Speaking hypothetically.
Breaking into IB with an Econ/Finanace degree is difficult enough as it is with the amount of competition, how about if you have a degree in something unrelated? Like History, Art, Biology? Have you done it or know someone who has?
| +241 | CVP 2025 Summer Analyst Class Is A JOKE | 91 | 31m | |
| +98 | The "Not So Obvious" things that get you a return offer? | 10 | 7h | |
| +95 | PJT Best EB in the next 5 years? | 46 | 6h | |
| +57 | Ex-JP Morgan analyst awarded $35M decade after NYC building’s glass door suddenly shattered on her | 15 | 17h | |
| +34 | Georgetown Placement for 2024 and 2025 | 20 | 12h | |
| +31 | Pros and Cons of the BB coverage groups | 16 | 4d | |
| +29 | Best IB group on the Street | 14 | 3h | |
| +28 | Barc vs WF for IB (Generalist) | 7 | 6h | |
| +28 | How to deal with egotistical team? | 6 | 5h | |
| +26 | BIG FOUR ARE PARADISE | 4 | 5h |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
It's definitely possible but you have to show a serious and prolonged interest in the finance industry, as well as probably doing some work on understanding the three financial statements (at the least) and some basic finance concepts.
Depends on your school and perceived difficulty of your major. STEM degrees like Biology are perfectly fine and actually quite common, since the perception is that you are smart if you get good grades in those classes. Harder for Art or History or Art History, but if it's Harvard, you'll still get decent looks and will get some interviews. After that, you just need to understand enough to interview well.
If you go to Harvard or Stanford, it won't be that hard if you are able to pick up a solid understanding of basic accounting and finance. IB is not really a finance job and they expect you to learn on the job as an analyst, with a comprehensive training program in your first few weeks. So, basically, major is not the big determiner, it's school.
If you attend an Ivy or similar school, you can major in whatever you want. Plenty of English Lit or Art History Major types working in various roles across the street.
If you go to a lesser ranked school, relevant major is much more important.
Is that fair? Absolutely not, but that's just the way it is.
Having recently gone through the process of interviews and such, I think you should separate Finance from Econ... Finance/Accounting could be one category, Econ another, and then a third category could be unorthodox majors like what you described above. This is my opinion, if we are speaking strictly 'majors', you have a better shot with Finance or Accounting than Econ, and Econ has a better shot than Art/Science. Can I back that up by facts? No. I don't know of any data that tackled this sort of question. But I can tell you from experience that interviewers will likely ask about any unorthodox major and you will have to explain that and how it relates to an interest in finance --> then you have to parlay that interest in finance into why IB --> and then you have to parlay that interest in IB into why company X. So, it's essentially adding an extra obstacle for you during interviews, which is assuming you can make it to an interview/superday with an unorthodox major. My two cents: if you haven't taken any accounting classes or basic finance classes I find it hard to believe that (unless the firm trains you before you start the internship / FT) you won't struggle. In my opinion basic accounting and finance skills are assumed when you start an internship with initial training being in specific software, processes, etc so there would be a a good deal of playing catchup I feel.
Above posters have really good points, if I recall correctly 'most' Ivy's don't particularly have a specific major titled 'Finance' and instead have Econ and specific classes (which is understood as basically a Finance education) - so from that perspective I don't think having Econ as a major will hurt you one bit. Econ at non-target, rather than Finance/Accounting, may be harder (in my opinion). Again, if you can make it to the interview stage, no matter your major, you will have to explain your interest in Finance, the field, and the company. So it's possible but may be tougher to land an interview unless (like the above posters said) you're a superstar Engineering or Bio major.
I majored in finance and if I did it again I would have done engineering, math, or computer science.
Maybe I just went to a garbage state school (Pac-12, but not highly regarded for education) and this doesn't apply to IVY league or other programs but I never felt like my classes were that hard. I took Calc II & III because I was bored of listening to the same lecture over and over again on how to calculate WACC in my finance classes. For interview prep and anything substantial that actually mattered for the job I learned from reading Rosenbaum & Pearl, other finance books, and BIWS.
