Comments (72)

Jun 4, 2017

Development, Commercial Banking

Jun 5, 2017

Get some acquisition/ development experience, 5-10 years later open your own development shop, retire early

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Jun 5, 2017

easier said than done lol

Why are Development hours usually better than REPE?

Jun 5, 2017
Nousernamehere:

easier said than done lol

Why are Development hours usually better than REPE?

You are also making a lot less in development at non senior levels. Tbh,I'd do 10 years of PE and live somewhat frugally and invest the savings if your goal is to retire early @RE_FSU"

Jun 5, 2017

It's hard to generalize REPE vs Development hours. Really depends on the shop and your role. Development CAN have better work/life but it's in no way guaranteed. Both can get wild at crunch time.

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Jun 5, 2017

I would guess Development hours at a Related/Hines (as in much longer) are much different than say a boutique shop.

Jun 5, 2017

Even then it's a toss-up. Related/Hines have long hours, but a boutique shop might also have very few people, thus more work/responsibility per person, thus more time per week

Jun 7, 2017

Having worked at both a Related/Hines equivalent, and now a boutique development firm, I can say that the hours at the boutique can actually be much longer. All depends on the company though. We run a lean team, so there's always more hat's to wear than in a traditional role at a larger shop with more structure. Also spent a few years in a smallish family office. The work life balance there was incredible, mainly because the principals were extremely conservative and only wanted to do a couple of deals a year (which you can afford to do when you already have plenty of money, must be nice).

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Jun 5, 2017

Generally speaking I would lean towards the commercial banking field for work/life balance. I suppose brokerage once reach a certain status.

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Jan 14, 2019

This is correct. Senior RMs in my bank put in about +- 30 hours per week and make around 200-400k per year. We've got one guy who is about to close a 55MM perm loan on a SWAP. I suspect he will pull in over 500k this year so long as our industry doesn't come to a screeching halt.

Senior brokers can certainly do more but their income is less stable. The aforementioned RMs all have base salaries ranging from 100-170k.

Jun 5, 2017

Surprised no one has mentioned working at a family office.

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Jun 5, 2017

I would imagine there is little growth in a family office. Not knocking family offices but it would be advantageous to own one then work for one.

Jun 7, 2017

Yes. I currently work in a family office and it's very hard to move up in the ranks if you're analyst

Jun 5, 2017

How are hours as Analysts/Associates at LifeCos? (Pru, MetLife, etc)

Jun 7, 2017

i have a friend who worked at Pru, said he was pulling 80 hours a week

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Jun 7, 2017

I imagine the salary is lower than in IB. Working IB hours with sub-IB compensation = ultimate loser.

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Jun 5, 2017

Damn.. was this for PREI/PGIM or PMCC?

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Jun 7, 2017

trailer park supervisor

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Jun 7, 2017

I'm in AM at a lifeco, it's incredibly comfy. I never work more than 40 hours except for a few blue moons. Plus we work from home once a week which is basically like having Fridays off because hardly any borrowers respond to emails on Fridays so it's mostly spent playing video games while occasionally touching the touch pad to keep Skype for business showing I'm at my computer and keeping an ear out for new emails. But I'm planning/hoping on giving it up in another year to get into acquisitions/investments. Oh yeah, we're also going to an afternoon baseball game on a work day later this month for "team building"

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Jun 5, 2017

Welcome to the good liiife (T-Pain voice)

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Jun 5, 2017

Why would you ever leave that lifestyle?

Jun 7, 2017

Guap, skrilla, dolla dolla bills son. etc,

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Jun 7, 2017

Because acquisitions is more exciting, more interesting since it's at the property level, pays significantly better, and comes with more prestige. Also I don't feel challenged in AM since 60% of it is asking borrowers for financial statements. And I honestly feel like I'd be wasting my talent if I stayed too long. However I greatly value the qualitative experience it gives me in CRE that would allow me to get into investments.

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Jun 7, 2017

REIT AM is solid work/life from what I've seen. A lot of AM roles are pretty solid in terms of pay/work/life balance/opps, varies by firm though.

I'm shocked people mention development here... Development guys that are actually building shit are not posting only 40-50 hrs a week. Development guys who are not actually building shit might be, and will be toast in the near future if they don't get something going (could either be their own fault or just strategic).

Commercial banking is money as mentioned above.

I know a lot of commercial leasing guys who have great balance as well (if you're interested in that area).

