"Black Players That Were Uncle Toms"

A great response from Grant Hill regarding Jalen Rose's comment that Duke recruited only black players that were Uncle Toms.

Some of you would enjoy this read. Mad respect for Grant Hill. Says exactly what was needed to be said...

NYT: Grant Hill’s Response to Jalen Rose

 

Jalen did one of those discussions with Skip Bayless today, and said that that's actually how he felt when he was a 17 year old recruit. He makes a good point about Duke: on the whole, they recruit middle-class and rich kids, and they very rarely sign someone who grew up in poverty or in a one-parent household. That's not a race thing, either; the white kids on the team are pretty well-off, too. I don't think it's a problem, though; part of the reason why guys like Kyle Singler stick around for four years (and make Coach K's teams so good) is because they're from families with two college-educated parents who expect their kids to get a degree.

Jalen's just too stupid to use the word "Uncle Tom" correctly. An Uncle Tom is someone who sells out his race, and it's a horrendous insult. Just because Duke didn't want poor kids doesn't make the rich kids Uncle Toms. If anyone's to blame (and I don't think there is), it's Duke, not the guys like Grant Hill who leap at the chance to play for a great coach at a great school.

One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.
 
Nobama88:

And give me a break on the Duke not wanting poor kids bull. it has nothing to do with Duke not wanting "poor kids". Its that these 'poor kids' that are on Kansas or Ohio State aren't able to pass the ACT. I am not sure how Duke is to blame because they want a great basketball team and at the same time not compromise the strong academics there.

I'll take this one step further. Coach K is the best coach in college basketball. Plain and simple his record speaks for itself. Coach K simply needs intelligent kids to play in his complex system. It just so happens that intelligent, or the hardest working, recruits tend to have a similar upbringing. I HATE Coach K and Dook with a serious passion but I do think Jalen was a little out of line.

 
michaelj901:
Nobama88:

And give me a break on the Duke not wanting poor kids bull. it has nothing to do with Duke not wanting "poor kids". Its that these 'poor kids' that are on Kansas or Ohio State aren't able to pass the ACT. I am not sure how Duke is to blame because they want a great basketball team and at the same time not compromise the strong academics there.

I'll take this one step further. Coach K is the best coach in college basketball. Plain and simple his record speaks for itself. Coach K simply needs intelligent kids to play in his complex system. It just so happens that intelligent, or the hardest working, recruits tend to have a similar upbringing. I HATE Coach K and Dook with a serious passion but I do think Jalen was a little out of line.

You clearly have no understanding of basketball, American education, or both, if you think an ACT score is at all correlated with the ability to play a particular system. Standardized test scores and GPAs are a function of upbringing, with innate (logical) intelligence playing some small role. The ability to understand how to play a sport is a function of upbringing, with innate (spatial) intelligence playing some small role. Of course, the requisite upbringings and intelligences are very different for the two skill sets. If you have two parents who expect you to spend four hours reading a day, you're probably going to do pretty well on your SAT. If you have one parent who doesn't know where you are all day, so you hang out and play basketball, you are probably going to have a pretty good understanding of how to play basketball. If you know how to play basketball, you are probably not going to be overwhelmed by Duke's system just because you have a low ACT score, or because some anonymous asshole thinks you have a shitty work ethic because your parents were poor.

 

Exactly Duke wants class acts that can perform in the classroom as well as the court. I mean you've seen how the "fab five" acted on the court, can you imagine that at Duke?!?

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1man2nv:
Exactly Duke wants class acts that can perform in the classroom as well as the court. I mean you've seen how the "fab five" acted on the court, can you imagine that at Duke?!?

Maybe I am not a class act, but I loved the Fab Five and how they acted on the court. I love players that show passion and talk trash. I guess I am ghetto.

Having said that, I liked Grant Hill's response.

 
prinmemo:
1man2nv:
Exactly Duke wants class acts that can perform in the classroom as well as the court. I mean you've seen how the "fab five" acted on the court, can you imagine that at Duke?!?

Maybe I am not a class act, but I loved the Fab Five and how they acted on the court. I love players that show passion and talk trash. I guess I am ghetto.

Having said that, I liked Grant Hill's response.