Hey man,
I am only going into my summer SA at a BB but from what I can tell is that it is very well possible but you kind of have to demonstrate an strong interest. I was a poli si major from a semi-target LA college, but when i wanted to do banking joined my student investment club, hustled hard for some finance related work on my resume, and crafted my story well on how i only realized I want to do banking later on in college.
Aside from that, you must network you dick off to have any chance. I literally spent all summer and fall networking to land it. Also, you need to have a little luck on your side.
Best of Luck!
For Non-target schools, I'd argue it also depends on the type of IB firms your targeting. For Liberal Arts majors like History, Poly Sci, etc., you need to have something else that demonstrates an interest in Finance (i.e. clubs, auxiliary courses, etc.) regardless of where you want to land. For STEM degrees, you might be able to land a spot at a sector focused boutique (i.e. CompSci/Qatalyst, Petroleum Engineering/Tudor Pickering & Holt, Biology/Leerink) without really having demonstrated a strong interest in Finance as long as you're passionate about the sector. If you wanted to land at a BB or EB however, as a STEM major, I think you'd need to have gone to a school with a strong IB network and demonstrate some enthusiasm for following companies/stock market etc.
It depends on the bank from what I have noticed. I have a friend that works at GS and I went out with his analyst class and realised that it was only a minority of the analysts that had degree related to finance. Lloyd Blankfein majored in history, just saying.
On the other hand, I have some friends at Evercore and they all seem to have a finance/math/accounting/econ degree. Keep in mind that my sample size is probably way to small to draw any solid conclusions though.
Llyod Blankfein was never a banker....he went to law school and worked at a commodities desk at a firm that was acquired by Goldman.
Lloyd Blankfein also went to Harvard.
If you're not at a top target, you better have a damn good story about why you're interested in business and decided to major in say art history. That will undoubtedly be the first question they ask.
Science is more doable if you're interested in healthcare banking. Engineering is reasonable for industrials. Math, shouldn't be much of an issue. But again, you better demonstrate that you understand financial concepts and basic accounting.
Hard to break in when you don't know how to spell finance
That was a typo haha
breaking into bb ibd high-gpa, non-finance major, semi-target school? (Originally Posted: 06/20/2011)
hey all,
i recently graduated from USC with a BA in communication. i ended up with a 3.98 GPA.
for quite some time ive been very interested in getting into investment banking, preferably at a BB bank.
as a non-major, does anyone have any idea of how realistic it would be for me to get a position like this? also, does anyone have any recommendations on how i should go about getting interviews/being properly prepared for interviews?
i dont have any finance-related coursework on my resume, but feel confident in my abilities to learn what i need to learn for any potential interviews i might have (i hear learning basic accounting is a must? what else?). i also know story is important, and i believe mine could be a convincing one.
also, in terms of quantitative skills, i took and passed the AP calculus BC test in high school, and scored a 770 on the math part of my SATs and a 790 on my sat math IIcs. this is the most current quant-related items i can point to on my resume (lol).
if anyone could please give me some feedback/advice i would greatly appreciate it, thanks in advance!!
Look at UVA's MMS or something
Find so finance related work / internship ASAP then work your way in towards BB
Definitely look into the Masters programs as mentioned above and get an IBD internship before you get into the program for experience.
as mentioned intern and network. Try Montgomery & Co. saw something on Linkedin recently regarding an SA role.
thanks for the replies everyone.
do you guys think a masters is necessary? what about having to go through an MM or boutique? how unreasonable would it be to study up on the proper material and apply directly to BBs?
i applied to a BB online for an SA position on a whim my junior year and got interviews for the NYC and LA offices but didnt do well because i had next to no industry knowledge (i applied because a friend convinced me to).
is my biggest obstacle now just getting interviews? is it going to be a lot more difficult because i graduated? or can i expect to still get BB interviews, leaving my major obstacle to be performing well at the interviews?
If you're still in LA or looking for internships in LA, hit up linkedin and find your USC Alumni. I have friends at USC and some have graduated and worked/work in IBD/Consulting. They are always more than willing to help out fellow Trojans. If you network like crazy your trojan community shouldn't let you down.