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Jun 7, 2017
Swarles Barkley:

REIT AM is solid work/life from what I've seen. A lot of AM roles are pretty solid in terms of pay/work/life balance/opps, varies by firm though.

also, as unsexy as AM might appear, my guess (although I cannot confirm, could be TOTALLY wrong) is that you are less likely to be let go when dealflow slows.

Jun 5, 2017
prospie:

also, as unsexy as AM might appear, my guess (although I cannot confirm, could be TOTALLY wrong) is that you are less likely to be let go when dealflow slows.

No stats to back this up, but I would assume the same as well. Even if you're not building or buying anything new, the existing portfolio still needs to be run

Jun 8, 2017
prospie:
Swarles Barkley:

REIT AM is solid work/life from what I've seen. A lot of AM roles are pretty solid in terms of pay/work/life balance/opps, varies by firm though.

also, as unsexy as AM might appear, my guess (although I cannot confirm, could be TOTALLY wrong) is that you are less likely to be let go when dealflow slows.

I don't necessarily agree. Yeah, CMBS originators, for example, are getting laid off during a downturn, but the producers/underwriters at a lot of other lending shops may well turn into asset managers or workout. Hopefully not to offend or overly generalize, but a debt group's producers are generally going to be the "A" team, and a smart shop will keep them employed so you can turn production back on quickly.

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Jun 10, 2017

Confirmed via numerous phone calls with folks at top funds when I was hustling to get a job..."acq guys are the first to get let go, developers that aren't well capitalized get crunched, but AM hiring picks up as firms try to maximize the returns on their existing assets since no one is buying"

Jun 9, 2017

Best work life balance is inheriting $20m+ from your dad, creating a few LLCs, hiring a property manager and leasing broker and checking in with them every week or two to see how your portfolio is doing.

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Jun 5, 2017

Yeah I think this is everyone's dream who gets into RE, but im talking about FT jobs working for other people.

Jun 29, 2017

Amen. Could take things into your own hands more and actively manage the acquisitions/management of LLCs with underlying assets. 1031 sales into new acquisitions to avoid cap gains. Might just be me but if I was given $20M+ I'd want to be in control of everything and not have a prop manager / broker running my biz.

Jun 13, 2017

best balance imo is middle market pe shop in So Cal.

Know a few friends. Personally I think it narrows the scope of their career options, but can't deny it's very cushy and great pay. just don't see a ton of growth for them.

Jul 3, 2017

It sort of depends on your goals. Do you like working? Would you continue to work if you had enough to retire?

I'll preface this with the caveat that I love what I'm doing, so I don't view my job as a necessary evil that I need to do in order to live my real life on the weekends. I'm a developer with a small team in the DC area, and I would say that development has the best work/life balance I've found in my career. In the past I did consulting, sales, design, and research in various markets.

The thing that I like most about development is that you are essentially your own boss starting at the DM level (yeah, yeah, I know that everyone has a boss, but at least in my shop no one is supervising you in your day-to-day activities). I honestly couldn't tell you how many hours I work each week. It's probably a lot of hours, but I can work from home, from a construction site, from a coffee shop... and as long as the work gets done everyone is happy. Doesn't even feel like work half the time when you can 1) manage your own schedule/work, and 2) build things in real life instead of sitting in front of a computer.

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Jan 13, 2019

Hello,
I am a recent college graduate looking to break into the development side of commercial real estate. How did you initially get your feet wet in commercial real estate development?
Thank you!

Jul 3, 2017

I started out as a consultant, and was hired by one of my developer clients to execute projects.

Aug 8, 2017

Adding on to this conversation, I have been working in CRE appraisal in NYC for almost a year. I never really considered appraisal as a career, it was more of a way for me to break in the CRE industry in NYC. Prior to appraisal, I worked 2 years in IB, but in unique middle office type roles. I really enjoy CRE and that is why I made the switch.

At this point in my life, work/life balance is important to me and that is how I found this thread. Based on what people are saying, it appears that Asset Management offers a good balance, generally speaking. Acquisitions/development is an avenue I may want to explore further on down the road, but for now, I'd like to actually have time to enjoy the city and my youth while it lasts. So my first set of questions are:

What are some family offices in NYC that invest in real estate?
Everyone knows the big REITs in NYC, but anyone have suggestions for lesser-known ones whom I could potentially reach out to?
The big Lifecos are known, anyone know some others in NYC who lend in CRE?

Commercial banking is another option I'm exploring. While some people on here have said it provides a good work/life balance, these are just generalizations. Based on what I've been reading lately (glassdoor, various articles, etc), you could get worked hard as a credit analyst. Obviously this varies by bank.

