Weekend Wars: Sell side vs. Buy side
The dream and desolation of the high finance world. Which path to the upper crust of middle-class suburban boredom do I take? Do I jump to the buy side? Do I stick it out in this simian hell of pitch books and Excel? Which is really right for me? A friendly look in the rearview at how simply the decision was.
Nowadays, however, simply breaking in is hard enough. With the layers upon layers of applications piling up at HBS, Wharton, Booth and the like, an advanced degree doesn't guarantee what it once may have. The landscape is different, but the question remains:
Sell side or buy side?
For most, the answer comes easily. As the hours and pay are better, most prefer the buy side. There is also that extemporaneous angle of not being owned by the client and truly having a hand in your own fate.
That having been said, the work is not all that different. Since the buy side does tickle so much fancy, it can be argued that sticking it out on the sell side is a surer and faster path to success. With the glacial changes we have seen in the complex interplay between banks, regulators, markets and customers many buy side shops are struggling to generate the revenues they have grown accustomed to in the past quarter century.
There is certainly an air of prestige that differentiates the two worlds. Having spent much of my life in airports world and nationwide, I have developed a predatory lender's instinct towards sub-prime borrowers, when it comes to telling these guys apart. Just let me see him/her squirm in one of those tight waiting area seats and I can even guess the firm they work for.
Networking hint: first-class/business lounge, look for the guy rocking the crocs looking like he just got out of day-surgery, there's you buy side boss.
Alas, an irony I have found is profound and may bare serious thought for people weighing the decision.
The common train of thought is that the sell side is more of a sales gig and that the buy side requires deeper analytical skills and abilities. Though this is true, the catch 22 is that many of the best sales people jump to the buy side. Simultaneously, many of the analytical minds stay on the sell side. I have had more than one engineering major tell me that he never made the jump because of less-than-stellar interpersonal skills.
None of the points I've brought up will change anyone's mind. Seeing as this is a topic of great interest for many of you, however, I think it requires more in-depth thought than simple dollars and cents.
M^3, we should turn the "Weekend Wars" series into a series of rap battles à la Leveraged Sell-Out's "Damn it Feels Good to be a Banker."
You went to Walt Whitman that's a public school!!!
I like my bankroll bro, Keep your fucking work-life balance!
A more specific question on the buy-side (I am a recent grad, starting in trading at a BB soon). Say we're talking about similar starting salary for associates, why might someone want to join a fund of hedge funds over a global macro hedge fund? Thanks.
Also, which seems to be the career of choice for those who're hedge-fund oriented post BB stints?
"This shit's going down like Bear Stearns"
But seriously, buy side isn't all it's cracked up to be. The hours are better, sure, the pay is better (unless you're me). But you're just as beholden to a client in many situations. And in our case it's "WHY DID I LOSE MONEY TODAY YOU MOTHERFUCKERS." Occasionally they call you and tell you they're gonna pull out just to remind you who's boss. Plus, you can't get on the wrong side of your primes in a crisis, just ask the LTCM guys.
It's also a bit lonlier over here. I sit in a small office with no windows with our firm's lawyer. I'm 24, and the next research analyst is like 28, and he's considered a kid. I can't forge the same kind of relationships with my coworkers that many other analysts can on the sell side. It's not like I can go clubbing with my 53 year-old lawyer (or in my case, do something nerdy).
Also, the buy side can have a real stigma against networking. Some funds, like mine, will do everything they can to keep you away from someone who can give you a job. It can create a weird kind of insularity and secretiveness without justification. And just because the businesses are about earning returns, doesn't get rid of the truth (from another poster): "shared blowjobs are more important than 50% irr."
Gugu, a FoF is more of a sales gig (and maybe a bit more of a scam in some cases). They still do some funky portfolio valuation metrics if they're focused and can have some pretty intense due diligence processes. Or, they're just shotgunning money to wherever. Let's just say it's a job more focused on work/life balance. From what I understand from friends and Bondarb's posts, Global Macro is a constant meat grinder/adrenaline rush.
Career Q: What to choose - buldge bracket sell-side or buy-side (Originally Posted: 09/01/2012)
Trying to make a decision between 2 roles. My long-term career objective is to wind-up in a top-tier mutual fund, or a hedge fund. The two roles I'm choosing between are: 1) sell-side analyst in bulge-bracket investment bank in HK; 2) buy-side analyst in a boutique asset manager with AUM $2-4bil
The role of sell-side analyst in HK, I'm concerned about the view buy-side firms have regards to sell-side analysts, i.e. not extremely value-adding, more engaged in creating themes, then meaningful trades. But, on the upside, working in a bulge-bracket IB in equity research should provide me limitless opportunities in terms of mobility and a potential gateway into buy-side?