Anything to help a recent Trojan Alum.
First off, BB IB recruiting is highly structured. The recruiting process for all investment banks generally works like this: resume drop ---> 1st round interview --> 2nd and/or 3rd round ---> "Super Day" ---> ding or offer. The process starts Fall of your senior year. It is very rare to get an offer outside the typical recruiting pipeline. So if you are trying to get into BB after graduation, your chances went from "low" to "nearly nonexistent". Of course, there may be exceptions to the rule. I would say skip the BB's and focus on the regional MM and boutiques. They will also be a easier to network into.
Second, take advantage of your network. Call the career center, they will have the resources to get you in touch with the right people. Networking should be your gameplan until you get an offer. Its actually your only gameplan now.
An issue you're going to have to address is your general lack of demonstrated interest in finance. You're obviosuly smart, but you havent taken any finance/accounting coursework nor have you joined any of the finance organizations on campus.
Concerns a potential recruiter may have are: You went to a university with business school, why didnt you just major in finance? Why investment banking/finance? What do you know about financial mkts? Why didnt you go through the typical recuriting pipeline? Why didnt you intern in undergrad? These are concerns you will need to address.
I wouldnt recommend grad school at all, unless its a strong MBA. Dont get an M in Finance. There are really only two points of entry into IB: undergrad recruitng and MBA recruiting.
Good luck.
thank you so much for all this awesome information, i really appreciate it!
the people that say you need to major in an IB relevant field are full of shit (Originally Posted: 08/19/2006)
I know 5 guys that got into IB this year. All Ivys 1. Sociology 2. English 3. American Studies 4. Econ 5. Romance Studies 6. Art History (Me)
3/4 of the fuckers on this blog dont know what they are talking about. they are ib wannabees trying to get insight whilst misguiding people with their "i think" mentality. It doesn't matter what you major in, just end up with a solid gpa and come off as a decent person in your interviews and you will get ahead. Most ivys dont even offer business -cornell and penn only do. To the guys on the previous LSE post, the asshole that said the recruiter will make you justify your double major is full of shit. He probably had a dildo up his ass while writing that. The recruiter will not make you justify it, he may ask why, but it is no means a justification path. Just expain that you like both subjects and that will suffice. Half of the douche bags that write this bullshit will never be IBers because they are concerned. Just relax, present a strong gpa, a potent desire for entrance into IB, respect, sincerity and interest and you will be IB. Don't follow this bullshit.
I happen to agree with you. I was a Spanish major some 5 years ago. I don't know things could have changed, but prolly not.
but how do you really feel?
you don't even need a high gpa. my gpa is 2.6 and i got in.
i think you're full of shit. this is what the guy above was talking about. no fuckin way a 2.6 got in, unless he lied, or is working out of a shithole in Montana.
believe it or not, it's up to u. i'm just telling the truth.
and no, it's not in montana either.
ok, in all seriousness how did you get in? did u write 26 on your res? did you have connections?
alumni.
you contacted an alum? i am eager to ask if they asked for ur gpa?
There are plenty of smart kids who went to a state school like UVA, even UMD, Rutgers who majored in Finance and had a finance class with a professor preparing them with excel modeling skills.
Yes they'll be put in the pool with those "ivy fuckers" (quoting the first kid) who majored in "i am fucking wasting my time and I can afford it because my dad's rich" majors.
The result? The kid with the good finance/modeling experience will have a head start. first of all he's likely amongst the smartest from his state school. Coupled with the fact that he's got all the tools, he'll kick the ivy kid's ass.
ya they asked for my gpa, so i told them what i got. i didn't lie like the other guy who lied about his gpa (from B to A; see the thread on this forum) cuz i didn't think it was worth it. he said, "fuck, that's higher than what i got. fuck the gpa. tell me what u know".
