BP (and the oil majors) trading
Hello all,
I have heard it said that oil majors (particularly BP) turn out impressive physical oil traders. Does anyone know what it is that a place like BP teaches its junior guys that other places don't or can't teach as well?
The same thing Gregg Popovich teaches his players.
Spin-moves and layups ?
Thanks, does anyone else have any input? My impression is that it has to do with the fact that their operations are extensive so you get to learn about the supply chain from A to Z and see how the markets are interconnected given their reach. Would be interested in getting examples of what you might understand better starting out at BP vs "trading house XYZ" (e.g. you know the details of transportation, refining and refinery margins, or negotiating contracts better).
There is two things that make a trade desk strong one is its flow/expertise in certain areas and two is its people. BP excels in both.
While they have an extensive list of assets and markets they participate in which makes you see various parts of the market. The main reason their TDP program is so good is because it is well refined over time, participants in the program are treated like the future of the firm you rotate in various areas where other people want to teach and are willing to help teach the markets/areas they work in.
As I said it the same reason, NBA youngster would want to play for Popp. You are not going to get any direct examples this is more of a subjective thing, just understand when you do the BP TDP their goal is to make a future leader of the firm and they give you everything to succeed, rest is on you. Let's of shops have similar asset base or even more than BP does in certain areas and many of their traders do not give a crap about mentoring at BP they need to, since the TDP is seen the way to build talent.
Basically sounds like they have the resources (assets, market reach, experience etc) but more importantly the desire and a strong game plan to make sure you become competent in trading (or another area they are active in). Do you (or anyone else) know whether this applies mostly to their graduate program or whether the quality of your experience there will be just as good if you come in through another entry point for instance directly into logistics, risk, contracts or product control roles?
The impression I have got is that the TDP program is the main focus and those people are the ones who will get to front office fastest. I have never heard contracts being apart of TDP more trading analyst/risk/operations/fundumentals.
I am sure there is movement available for those who stand out in other roles but TDP is the focus at a firm like BP.
Thanks for your comments. Despite the fact that the focus may be on the TDP for graduates, do you think that in most junior middle/front office roles, the experience, if your goal is to gain the best knowledge, would be better at a place like BP (rather than "Big Name Trading House"). That is to say, will you learn scheduling (insert other middle/front office role) better at BP than at a trading house or is it pretty much comparable all round unless you're part of the TDP? Basically, looking to know whether if you don't make it to the TDP, BP is still as attractive a place to go to learn the ropes or if other places (trading houses) start to be more attractive (purely from a learning standpoint)
BP is a good place to be period
keep in mind fit is also big here. places like bp would probably drive me fucking insane and i don't think i'd work well there, so i probably wouldn't get promoted. other shops have cultures much more like ibanks which i enjoy more, whereas bp is very touchy feely. so make sure you go in knowing cultures vary a lot.
Yeah culture is important, would suck to work at a place where you hate every hour of every year that you're there. Monty, why do you say that BP is a good place to be period? I imagine many companies are good overall or good if you're involved in what they have built their reputation on but not good across the board. Without knowing more about the place or why you think it's good period, there's nothing that tells me that whether I'm a scheduler, graduate program guy or settlements employee, BP is the place to go if put up against other firms involved in trading oil for a similar position. It could be that they expect the grad program guys to be the future leaders and don't give a damn about other support functions whereas petrochina with no grad program might be more open to training people in all their mid-office entry level roles, giving them more opportunities for career development. (this is hypothetical just to illustrate my point). So what makes you think it's good period? Anything beyond what marcellus said?
BP has a lot of strengths in terms of exposure to a huge scale of business with large assets (large refineries, storage, pipe positions, marketing contracts with customers). There are robust systems/processes which is great for learning the industry. Also extensive training is provided (graduate program or not).
However, getting into the trader graduate development program out of university is extremely selective, and the ones who make it normally aren't offered a trading position at the end of 3 years. Calgary had 3 ppl per year in this GDP program and only 1 trader has been promoted in the last 4 years (the rest quit or get non trading jobs at BP). They had to reduce the numbers to 1 per year in the GDP program due to the massive backlog. The other trading offices at BP have similar stats.
As for the other employees hired on RDP program (finance graduate employees) or regular analysts, the odds of becoming a trader are close to zero.
But trading aside, it's a great way to get exposure to the industry, despite the bureaucracy. The people who move up in non trading functions have great careers. Also a great place for contacts. Due to the size of the floor, you will have a deep rolodex for the rest of your career in energy marketing , solely from working at BP. 3000 employees worldwide in BP IST and 150 in Calgary.
The gist I am getting (and this is a huge generalisation) working in physicals is that there are places to start your career and places to finish your career (BP is probably classed as both).
Some companies invest a lot of time into their training programmes and this shows when you look at BP's GDP and where their graduates end up. Obviously actual trading experience is key to being successful in the field but having a really well thought out and well taught grounding in the different areas that surround and effect your trading performance (admin, trade execution, refining, planning etc) seems to me to be incredibly important.
If you do not have enough info and knowledge to solve this matter, I think you should seek and read some analysis or reports of FX brokers such as alpari. com You can find something useful in it :D
BP is a good place to be period
BP Chevron etc. Trading (Originally Posted: 06/14/2012)
Do oil companies like BP and Chevron trade oil products and derivatives solely to lock in prices for the future and hedge their inventory? Or do they also take part in prop trading operations based on oil in order to turn a profit?
According to a LITASCO report I read, BP is one of the most aggressive firms in terms of taking on prop risk and Exxon is on the other extreme, exclusively using derivatives to hedge. I suspect Chevron is closer to Exxon in terms of how aggressive it is but that's pure speculation (no pun intended).
How many times a month must this topic be posted? Monty must be a busy dude.
All major E&Ps have a commercial arm and some have a "trading/marketing" arm. Exonn has no real trading arm nor cares to take on risk but they do have a optimization group who does more than solely look to hedge production.
Anyways the answer is like always firm, desk and product specific.
Chevron has a full pledged trading and marketing arm. Chevron also speculatively trades in certain markets.
Shell Energy Trading (Originally Posted: 10/26/2008)
I just had an interview with Shell for their shell energy trader development program. From my understanding, the rotation is among risk, origination and operation. You do not actually get to be a trader...
Does anyone know more about this program and if its possible to work toward becoming a trader?
I'd like to know too as I just interviewed there.
My understanding is it's a year or 2 in back/middle office (no bad thing) then you start trading.
I'm keen to know the sort of salaries and bonuses achievable there as I heard it's a lot lower than banks but no-one has been able to give specifics!
Also, is it possible to move from there to a HF/IB as a trader or other role in future?
Career ambition is to work for a commodity hedge fund.
Thanks
They have a lot of volume in their shop. Lots of places shelve deals on to to Shell.
bump
why the bump?
Interested to hear from certified users about prospects of going thru their trader development programme because it seems to be a mid/back office role with no actual trading experience.
Can someone comment?
Also, what is considered the 'front office' equivalent at shell?
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