Don't get me wrong they were very exciting from what I can see, i'm saying that's not what duke looks for, doesn't mean other teams don't like that.
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prinmemo:
1man2nv:
Exactly Duke wants class acts that can perform in the classroom as well as the court. I mean you've seen how the "fab five" acted on the court, can you imagine that at Duke?!?

Maybe I am not a class act, but I loved the Fab Five and how they acted on the court. I love players that show passion and talk trash. I guess I am ghetto.

Liking the Fab Five doesn't make you a non-class-act. Accusing Grant Hill of being an Uncle Tom because he acts differently than you does...

 

If that's how Jalen felt as a 17-year-old kid, then fine. He was simply conveying that in the documentary. He was resentful of more privileged kids who came from more affluent backgrounds. Yeah, it's stupid to think that rich black kids aren't somehow black, but I think it's understandable how Jalen felt at the time growing up on the mean streets of Detroit, even though it's a blatantly misguided view.

Anyway, I sincerely doubt he doesn't know any better now that he's in his late 30's.

 

Calling a black man Uncle Tom is pretty damn low....Grant Hill's response made Jalen look like a clown.

I watched the doc the other night and I thought it was alright. I like Jalen, Fab Five and their swagger, but to portray them as some kind of freedom fighters and to place them on the same level as black athletes who came before them (Jackie Robinson, Ali, Georgetown Bball of the 80s is erroneous.

I can understand why Jalen felt that way when he was 17, but I don't buy his argument that he has different feelings about Duke as a grown man. He contradicted himself on 1st & 10.

Watch around 1:35 "Do you think they would recruit you today?" Jalen "They would recruit my kids." http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6224395

Coach K doesn't give two shits if his players come from the Bronx or Bronxville. He wants guys who are going to stay 4 years (which the Fab Five clearly didn't intend to do) and guys who can compete academically at Duke. It's pretty difficult for a kid who comes from the inner city of Detroit to meet those standards.

 
Dr Barnaby Fulton:
Coach K doesn't give two shits if his players come from the Bronx or Bronxville. He wants guys who are going to stay 4 years (which the Fab Five clearly didn't intend to do) and guys who can compete academically at Duke. It's pretty difficult for a kid who comes from the inner city of Detroit to meet those standards.
Exactly. If you notice, DUKE doesn't get the TOP recruits (lets be honest 90% of the top recruits and not smart), however they get great ones they can build a team with.
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1man2nv:
Dr Barnaby Fulton:
Coach K doesn't give two shits if his players come from the Bronx or Bronxville. He wants guys who are going to stay 4 years (which the Fab Five clearly didn't intend to do) and guys who can compete academically at Duke. It's pretty difficult for a kid who comes from the inner city of Detroit to meet those standards.
Exactly. If you notice, DUKE doesn't get the TOP recruits (lets be honest 90% of the top recruits and not smart), however they get great ones they can build a team with.

Yeah, but they did this year in Doc Rivers' kid. However, if any of you think that Duke is getting basketball players that are much smarter than other schools, you're probably somewhat mistaken. In 2008, the difference between UNC and Duke players' average SATs was just over 50 points, according to this article. Make no mistake, Duke makes serious concessions to their academic standards for normal students. That said, this discussion is generally right, maybe Duke doesn't have a bunch of brainiacs on their team, but they also don't recruit kids that are going to get arrested either, so kudos to them in that regard.

http://tinyurl.com/636gxsh

 
Dr Barnaby Fulton:
but to portray them as some kind of freedom fighters and to place them on the same level as black athletes who came before them (Jackie Robinson, Ali, Georgetown Bball of the 80s is erroneous.

What? You mean wearing baggy shorts isn't the same as losing your Gold Metal, lol?

P.S. I'm listening to the Bobby Hurley interview right now, and Duke actually recruited Chris Webber, lol. I guess Jalen is calling his co-member of the Fab Five an Uncle Tom...

 
econ:
Dr Barnaby Fulton:
but to portray them as some kind of freedom fighters and to place them on the same level as black athletes who came before them (Jackie Robinson, Ali, Georgetown Bball of the 80s is erroneous.

What? You mean wearing baggy shorts isn't the same as losing your Gold Metal, lol?

P.S. I'm listening to the Bobby Hurley interview right now, and Duke actually recruited Chris Webber, lol. I guess Jalen is calling his co-member of the Fab Five an Uncle Tom...