no he will not! first off, by no means am i a rich kid -i have about 90k in loans. i have an earnest appreciation for art and i believe college is a liberalizing experience. You have ur whole life to learn banking, and believe me it doesn't take a while. i've only been in since may and im fine with it. when they recruit, and i should know, ive been through it, they guage your "fit" as well as your level of intelligence. if you have the skills, show them u understand finance. you don't need a whole bunch of fancy modeling classes. now, by no means am i saying that they are not looked at. of course they are, but character, respect, and desire matter more than a fucking major. Also, you're a royal dipshit; where did i say "ivy fuckers?"
hahaha, thats awesome, so you must have known much about the business?
yeah this guy got in with a low gpa b/c he knew somebody. fuck that shit. try applying w/ a 2.6 when they come to recruit at your school. your resume will be used as toilet paper.
believe it or not, knowing somebody is how most people get their jobs (not just in ib). if you can find an alum who likes you/is willing to push your resume, you have a huge advantage over someone with a higher gpa but no contacts.
i agree with that, but 26 is low.
Ivy kids can major in whatever the hell they want to just because their education comes with a big name. They are given all the opportunity in the world through alumni and recruiting. If you go to a non target major in something relevant to give yourself the best odds...it's that simple you retard.
Me and my fancy education didn't do too much for me, by the way.
Some if not all of the lower boutiques/mid tier banks prefer a finance or accounting degree, bulge brackets on the other hand take any major.
I wonder if you'll ever make it into a good business with a low GPA like 2.6 since, even if you have good gmat and relevant work experience, .....won't the B-Schools care that your undergrad is so low. (Although it was 5 years ago or something ...... ).
How do you expect an IB to even give a kid that went to some non target an interview if they majored in some liberal arts bullshit. HR won't even glance over their resume twice coming from a non target with some pansy ass major. Go relevant or go home cuz you won't have a good chance otherwise...unless your daddy is an MD or something
what major was this kid that had a 2.6? he could of easily been like an engineering major or something where a 2.6 is at least somewhat more reasonable, but certainly still low
cornell doesn't have undergrad business... way to back up your credibility.
closest to wharton in the other ivies is economics... aside from that, princeton offers operations research and financial engineering
you know, this gpa gibberish gets me going. you're so fixated on it! I'm doing a second degree now (Econ MSc; math-laden), 3 years after a foreign languages major. My gpa sucks big time right now (though I graduated cumma sum laude from my first university) but I'm enjoying theoretical finance together with econometrics and stats that come along with it (I'm talking stuff like stochastic calculus, etc). Anyhow, I interned at a very respectable house (M&A/ECM) and the amount of sophistication that you need there is, well, minimum to put it lightly. If you go to derivatives, that's a horse of a different color but again depending on what you do (I spoke with a trader and he said he had long since forgotten the formula for variance). So all this gpa ado is really about nothing... Banks use it as a cover; they couldn't care less. Because the truth is any monkey can do the job (M&A, ECM, DCM).
"cumma sum laude"? gotta be kidding, right?
aaaanyway, to OP: happy you made it, and good for you you managed to come off as a decent person in interviews despite coming off as an arrogant ass on this board. add to this your foul mouth and one must say you sure are picking up banker traits quick. The recruiters made a good call...
http://aem.cornell.edu/undergrad/index.htm
Cornell had undergraduate business. It is called AEM: Applied Economics and Management. Now who is the idiot?
it still does too, you prolly just made a typo
who is the fuck that said cornell doesnt have UG business. Im in it -haha, fucking idiot. Anyway my brother went to Princeton, majored in French, and is IB. My sister went to Penn, majored in Classics and is a trader.
yeah, u dont need a relevant major from a target. however a non-target would need the major, or at least it would help.
This thread starter is such a stupid fucktard, so you are saying to major in shit that has no relevance to IBanking? You said relax and show "sincerity and interest"? Part of that is shown through interest in topics you study. Point being is if you want to show interest then it makes sense to choose a business major since it is relevant to IBanking. It's a dawg eat dawg world.
It's a dawg eat dawg world.
I would never hire anyone from 1. Sociology 2. English 3. American Studies 4. Romance Studies 5. Art History
because if they were so smart they would have gone into better majors. Those liberal arts horse shit majors do you no good in the real world. Are you going to recite love poems to your MD? Guess not. If you can't make me a buck then get the fuck out of my face.