Comments and recommendations are much appreciated! Thanks!

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Jun 5, 2017

On your Credit Analyst question..I think it depends on the firm. For example, I highly doubt a Credit Analyst at a top lender at say a JP or WF is leaving at 5pm. An Analyst at say a MM/Community bank or lower tier LifeCo will prob have a good work life balance.

Aug 8, 2017
Nousernamehere:

On your Credit Analyst question..I think it depends on the firm. For example, I highly doubt a Credit Analyst at a top lender at say a JP or WF is leaving at 5pm. An Analyst at say a MM/Community bank or lower tier LifeCo will prob have a good work life balance.

Right, understandable. Any banks or lower tier LifeCos that come to mind right away?

Aug 9, 2017

What are your hours like in appraisal?

Aug 8, 2017
miketython:

What are your hours like in appraisal?

I'm still a 'trainee' on a base salary. But after a year is when you go on fee split and that's when the hours can get very erratic. 60-70 hours a week isn't uncommon (working weekends). Right now there is still the occasional longer night (until 8 or 9 at times). But typically it's 9 to 6.......for now, won't last long

Aug 9, 2017

.

Jun 5, 2017

The balance between work and life

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Aug 9, 2017

.

Jun 5, 2017

You'd get hired rather quickly by a brokerage firm doing lease comps. Most ex-lawyers in CRE I know though are all brokers or work for brokerage agencies.

Dec 15, 2017

I am sorry what are the positions doing lease comps? How do I get into that? I am in New York. Please advise. What are the salaries?

Jun 7, 2017

I have definitely seen lawyers do more than become brokers. what kinda RE law exactly? What specifically do your clients do and how big are they?

Dec 15, 2017

It was a couple of years of commercial leasing and around four years of commercial mortgages. I was working mainly with landlords and lenders, a bit with tenants and borrowers

Dec 15, 2017

Too bad you do not have transaction experience because you would be great for acquisitions.

Try to get an asset management gig. Great hours and your leasing and financing experience would lend iself well.

Try to learn some structuring (eg fund structures, RE deal structuring) and you could have a lot of other options.

I think the lease comps comment up top was a joke. At least I hope it was.

Dec 15, 2017

Thank you. Not sure how to go about getting asset management positions for someone like me. Seems like you need inside connection.

Jun 5, 2017

For what it's worth, being a property manager sounds like a horribly boring job. I wouldn't want to do it

Dec 15, 2017

Assest management does not equal property management

Jun 5, 2017
Blankster:

Assest management does not equal property management

Ah, reading comprehension while working failure haha

Dec 15, 2017

You don't want to become a property manager with a top-tier law degree. AM could be a good fit. The people working in AM at my office are generally in between 9-10 and out at 6-7. Weekend work is minimal since many of their assignments are due monthly at a relatively set time (capital calls, etc).

Dec 15, 2017

Where are these work life balance RE AM jobs? What companies in NY should I look at? How do I get in if I don't have finance background?

Dec 15, 2017

If I was you I would look into commercial real estate property tax litigation/mediation. I don't know how the system works up there, but you should do some research and figure it out.

The amount of money our property tax attorneys get for the minimal amount of work they do is pretty insane.

Dec 15, 2017
lawtobusiness:

Hi all,
I urgently need help. I am a lawyer with several years of experience in real estate law trying to get out of law to work on the business side. I have excellent undergraduate record with minor in business and solid record from a first tier Law School. But I've been out of school for many years. Don't know if that matters. I don't want to be a broker and I need a decent salary. I have a small child so I am looking for a position with work-life balance. Are there positions like that? What would they be? How should I go about getting into that? Thanks so much.

Freddie Mac definitely has a corporate office in New York City. When I worked for them in their McLean, VA office lawyers for them were making $140,000 or $150,000 working 40 hours a week. I'm sure there is a COLA adjustment for the New York market. Pretty much the easiest, cushiest real estate law job ever. When I was there 5 years ago their legal division was, however, Virginia-based.

I don't think Fannie Mae currently has a New York office. DEFINITELY look into Freddie Mac jobs in New York.

Jan 15, 2019

At least in Europe: pension funds, large institutional investors (i.e. insurances) and family offices.

Jan 17, 2019

the best combination of work/life/pay balance comes from the LP side, in my experience... try a major LP like CCPIB... solid pay (and a high base salary), very relaxed work/life.... very strong job stability, upward mobility, etc.