Breaking in Dilemma (LDN)
Hi all,
I graduated from a MSc Finance at a non-target towards the end of 2020. Unfortunately, I only became aware of the IBD career path after graduation, so I don’t have the series of internships behind me, nor the target school which seems to be required for London (and IB in general).
I realise the SA 2022 cycle does not start until September. Should I focus on mastering excel and the interview questions between now and then? 5 months seems a very long time.
I was wondering if it would be worthwhile to take a MO role at a regional hub nearby, think BAML/Citi/CS. Would this have any positive or negative impact on my chances of breaking into IBD?
Thanks for any advice.
bump
Hey, first of all if you want to break in you will manage to do that even if it is not for a few years. Literally never stop grinding.
Re SA 2022 - I would not reccommend applying because it is largely a waste of your time since you have graduated in 2020, you don't even qualify for final year internships. I have never met anyone who has a summer internship with a bank for the next summer after they graduated(only 1 exception to this but he was recruitng for FT then fell short so they gave him a shot in the form of a summer internship 1 year after graduation), which in your case would be summer 2021, let alone the summer 2022. You don't have the student status anymore (unless you can get your uni to verify you graduate officially in June 2021). I think off-cycle internships are your best bet as they are designed for final year/sandwiche year/recent graduates, there is no set way to know when they come out (if at all) you just have to browse banks' websites and maybe keep a linkedin notification in the job section.
Re MO role - I would also reccomend against it because I have only met people going from MO (S&T Risk Management) to S&T and not any other FO roles. I am sure some people have made it from MO to IB but I would guess it is more the exception than the rule. Definitely go for MO/BO roles if you think you enjoy the role but don't rely on it for internal mobility to IB. The reason for this is probably mentioned everywhere in the forum where the skills/experience simply don't align.
So what can you do? In my opinion (might not be correct but its just what i think) you have a few options in the following order:
1) Big4 Audit/Corporate Finance - Lots of EB/BB/MM, especially mine, do tend to hire qualified chartered accountants from Big4 who have at least 1-2 years experience in their Corporate Finance/M&A team (not directly from Transaction Advisory/Risk Advisory/Assurance/Audit/Management Consulting, but maybe the Strategy Consulting arm). You can have a look on linkedin and can definitely find some people who did Audit -> CF/M&A -> IB. It doesn't really matter if you start in Audit then move to CF/M&A or just start in CF/M&A, it is only important to have that CF/M&A experience and being relatively young when you exit to IB (anything below 26/27 seems to be the norm). If you have fewer than 3 years of CF/M&A you come in as a 3rd year Analyst in my firm and if you have more then you can come in as a 1st year Associate. This is a very solid route for you as Big4 are frankly less a*al about grades/target school and all other superficial things that don't completely represent a candidate's potential.
2) Boutiques - I don't mean the EBs such as Rothschild or PJT here, I mean genuinely small boutiques that have ~20 people in the whole firm if not fewer. Obviously there is no structure way of recruiting and if anything it requires you to network with the them and convince them to give you a shot (maybe in the form of a fixed contract). One thing IB HR likes is relevant experience even if it is a firm that nobody has ever heard of, it is better than nothing.
3) MBA - plenty of threads on this and I have 0 experience with MBA but i am guessing if you get a branded MBA (preferably 2-year ones) on your CV then you can also recruit for IB summer associates roles (this is why you want a 2-year one) before converting that to a full time offer for when you finish MBA. Unfortunately that's all I can comment on this.
4) Dont go into IB - Plenty of jobs out there with more interesting work and so on. Should definitely look at your own profile to see what sort of jobs you might excel in and go with that.
Background: at EB IB in London
First of all, thank you, I never anticipated that I would get such a thorough and structured response.
Your profile name is very appropriate – that is the mindset I have taken, I know that if I keep working it will just be a matter of time.
Re SA 2022 – This is great information in regards to the SA, I should have mentioned off-cycle internships in my initial post, I was aware that OC would be my best shot but as you say it is a far less structured process which I can’t wait about for. My logic was if there is definitely ~30 SA posts going up in September, that is something I could work towards and come in strong, as opposed to the off chance that OC internships would be drip-fed throughout the year.
Re MO Role – Yes this was as I expected. I have no interest in an MO/BO role, I thought that if I must take a job while applying to OC internships, perhaps the brand name of BB would work in my favour, but as you say there is no overlap in skills.
Again, thank you for your advice, I know it doesn’t seem like a lot but it really does help someone feeling lost.
Hey no worries happy to help. Just a few thoughts based on what you said:
1) Literally don't apply to SAs you will be automatically dinged as soon as you submit the form based on your graduation date - its just not how the SA system works. Whilst OCs are hit and miss you just have to hope you're at the right place at the right time there is no guarantee; It might be useful to brush up your technicals etc but at your stage you will never know enough technicals to be effective on day 1 (even if you do online courses and read books etc) so it is actually more about your story/passion/interests. Have those stories in hand and use them when you get interviews/ or find someone on LinkedIn who's willing to give you a networking call. Just focus on having a story along the lines of "I have strong motivations for IB I just need a chance to show what I can do, I believe my XYZ (work experiences, studies, extra curricular etc) will help me do well at this job".
2) Never look down on Audit or any job that isn't exactly IB but could lead you to IB, especially when you're not in a position to choose. This is so important because this forum encourages people to worship JP/GS/MS and fail to even recognise the value of being Big4 accountants. I get it - it isn't the sexiest job in terms of pay/exit/interest/stimulating work and personally I wouldn't do it either, but never think a job is beneath you (should really never do that anyway) unless a) You have a "better" job or b) you have tried the job and you have left for better things. If this wasn't the intention of what you said about you doing Econ in uni so you can't see yourself in Audit, just ignore what I just said. And re exit into IB yes - you might be 2-3 years behind people who started at the bank straight from uni but in the grand scheme of things won't make a difference 20 years down the line whether you decide to stay in banking or not.
3) About fixed contract - basically its an internship but because these places are so small they might not call it that. The idea is you sign a contract with them that expires in 6 months and they can decide to give you a permanent one after 6 months, treat the 6 months like a probation. This is one thing you can offer them i.e. maybe take a hit on salary for relevant experience, as long as you can actually eat and live to a standard (25-30k p.a. could be a decent bargaining point). When you get permanent contract it will bump up bonus is completely depended on the firm. I did something similar with a tiny boutique where my base was 25k p.a. for a period of time before I took a different opportunity, I know analysts who did a year of that and then were awarded permanent contract has c.£40k starting salary for roughly 9-8pm days.
The main takeaway is that yes you have answered correctly that you haven't necessarily got all the things you need to break into IB immediately but as we have discussed there are ways around and you just have to be patient and not lose sight of the goal.
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