They brought that up, when they interviewed Jalen Rose on ESPN last night. The only 2 detroit players Dukes recruited were Webber, and Shane Battier
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Great article!!!! However, the article in my opinion wasn't needed.

Jalen stated that is how he felt when he was 18 years old. However, now as an adult he sees the bigger picture and wished he had the same opportunities Grant Hill's parent provided him. I think Grant Hill should have said/wrote this article a long time ago. Don't wait for instances to occur to demand justice. You should demand respect at all times. Every young black person knows this growing up and moving forward in a constructive way...

 
MMBinNC:
Sad that Rose considers black people with middle class or higher backgrounds Uncle Toms. Also, one of the few SBs given to a UNC student by me haha.

He isn't the only black person that thinks like that...thats why its hard for black people to stand out because..they are so worried about how there peers are going to view them... getting an education isn't "cool" in the black community generally. Look at what Bill Cosby said look at what happened to him.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 

UGA football has like 5 players arrested or kicked off for some criminal activity every year!

You give me a gift? *BAM* Thank you note! You invite me somewhere? *POW* RSVP! You do me a favor? *WHAM* Favor returned! Do not test my politeness.
 

It's no secret that Duke makes significant academic leeway for its basketball recruits (and football, to a lesser extent). They will always take in a couple recruits that meets minimum NCAA academic standards. They have also had their fair share of "one-and-done"-ers such as Elton Brand and Luol Deng. All that being said, the day they start recruiting players with character issues and have them get arrested, will be the day that I stop rooting for them.

 

I don't know whether some people on this board are stupid, dumb or both. Jalen said that was how he "felt" as in past tense, as in how he felt as an 18 year old kid. Geez. Doesn't anyone actually listen?

When I put that into perspective, Grant Hill was somewhat out of line. Enough already with enacting the blanket defense that when someone attacks you, they attack your family and the whole community. I think the purpose of his message was intended for current young black kids who are aspiring collegiate athletes and think that there are some schools who will not recruit them because of their economic hardship and working class upbringing; a very important point to make. But don't share your family genealogy with me and pontificate about related bull shit. That's taking it too far. Now Jalen look somewhat like an asshole and that shouldn't be the case.

I refuse to give any credence to Grant Hill's "editorial piece". A tweet saying how he understood that's all in the past and then giving some positive words of encouragement to young black athletes regarding the aforementioned would have sufficed. But what else did you expect? Typical Duke bullshit.

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

Why is Jalen so offended by Duke recruiting "a certain type of player"? The Fab Five program would never have recruited a Christian Laetner, Kyle Singler, etc. -- a lot of programs recruit "a certain type of player." Right?

 
Nobama88:
Brady Hoke:
grant hill's an idiot, and so are most of you that have responded to his article thus far. jalen and the others made it very, very, very clear - that's how they felT (emphasis, past tense) when they were poor, uneducated 17-18 year old kids.

and why didn't duke recruit jalen rose? - one of the top 10 players in the country.

Again, not getting the point. It was less about Jalen and more about the obvious attitude that the black community has toward educated, two parent family black kids. It was Jalens thought when he was 17, fine but there are tons of other 17 year olds TODAY who think the EXACT same thing - If you are an educated black kid from a good family you are a 'uncle tom'.

your right there are. Ive visited places in the south before and have been asked "Why do you talk white?" (because I use proper english) or dress white? (because I like polo's and sperry's) rather then baggy jeans, etc........all I can think is what the hell? But there is a divide in the black community.
You give me a gift? *BAM* Thank you note! You invite me somewhere? *POW* RSVP! You do me a favor? *WHAM* Favor returned! Do not test my politeness.
 
Brady Hoke:
and why didn't duke recruit jalen rose? - one of the top 10 players in the country.

Because he couldn't read and wanted money to play.

It really backfired, too, I bet Duke is just kicking themselves now!

You can always tell a Michigan man, you just can't tell him much.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 
Best Response

The whole "Uncle Tom, you're a sellout" think as a successful, motivated, driven black kid gets really old. It's this self-repeating cycle of finger-pointing. A young black kid wants to do well in school, but that's not cool, so his ass gets bullied. One of two things happens: he joins the crowd of pants-sagging kids dealing on the corner talking about rims and Louis V bags all day, or he continues in the face of adversity.