I am an IB recruiter for a bulge, so I would like to dispel any ambiguity, if I may.
If you get into an Ivy you are intelligent, hands down. In most cases you learn quickly and you are someone who appreciates hard work. Recruiters understand that. I am one. I look at an English major the same way I look at a Sociology or Economics major. They all have relevance to IB. I look at English applicants and I say to myself, chances are they have impeccable reading comprehensive and writing skills. I look at sociology people and I say, chances are they have great analytical and writing skills. I look at economics ladies and gents and I say, they are probably quantitative and rather business savy. Congrats to the originator, this post has actually made it around the IB recruiting office of a bulge. Every Sunday I like to check blogs to see what the hopefulls are up to. Anyway, every major has a strength and weakness. When we interview you we are looking at your character traits. We are trying to see if you fit the firm and if the firm fits you. We are also trying to ascertain your level of world understanding. We ask you about current events, politics, and economics. We are strong on the econ, by the way. We want to see that you understand econ, and that can be manifested in a variety of ways -i don't have the type to type them out.
Like the recruiter posted before me, banks know that ivy kids are smart/brilliant/insert adj here. They can afford to major in just about anything because they come from a prestigious school. Everyone on here who has agreed thus far with the original posters and has cited examples have yet to pull one of a non target kid. Tell me someone who came out of UMD, Rutgers, BC, etc. that has entered the industry with a liberal arts degree without knowing someone far up the chain. It just doesn't work like that. In general, kids that come from non targets should major in something relevant to give themselves the best chances at breaking into IB, because they start off well behind the Ivy kids. In summation...Ivy kids should major in whatever they want because they have already proved their brilliance and compitence without doubt. Non target kids should major in something IB relevant to make themselves as marketable as possible to IB because they are in an uphill battle right out of the gates.
It's a dawg eat dawg world.
yeah that great Dawgie. Fucking discredit the source of your centention. It doesnt jive with what you say, so yeah it must be fake. what a dumbass.
Actually, Dawgie, I believe Hank Paulson majored in English over at Dartmouth.
Look guys, I guess we can say that it doesn't matter all that much what you major in assuming you're coming from a TARGET. If you are an English major, you better show that you have a conceptual understanding of econ. From a non-target you're pretty much sitting on a dildo. You need to do something to rise above and sit on the IB chair.
I agree w/ the recruiter. I am a 2nd year sociology major from Yale and i'll tell you it doesn't much matter.
you came from a god damn ivy league school so of course it doesn't matter for you. stupid piece of shit. not one person from a non target that has gotten into IB has come out and said that it didn't matter for them so shut the fuck up you ivy fagots.
What the fuck is your problem? You have a serious inferiority complex. That, coupled with your curmudgeon type apoplectic recalcitrance is troubling. You're not qualified for IB -asshole.
ignorant assholes like you who fail to add any depth to this forum. We had already well established the fact that ivy kids have a much different path to IB. They can major in anything under the sun and their school name will still get them an interview. Non targets it is different...way different. So please do not go around throwing around your generalist statements that pertain to about 50% of the kids that use this site. People like you don't deserve the resources of your ivy education. Kids like you don't deserve what is being handed to them. Finally, i am sorry to say, but you are the one not qualified for IB. If you cannot take a small little berating tyrade like mine, how the fuck are you going to deal with the pressures of Associates all over your ass? But please, by all means, keeping making those insightful generalizations...
"ignorant assholes like you who fail to add any depth to this forum." -Did you pass 5th grade?
"Finally, i am sorry to say, but you are the one not qualified for IB. If you cannot take a small little berating tyrade like mine, how the fuck are you going to deal with the pressures of Associates all over your ass?" -Good thing i'm a second year, b/c if i wasn't i may consider a different career. Hahaha, fuckin dipshit.
