Living at home while an analyst?

I am curious to hear what people think if a fellow analyst told you they live at home.

I am thinking about living at home next year because I would save a SHIT TON of money, but at the same time I feel kind of loserish for being in my 20s with a good job and living at home still.

Buttttt... I would save an additional $20K EASY by living at home and I think that may outweigh the loserish stereotype of living with the parents still.

Thoughts?

 

You don't have much of a life outside of work as an analyst so why not.

Save bank and get a bitchin' place when you're an associate.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
 

Yeah but also commuting on late nights is absolutely terrible.

Also, what city are you working in? If it's a decent city, live there for the experience while you're young also. Sometimes if you and fellow analysts can get out early enough and they want to grab a drink and what not, it's a bitch having to think about getting home.

 
Nobama88:
I am curious to hear what people think if a fellow analyst told you they live at home.

I am thinking about living at home next year because I would save a SHIT TON of money, but at the same time I feel kind of loserish for being in my 20s with a good job and living at home still.

Buttttt... I would save an additional $20K EASY by living at home and I think that may outweigh the loserish stereotype of living with the parents still.

Thoughts?

The extra money is not worth the bullshit you'll have to deal with from your parents. The talking, the questions... Banking is depressing enough, living at home might push you over the edge.

 

Depends on how good your relationship with your parents is. Case by case, but overall a great idea

 
MrV:
nontarget:
good point. if you commute is more than 20-30min it is going to be rough but still doable.

You can nap on the train

That's the good thing about trains, but less flexibility of a car and if you live in a region with seasonal weather, the snow will eventually screw you over with delays.

Don't feel too bad about it. Household sizes are increasing, and an increasing amount of graduates move back home.

 

It is not about the relationship with your parents, it is all about the commute and how far home is from your job. I would say anything longer than 45 minutes desk to door. Sure you save a lot of money and this is something I did when I first started, but eventually you need to move into the city. Commuting definitely affects your work--instead of staying that extra hour to put in the extra 10% you have to catch a train.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

I'd definitely lay down boundaries with the parents as well.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

it's all about tradeoffs...

you won't be eating a lot at home anyway and what are you going to do on weekends?

plus train tickets each way aren't free and you can sublet a place for about 1k a month

if your parents live on Long Island I doubt it'd be worth the value proposition

 

Could get a parking spot in NY and drive in to eliminate the train schedule piece. Of course you could be so fatigued it would be dangerous to drive. It's def a nice idea. Id say why not give it a go and if after a month its not worth it, move out.

 
av8ter:
Could get a parking spot in NY and drive in to eliminate the train schedule piece. Of course you could be so fatigued it would be dangerous to drive. It's def a nice idea. Id say why not give it a go and if after a month its not worth it, move out.

You have to be joking. There are MDs that don't drive into the city because of how expensive it is. Average parking spot in NYC is a little over $300 a month.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 
Gekko21:
av8ter:
Could get a parking spot in NY and drive in to eliminate the train schedule piece. Of course you could be so fatigued it would be dangerous to drive. It's def a nice idea. Id say why not give it a go and if after a month its not worth it, move out.

You have to be joking. There are MDs that don't drive into the city because of how expensive it is. Average parking spot in NYC is a little over $300 a month.

Yea, I know that. And an apartment is what? 5x that? It solves the train problem and still saves money.

 
Best Response

I think people have given some pretty decent variables so far, but there are three crucial inputs to the equation that are missing. You should be thinking of it as follows:


1.) Acknowledging the very real possibility that the distance, and thereby the time it takes to get to the office, has the potential to knock you into a lower bonus bucket than you otherwise would have been in (ex: your MD calls you into the office "ASAP" at least 12 times and it takes you 45+ minutes every time; you will be noticed), you must also factor the expected value of the marginal hit to your bonus.

2.) If the lack of mobility from (1) is severe enough, it can get you fired, thus you must also consider the expected value of all salary and bonus potentially lost as costs.