Then when he actually makes something of himself and chooses to associate with people who are more like him (driven, motivated, successful, responsible), he's a sellout because he isn't being "true to his roots." Roots are exactly that though, ROOTS. It's where you're from, it is not where you are now. So if all of a sudden this kid in the example finds himself in a good school with a bunch of affluent kids (read: white) and now enjoys opportunity and privilege, he's now "selfish" too for not handing it all back to the poor guys who want the handout.

Trust me, talking from experience, it's absolutely pathetic. It's the easy way out, it's putting a label on someone else because you're too lazy to turn the focus inward and see what in you is limiting how well you do.

All that being said, did no one else notice in the documentary how he kept referring to that in the past tense? It's clear, at least to me, that he was expressing how he felt THEN, not now, and his apology over Twitter was simply a mature move to explain his regret for his immaturity at that point in life.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Heres the problem, Jalen chose poor wording to describe his point. And I dont believe Grant Hill is an uncle tom but I do believe that Duke especially when it comes to minority players has a tendancy to select those that fit a particular back ground. I dont believe the school should let in people with character issues or anything of the like or poor student. But should we not find it ironic that Grant Hills parents were not just educated but they were of very high status. Or that many of their minority players come from preps school that even if you were a good student from an inner city your parent(s) could not afford to sen you to. Yes it is a acedemic school and they should want to represent there school with Student Atheletes. The overall thing is that there is a demeanor that comes with a large group of individuals at Duke which perpetuates Jalens type of thinking. Additionally I would like for you all to read the letter written by Elton Brand to a Duke fan that explains the type of personality that resonates at Duke and why individual who have attended feel a sort of way about the attitude of many individuals at Duke. http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/elton-brand-duke-letter/

 
WallstD1:
Or that many of their minority players come from preps school that even if you were a good student from an inner city your parent(s) could not afford to sen you to.

I'm pretty sure they give out athletic scholarships, as many kids from poor families still wind up at prep schools. It seems Duke is not so much obsessed with prep schools, as they are with a certain type of player/personality fit.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/economics>econ</a></span>:
WallstD1:
Or that many of their minority players come from preps school that even if you were a good student from an inner city your parent(s) could not afford to sen you to.

I'm pretty sure they give out athletic scholarships, as many kids from poor families still wind up at prep schools. It seems Duke is not so much obsessed with prep schools, as they are with a certain type of player/personality fit.

I understand they have scholarships but if you were to look at the players they normally recruit there is a similarity. And like you said and I said they look for a particular type of player/personality. Now I'm not saying that personality should be one of character issues or troubled back grounds but lets call a spade a spade. i mean we all work in finance here we know there are core and non core schools well Duke doesn't recruit non core minority athletes. Little known fact is that Duke recruited Chris Webber who went to one of the best prep schools in Michigan so what does that say about their holy recruiting.

 

Or try being the one who voluntarily leaves the middle class environment to enter the hood. It's fucking nuts the pressure people have to fit in by being NOT smart, literally the Fresh Prince episode where Will's telling someone about how he used to have to carry his books down the street in a pizza box so he didn't look strange couldn't be truer. If you don't demean women, talk about the new 'Lacs, rims, push or smoke copious quantities of dro, or thug your thread game out with jeans and Polo buttoned all the way to the neck, you ain't black.

Bill Cosby couldn't be more right. Or, if you actually want an intellectual challenge, read Juan Williams' "Enough."

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
A Posse Ad Esse:
Thank you, this is something I want to read very much and will reply when I have.

The author, Roland Fryer, has an incredibly interesting story/background. Look him up on google, youtube, etc.

 

While I think the Uncle Tom comment crosses the line, I can see where Jalen was coming from. When I was playing basketball in high school, I lived in a rough neighborhood and our team had this us-against the world anytime we played away games. Everyone, players and coaches, would make fun of the goofy white dudes with long hair we would play against and black kids would be called oreos. We got into countless fights when we played away and ultimately never did as well as we should have because someone would blow a fuse at some terrible call every game (the refs hated us).

We absolutely hated certain teams for a lot of the same reasons Jalen hated Duke. I somewhat dislike Duke for those reasons although I can't help but respect their success.

 

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I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

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