques or top MM firms (Blair, Baird, Lincoln, etc.).

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

Ibracadabra:

Hater gonna hate...

Terrible deal flow? You sound sour buddy...Is it because you have no quality of life?

Who says people want to place somewhere else when they are already living in Paradise?

If you look at the background of most people in those boutiques, they mostly have top schools education and BB on their resume....But I guess I should take your word for it, right? ;-)

HATER

Hater gonna hate... are you 12? Who hates Miami? Just because I said Miami IB sucks doesn't mean I hate Miami.

My quality of life is quite high. I work fewer hours than average.

Why don't you link some of these "quality" firms that you speak of? I haven't seen one legit Miami IB (unless Ray Jay or STHR has an office down there). Those boutiques are dogshit compared to the real boutiques or top MM firms (Blair, Baird, Lincoln, etc.).

None of the firms you mention have a presence in Miami and none of them have any business in Latin America. That's what happens when you employ people who have no ties to the region and cannot speak another language.

4/23/07

Anybody want talk about Philly? The times I have visited there seems like a legit city to live there. UPenn is my top choice for JD/Law. I need some insight. Thanks!

Greed is Good!

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

None of the firms you mention have a presence in Miami and none of them have any business in Latin America. That's what happens when you employ people who have no ties to the region and cannot speak another language.

Thanks for confirming my statements. In other words, you can't name one legit boutique or MM firm with a big Miami office. Miami IB is trash. Bunch of business brokers.

A few legit PE firms still remain, but quite a few went down over the past 5 years.

4/23/07

Honestly, LA or SF have a better quality of life than NYC and pays just as much. This includes: better weather, lower costs, and less neurotic people.

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

Ibracadabra:

None of the firms you mention have a presence in Miami and none of them have any business in Latin America. That's what happens when you employ people who have no ties to the region and cannot speak another language.

Thanks for confirming my statements. In other words, you can't name one legit boutique or MM firm with a big Miami office. Miami IB is trash. Bunch of business brokers.

A few legit PE firms still remain, but quite a few went down over the past 5 years.

I didn't confirm anything. None of those firms you mention have any deal flow in Latin America and Miami is the CAPITAL of Latin America, so quit hating.

4/23/07

jrt336:

Houston exit ops are mostly energy focused PE firms and energy corp dev.

what is energy-focused PE like compared to other PE firms? is comp as high? is houston as hard to break into as NYC? Im not at a southern target school like UT but I am from a top semi target/low target in the south/midwest.

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

peinvestor2012:
Ibracadabra:

None of the firms you mention have a presence in Miami and none of them have any business in Latin America. That's what happens when you employ people who have no ties to the region and cannot speak another language.

Thanks for confirming my statements. In other words, you can't name one legit boutique or MM firm with a big Miami office. Miami IB is trash. Bunch of business brokers.

A few legit PE firms still remain, but quite a few went down over the past 5 years.

I didn't confirm anything. None of those firms you mention have any deal flow in Latin America and Miami is the CAPITAL of Latin America, so quit hating.

LOL, that is entirely false. You have clearly never been to Sao. Several MM IB groups have expanded there as have the elite boutiques.

Once again, you can't name one legit firm in Miami. City is nothing when it comes to finance.

4/23/07

.

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

Ibracadabra:
peinvestor2012:
Ibracadabra:

None of the firms you mention have a presence in Miami and none of them have any business in Latin America. That's what happens when you employ people who have no ties to the region and cannot speak another language.

Thanks for confirming my statements. In other words, you can't name one legit boutique or MM firm with a big Miami office. Miami IB is trash. Bunch of business brokers.

A few legit PE firms still remain, but quite a few went down over the past 5 years.

I didn't confirm anything. None of those firms you mention have any deal flow in Latin America and Miami is the CAPITAL of Latin America, so quit hating.

LOL, that is entirely false. You have clearly never been to Sao. Several MM IB groups have expanded there as have the elite boutiques.

Once again, you can't name one legit firm in Miami. City is nothing when it comes to finance.

You clearly have some personal issues to embark on such battle but Sao Paulo is not the whole LatAm region. There are lots of other countries outside of Brazil in Latin America.

Please go back to my previous comment, copy and paste it here, and let me know which part you are not mentally capable to comprehend.

The firms you mention are completely irrelevant in Central America, Caribbean and Andean Countries. This is a fact.

4/23/07

Ibracadabra:

You clearly have some personal issues to embark on such battle but Sao Paulo is not the whole LatAm region. There are lots of other countries outside of Brazil in Latin America.

Please go back to my previous comment, copy and paste it here, and let me know which part you are not mentally capable to comprehend.

The firms you mention are completely irrelevant in Central America, Caribbean and Andean Countries. This is a fact.

Miami is not in those regions. So thanks for proving my point yet again. Second time you have admitted that Miami IB is garbage.

4/23/07

ChrisHansen:

jrt336:

Houston exit ops are mostly energy focused PE firms and energy corp dev.

what is energy-focused PE like compared to other PE firms? is comp as high? is houston as hard to break into as NYC? Im not at a southern target school like UT but I am from a top semi target/low target in the south/midwest.

Comp is generally in line with non-energy PE firms I believe. There are two in Houston that I've heard pay $1 million over 3 years. Not sure if that's true, but there are definitely firms that pay well. Houston would be easier to break into if you're already working in Texas, especially if you're working at a bank in Houston.

4/23/07

peinvestor2012:

Ibracadabra:

You clearly have some personal issues to embark on such battle but Sao Paulo is not the whole LatAm region. There are lots of other countries outside of Brazil in Latin America.

Please go back to my previous comment, copy and paste it here, and let me know which part you are not mentally capable to comprehend.

The firms you mention are completely irrelevant in Central America, Caribbean and Andean Countries. This is a fact.

Miami is not in those regions. So thanks for proving my point yet again. Second time you have admitted that Miami IB is garbage.

gnegnegnegne

Miami is practically and by all means the capital of LatAm. Your trying to deny this fact only makes you lose more and more credibility.

Enjoy Minnesota or whatever bumfuck you live in and let us enjoy the Colombianas, Venezuelanas and Cubanas of Miami.

4/23/07

Houston isn't for everyone, but I think it is the most economical place to live and do banking and still have opportunities coming out of it. Every one of the bbs have an energy group there, and they are often some of the top revenue producing groups at the bank. Hours are similar to NY, 75-95 on average for the top groups. Nightlife is alright. It's no NY and it sucks that everything closes at 2 am, but there are definitely very nice places and super fun places to go to as well. Bars are packed with college college students/young adults. Girls are prettier than in NY in my opinions. Guys are also nicer.

In terms of exit ops, I think you're better off in Houston actually, as long as you want to do energy. If you are at one of the top bb energy groups, you will get tons of deal flow, work on live deals, and get placed in a top PE fund (usually focusing on energy) in Houston or NY. Of my friends that just ended their second years, I would say half stayed in TX for PE and half went to NY/Calif. It's harder to place at a generalist fund but defintiely possible. I also have buddies working in the energy arms of Apollo/KKR/etc. Overall I think Houston is cheap, fairly fun, and extremely economical. But again, not for everyone

4/23/07

Feel free to pm me if you have specific questions about the groups/exit ops etc