3.) If you keep your job, but are in a noticeably lower ranking amongst your other analysts, you must take the expected value of the discounted marginal exit opportunities as costs. Remember that most PE firms interview analysts before the end of their first year, so moving into the city after the fact may not come into play here.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 
Nouveau Richie:
I think people have given some pretty decent variables so far, but there are three crucial inputs to the equation that are missing. You should be thinking of it as follows:

1.) Acknowledging the very real possibility that the distance, and thereby the time it takes to get to the office, has the potential to knock you into a lower bonus bucket than you otherwise would have been in (ex: your MD calls you into the office "ASAP" at least 12 times and it takes you 45+ minutes every time; you will be noticed), you must also factor the expected value of the marginal hit to your bonus.

2.) If the lack of mobility from (1) is severe enough, it can get you fired, thus you must also consider the expected value of all salary and bonus potentially lost as costs.

3.) If you keep your job, but are in a noticeably lower ranking amongst your other analysts, you must take the expected value of the discounted marginal exit opportunities as costs. Remember that most PE firms interview analysts before the end of their first year, so moving into the city after the fact may not come into play here.

You clearly don't understand the economics of the "marginal impact to your bonus." After tax, the difference between absolute top bucket and the lower end of the range ends up being ~5k (with a substantial difference in effort expended)... he would be saving 20k by living at home... so that argument is not very well thought out. The real answer is to do it if you think it's the best move for you. Yes, it will be a more difficult commute and it will suck for one-off requests, which is why I wouldn't do it. But people are so obsessed over bonus numbers, and in the grand scheme of things the only thing they should care about is how that is going to affect their recruiting process should you want to move to the buyside. You'll quickly learn that the extra 5k you MIGHT get... huge emphasis on MIGHT, is not worth the MAJOR increase in effort you're going to have to put in versus your peers. When you look at it from an opportunity cost framework, it doesn't present itself as a strong case -- at the Analyst level... at the Associate level when the bonus range can vary by upwards of 20-30 thousand or more, then it is a completely different story. Only look at the impact to bonus in terms of how it's going to affect your future plans, otherwise the catalyst for motivation to work harder is just not there, and it's too depressing.

 

It really depends on where your parents live. If you are working in NYC, but your parents live in NJ it will be a huge hassle unless they live in one of the towns on the river (Hoboken, Weehawken, etc). If that is the case, commute will be easier than some places actually within the city (way uptown or downtown) assuming work in midtown.

Also, how will you get home on those 2 am nights?

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger
 

I'm also planning on doing this (just for SA gig though). I'm debating a few alternatives on how to commute (not in NYC) - train, bus, drive.. The bus would be most convenient because I can catch it about 5 minutes from where I'll be living, the only problem is that it doesn;t run very late. Banks typically cover cabs if you're there past 8, right? But what if we're talking $50 cab rides nearly every night?

 
Golfer:
I'm also planning on doing this (just for SA gig though). I'm debating a few alternatives on how to commute (not in NYC) - train, bus, drive.. The bus would be most convenient because I can catch it about 5 minutes from where I'll be living, the only problem is that it doesn;t run very late. Banks typically cover cabs if you're there past 8, right? But what if we're talking $50 cab rides nearly every night?

I know someone who did this to westchester and it was no problem...

 

Living at home isn't too bad if home is just in the outer boroughs (brooklyn, queens) or nearby nj. Commute into the city by subway might add on 15-30 more minutes than if you lived in manhattan. Is saving that extra time worth $1-2k of rent?

 

I will be staying at home for 5-6 months when I start my FT position this summer. My parents live about 45 minute commute from my workplace. I also work in S&T so I need to be in by 6am and get out by 7-8PM.

There is nothing wrong with living at home temporarily to save up some cash. What is wrong is living paycheck to paycheck which is what a lot of people 1st year out do. They are essentially broke until they get their 1st year bonus. In this economic climate, I would rather not depend on that bonus and instead save up 4-5 months of living expense (plus sign in + relo) by commuting. Trust me, you are making the smart move.

The only advice I have which I will be following is: 1. Make sure your clothes are ready in the morning so you can get out quick. 2. Keep an overnight bag in the office/friends apt. Get a gym membership near your office so in case you end up staying the city (you went out/work bogged you down), you can shower and look fresh the next day.

 

Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..

"I don't know how to explain to you that you should care about other people."
 
onemanwolfpack:
Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..

Not at all, especially in Manhattan. If your parents have the room, and you chip in some money for food/utilities, it makes a lot of sense. Really, Americans are pretty unique with how we expect kids to move out at 18.