Finally somebody w/the last name Bush who went to Yale is right. Majors don't matter. I was History w/ Sociology minor at Dartmouth and im Leveraged Fin at a bulge. These people are trying to rationalize their pathetic finance major lives with propaganda. Banks like to see well rounded individuals. Any monkey can be IB. During the early years you're supposed to need that finance shit w/ all the modeling you do, but you just learn it in training.
you are an ivy kid...somebody from a non target please come on here and confirm that they got a job at a BB with a liberal arts degree...then i will believe that it truly doesn't matter for ANYONE
i went to a "liberal arts college" and 5 out of the 12 analysts in my IB class were from liberal arts colleges...but i didn't work at a BB. top MM firm...and they woudl all fal under the "target" school label (or close).
that being said, i do think that
1, students are from non-targets are obviously at a disadvantage from the start with less on campus recruiting, alumni contacts, etc.
2. majoring in business and finance will provide that student with a better chance of potentially breaking into IB. They need to show more focus and "desire" because they have to sell themselves more in my opinion. they have more to prove, so having a major that is related to IB helps in this way.
3 This by no means makes a finance or business degree any better. i would argue economics and math, etc are more "impressive" in my eyes...
4 this also does not mean that a sociology major at a target can't get a great BB job in IB.
5. this does mean i nmy opinion that the kid at the non-target will have a very hard time getting a job in IB if they are majoring in art history or sociology. they already have an uphill battle. "well-rounded" is nice, but that's more of a luxury recruiters look for at iveys when they know anybody they take will undoubtedly be able to do the job well (if they show desire).
-my 2 cents
Dawgie is such an idiot. Everytime he contributes it is like reading the used car ads -you don't want to do it, they bore the shit out of you, and you say who would ever buy this shit?
hahahahaha, good one.
I'm from a decidedly non-Ivy state school. Liberal arts major. I barely squeaked by getting into IB ( a lot of luck?). So i'd have to agree with anyone who recommends doing Finance from a non-Ivy.
Though I'm sure as hell glad I didn't.
Perspiciatis odio tempore aut corporis voluptas. Voluptatum et magni sint velit et. Ipsam hic repudiandae maiores rerum optio. Neque repellat molestiae autem.
Vero libero voluptas aut voluptatem sed. Reiciendis qui et ut dolores.
Quibusdam sapiente sunt doloribus nihil incidunt dolor. Ut rerum dicta eligendi architecto quo molestias dolores. Laudantium natus deserunt maiores nostrum. Omnis fuga blanditiis ea quo totam.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Deserunt nesciunt necessitatibus veritatis sed optio enim dicta. Tenetur commodi porro ex omnis. Voluptatem aut vitae non repellat in numquam officia qui.
Et et cumque quisquam aperiam. Unde labore aut quam velit debitis at officiis. Reprehenderit tempore ullam ut inventore ipsum dolores. At atque ipsa asperiores consequatur. Quo iusto molestias rerum est velit.
Doloribus neque dolorum enim consequatur. Reiciendis quod minima sapiente suscipit voluptatibus. Adipisci voluptatem fugiat sed perspiciatis dolores quidem. Autem mollitia sequi magni nobis iure suscipit illo. Ut eos sunt nesciunt ut. Ut suscipit reiciendis optio nam expedita dolores consequatur.
Voluptas quas autem vero. Voluptatem excepturi sit ea ut. Temporibus vel eos assumenda dolores optio cumque. Et ducimus voluptas voluptatum. Quis velit eos dolorum consectetur voluptatem sint ullam. Eligendi numquam officia quod ut.
At sit aut officiis consectetur porro sed quo. Et iusto laboriosam odio voluptatem distinctio saepe maxime. Impedit eos voluptatem amet animi. Eos ratione soluta odit fugiat sint quasi vitae iste. Ea voluptatem eum maiores consequuntur voluptatum perferendis nobis. Rerum natus est unde voluptate.
Id quaerat quos id cumque enim. Nihil occaecati at quia.
Et et qui tenetur vero laboriosam rerum. In laudantium rerum consequuntur dolor dolore dolor ea. Temporibus reprehenderit occaecati laudantium ipsum hic atque at dolor. Sed consequatur inventore nostrum dolor.