If you have a wife and kid, clearly it is a different story. I'd argue you probably shouldn't have had a kid if housing is a financial burden. Even then, if your parents are complete ballers with their own floor, then maybe it wouldn't be a horrible idea if it wasn't an imposition...

I guess I will never be used to Manhattan rents; I would resort to just about any means to eliminate that expense. If you work in Dallas and live with your parents, then, yea, it is probably not so acceptable.

Besides, the longer you live at home, the more you save, and the sooner you can actually buy your own place. With housing where it is now, buying early is pretty high on my priority list.

 
onemanwolfpack:
Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..
what kinda slippery slope idiocy is this lol

def. do it if your parents life in manhattan and if they rnt gna give you too much shit about the hours you work/ interfer in your life in general

 
leveredarb:
onemanwolfpack:
Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..
what kinda slippery slope idiocy is this lol

def. do it if your parents life in manhattan and if they rnt gna give you too much shit about the hours you work/ interfer in your life in general

What kind of parent complains about the hours you are working? WTF? they aren't your wife.

********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 
onemanwolfpack:
Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..

Depends on an individual basis. Big part is your culture. Haven't noticed my parents this happy since I told them I will stay at home for a few months. Its common for people in my culture to stay at home for quite a while, I am just doing it till I have my emergency savings set up. In addition, there isn't a parent's money/my money divide I see amongst my other friends. At the end of the day, my parent's retirement package is me. Its expected that I support them when they retire just as they support a large extended family as well. Its the same case for a lot of your asian/indian colleagues as well which makes the concept of living at home absolutely fine.

 

Only if your parents live in Manhattan.

If not, get your own place.

********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 

Once you've lived on your own, you can never move back. Even if I would save an extra 20K, I'd rather not stay with my parents. Nothing against them, its just a different lifestyle all-together.

But do you man, do you

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this
 

When I first got hired I did that for about 3 months. At first it wasn't bad because I was rarely home. After about a month and a half I became miserable. Ive always had a great relationship with my parents, however they were driving me up the wall! On the weekends when I was getting off work and getting ready to go out, they would give me the worst speeches. Im not in HS anymore, but thanks guys.

Since moving out I still am over there a lot to hang out or get free food. And they also cant judge me anymore for my night time habits of going out.

Oh and living with the parents definetly puts a dent in the girl factor. Just a heads up.

It is what it is
 

True- it will be tougher to go out at night and no girls to bring back home!

Weazel3:
When I first got hired I did that for about 3 months. At first it wasn't bad because I was rarely home. After about a month and a half I became miserable. Ive always had a great relationship with my parents, however they were driving me up the wall! On the weekends when I was getting off work and getting ready to go out, they would give me the worst speeches. Im not in HS anymore, but thanks guys.

Since moving out I still am over there a lot to hang out or get free food. And they also cant judge me anymore for my night time habits of going out.

Oh and living with the parents definetly puts a dent in the girl factor. Just a heads up.

 

I think it's worth it for up to a 20-30 minute commute. Just remember to be nice to your parents- they need to retire at some point- and help them out so that the finances also work out clearly to their benefit.

There are some interesting points on here about bonuses and "exit opps", but when it comes to an industry like finance, a bird in the hand is worth about three or four in the bush, especially with higher taxes and more regs coming, especially when the finance industry continuing to shrink, and especially during a crash.

Living in NJ was the best thing that ever happened to me my first year. I saved about $10K on rent and taxes, and then 2008 hit. While other analysts living in NYC were running around in a panic about the crash, I was sleeping like a baby. Eventually, when safe, boring inflation-adjusted MLPs were yielding 14%, I stuck some money into the market while hedge funds were going bust, everyone else was hoarding cash, and I made out like a bandit in the fall of 2009.

Noveau Richie has an interesting point on the opportunity costs, but if you're expecting a recession in the next year- or if you're just very conservative- cash and frugality trump an extra four hours/week of work.

For commutes of more than 20-30 minutes, I think it's worth it to get your own place if you are in IBD. S&T and certain areas of research, however, would allow a commute of up to 45 minutes, just given the shorter working hours.

Not a single person thinks its a little bit pathetic? And I'm not talking about the "cool" factor. I'm saying that your parents have supported you for long enough, you've got a well-paying job, time to go live on your own and become a man. Sure, it'd be nice to have an extra 20k, but when does it stop? You gonna move your wife and kids into your parents basement to skip out a mortgage payment? I can definitely see the benefits, but 22 years of free room and board is enough..
$20K= $100/month in distributions if you stick the proceeds into dividend stocks, REITs and MLPs at 6%. (It would have been more like $200 back in 2008) At some point, after enough accumulation and enough dividends, you start to place more value on your time, more value on free space, and you move into a bigger place that's closer to work. It's just natural, even for conservative folks.

If parents are OK with it and he helps them out with the property taxes and food, it could be a smart move until he gets his first bonus. Then he obviously needs to move out. But during a recession, during layoffs, during a crash, you've got fewer nightmares if there's an extra six months of living expenses stuffed under your mattress. That translates into materially less aging- something on the order of a couple years- you should see how some of my other analysts who lived in the city look now after surviving 2008.

 

It’s funny how most of you are totally cool with your parents paying for you to live in their home as an adult as long as they “don’t give you shit for it.” Seriously?

“I'd definitely lay down boundaries with the parents as well.”

“Do it if its close enough. Not to mention you'll probably make ur mom a damn happy camper, which translates into even more services than before.. no chores for you.”

“def. do it if your parents life in manhattan and if they rnt gna give you too much shit about the hours you work/ interfer in your life in general”

Scratch the funny comment. More pathetic than anything.

If you're going to live with your parents, at least offer to pay a portion of the rent/food/utilities and respect that it is their home and you're an adult (assuming your parents respect you as an adult; otherwise find your own place).

 
beccabeth:
If you're going to live with your parents, at least offer to pay a portion of the rent/food/utilities and respect that it is their home and you're an adult (assuming your parents respect you as an adult; otherwise find your own place).
Not sure I agree with some of the derision for thrifty people who take advantage of family having a spare bedroom close to work, but 100% agree with this part. You should help your parents out with the property tax, mortgage, utilities, and food.

Disagree with some of the derision for living at home. You are a banker. You do not have time for a social life or a girlfriend. Living at home is a net win for your family to the extent that your rent and unlimited cable/internet bills are concerned.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
Not sure I agree with some of the derision for thrifty people who take advantage of family having a spare bedroom close to work, but 100% agree with this part. You should help your parents out with the property tax, mortgage, utilities, and food.

Disagree with some of the derision for living at home. You are a banker. You do not have time for a social life or a girlfriend. Living at home is a net win for your family to the extent that your rent and unlimited cable/internet bills are concerned.

I'd probably shoot myself if I was working banker hours only to have to commute back home. Nothing wrong with using a portion of your (relatively high) salary to also improve your life and have some fun. Yes, there's nothing wrong with spending money. There's also nothing wrong with responsibly enjoying it. You don't always have to save save save - at some point, what the fuck are you saving for?? If you graduated and are working as a waitress earning jack shit, then you'd be retarded to have your own place. But if you have a well-paying job, the ability to live completely independently is one perk. And I am one of the most frugal people out there, at least among the bankers I know, so sorry if that comes off elitist. I like not having to crash on a friend's couch if I go out too hard in the city. I like having a place in the city that I can bring a girl back to.

 
realjackryan:

Like a homeless person

I know someone that did couch surf for awhile in Manhattan after his roomate kicked him out to make room for a girlfriend. Apparently it wasn't that bad, and getting women to let you crash at their place isn't that hard.

 

Why blow up your electric bill running a laundry machine when you can soap up your undies in the breakroom sink.

Hell, why waste time - and time is money after all - going to the bathroom when you can just dump in your pants. Then save electricity by washing them in the sink.

 

I would love to see this actually be done, you roll up to some dudes cube and hes got a 50 inch LCD tv mounted on the cubicle wall and a couch against the other, can't forget the mini fridge under the desk and a clothes rack, along with a pile of dirty clothes. Ah now I see why they frown upon this idiotic idea.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

My apartment lease is up and I am moving into a van. I have decided to give it a shot for a few months. I want to save up some money for a down payment on a home and figured this would be a great way to do it. It is a late 80s chevy, with a bed in the back. My office building has heated/cooled underground parking, so I am just going to park in there each night. I also have a membership to Anytime Fitness up the street, and they have shower facilities.

I will do all my laundry at the joint around the corner.

Have any of you guys done this? or had a co-worker do something similar. I am slightly worried about the stigma at work, being “that guy who lives in a van” but it will only be temporary (6-12months) and it makes quite a bit of financial sense imho.

 

What the fuck did I just read. Get roommates via subletting if you already have a lease or sublet somewhere else if you're looking for a place. I used to have roommates so I could live in a much nicer place than I could afford on my own and I'd still generally save money.

I liked women so the whole van-by-the-river was never really an option.

 

Curious about this as well. Is there a tipping point at which you'd be willing to move in/move out in terms of a % of post-tax take home?

To live on my own (just apartment and related costs) costs around 28-35% of my post-tax take home (Non-IBD, 15min commute). 35min commute from the parentals.

"Buy gas. It's a sure-fire commodity with no risk except for the sure risk of fire." - Stephen Colbert
 

@"SSits" Lol, no he was in no way a pedo. He sounded like a pretty nice guy over the phone, and I'm actually looking forward to seeing some of his older work he'll be sending me. I asked him what things I can expect to learn from this 'internship' and he told me the objective would be for me to be exposed to a variety of deals where I'll be able to learn about financial structuring, valuation, and underwriting. I'm just curious as to I can put this as an summer analyst "internship" even though it'll all be done from home.

 

It's a bit odd but if that's the best you've got you have to run with it.

I'm curious: do they not have an office that you can go to? Even if the MD isn't in the office you should be able to pick up stuff from other people. And part of internships, especially earlier in college, are just getting the experience of working in a professional office environment.

 

Well he does have an office about 30 minutes away from my house. But he told me over phone that he used to have 2 senior analysts with him at his firm and they've moved on to jobs with other firms. So based on that information, I think he's a one man show right now..

 

I think you should be fine. I have a friend who interned from home for Salt Creek Capital in S. Francisco; My friend lives in Philadelphia. It was a 6 weeks internship (mostly business development and a little modeling). You should be fine listing this experience on your resume.

 

Update:

So the MD sent me two previous Offering memorandums (OMs) today from his archives and wants me to "review" them. What do you guys think are the important details I should be paying attention to when I give him my feedback/thoughts? He also told me to send him any samples of project modeling or financial modeling I have done in the past. I think he forgot but I told him that, as a rising junior, I haven't begun taking any of the financial modeling courses yet at the business school (i'll be starting those later this year). Do you guys think I can learn from scratch quick enough to actually be of any assistance to any future work he sends me? All thoughts and advice are appreciated.

TGP

 

Thats tough. I would review Macabus for quick modeling guides, or sign up for a modeling course online either through the WSO recommended one or BIWS.

I think overall this is a great opportunity, shape the internship the way you want, put "Merchant Banking" or Investment Banking Summer Analyst as the title, and just make sure you know your shit. You can even ask the MD for stuff and pretty much shape the way you want to talk about the internship during interviews. Just make sure to be able to back up each bullet point.

I would study hard and use all the down time to study modeling and go through the interview guides to get a foundation first before submitting work to the MD.

 

@"Ataraxy"Thank you for your input. I have been trying to utilize Macabus and "a simple model dot com" to get a grasp on basic financial modeling. Hopefully I can teach myself quick enough to be of some use. The types of deals he said he typically gets involved with have to do with sale of CRE property, hotels, etc. I just went through two CIMS he sent me and there was quite a bit of information I had to go through. Still plenty of terms on "pro forma" projections that I have to get used to, haha. If anybody has any tips to keep in mind in regards to that particular industry for modeling purposes, I would also appreciate it!

 

This isn't necessarily bad but it sounds more like he's an real estate investment sales guy or if he's getting into the PE side of it, real estate PE. I'd search around this site and all over the internet for info on that. Nearly everyone in RE uses a modeling software called Argus. I don't know if he could get you a copy of it (it's not cheap from what I remember, i.e. you're not buying it on your own) but that would help you greatly. I haven't used it in 15 years so I have no details on it. There's an RE thread on WSO, check it out and you might get some good ideas on reviewing offering material, modeling, etc.

 

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"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger
 

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"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."

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  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”