The role as a buy-side analyst, a boutique fund which only focuses on one strategy - i.e. REITs. Its an enjoyable role, but I'm worried about mobility in the future, i.e. is it difficult to move into top-tier mutual funds or hedge funds or (IBs), because it's a mid-tier one, with a not easily recognizable name (unless you work in the industry).
Any thoughts, and advice would be greatly appreciated!
Definitely do ER in HK.
I would agree with what others have said. If the buy-side role was not in REITs it would be more of a toss-up but REITs and real estate valuation in general does not transfer to broader equity valuation techniques nicely. Many of the people who start in real estate stay in real estate so if you like it I would definitely do the REIT thing but if you aren't committed to Real Estate I would do the BB ER role.
Also as an ER at a BB I would think you'd meet more buy-side investors than at a REIT buy-side role which could help you transition when you look to make that move.
The thing about funds which provides the up as well as downs is that it is unstructured. Depends alot on the people within the team.
In HK, I havent really seen that many funds which are really worth to work for free types. Many of them preach one thing and do another.
Also BTBanker was spot on. Even as ER guys arent helpful in terms of investment thesis and giving entirely independent and critical insights, not to mention always following the crowd, it still seems many hedge funds or investment firms are very willing to take them in.
If you havent been in the REITs role, how would you know its enjoyable? Please do not trust interview experiences and do some personal research and talk to people on the ground.
I had the same dilemma a couple years ago and after talking to PMs I knew ended up choosing buy side. Its not as easy as you think to go from sell side to buy side, though I'm not sure about HK.
That being said, unless you love REITs I'd recommend taking the sell side gig. Skillset gained covering REITs isn't as transferable as most other industries.
How About an Old Fashioned Square Off? (Buy-Side vs. Sell-Side) (Originally Posted: 11/14/2013)
Sure I've only been in the industry for 4 years...but within this time my distaste for the Buy-Side has grown to levels which satan himself would quiver at.
What do I propose: Some old fashioned ass whooping
A time where the sell-side can roll up their sleeves and beat the shit out the slick haired, bow tie sporting, Michael Jackson suit pant wearing, smarter than the next guy smut bags. I'm talking some shit right out of Braveheart. I would love it. Love to twist noses to the side....love to spit in their faces...to demoralize...to repay.
How does everyone feel about Bryant Park on the 20th? I'm feeling like 6pm....the Witching hour.
Shall we dance?
Are you retarded?
I'll fuck you up.
Haha the bow tie guys def need to get wedgied
Rough day on the phones today big guy?
//www.youtube.com/embed/LWezyvsMXKE?feature=player_detailpage
Why sell side as opposed to buy side? (Originally Posted: 01/12/2018)
Hi all,
First post here from a long time reader and I have a few questions. A little background, I come from a non target of all non targets in Canada and landed a really good role with a pension fund. I've wanted to get in to IB with the intention of moving to the buy side after two years like a large majority of people. I have a few questions.
If the majority of sell side bankers goal is to head to the buy side, why not try and land in the buy side out of school?
Are you better off starting out buy side if that is where you want to end up?
The analysts/associates I've worked for have told me multiple times in the first week of week they don't like face time and to leave when I'm finished my work. I want to show I'm willing to do the long hours but also don't want to disrespect them by staying for long hours doing nothing when they've told me to go home. Any suggestions or guidance appreciated.
km1793, have you checked out these or run a search:
Or maybe the following pros can chime in... b43b6b7b82b87 TZgoennerei Wallstreetneversleeps
If those topics were completely useless, don't blame me, blame my programmers...
Buy side vs sell side. Go. (Originally Posted: 08/09/2014)
But side or sell side- no specifics, but more respected entry level jobs and career advance opportunities. Go.
Here is what matters in careers and which job offers the best opportunities:
PEOPLE.
Go where you like the people the most. And the answer is different for everyone.
(I didn't throw MS at you.)
Buy side vs. Sell Side jobs (Originally Posted: 03/31/2011)
How many sell-side research positions are there in the US?
Whats the % breakdown between buy-side and sell-side analysts of the total number of research analysts?
Thanks.
So let me get this straight. You are trying to get someone else to do this for you? This is not a hard thing to figure out, however it is time consuming. Why don't you go to the yahoo finance star analyst section and use that count for the sell side. On the buyside it will take some estimation but you should be able to get close. I don't think anyone is going to take the time to do this for you.
total research analysts: 2,209,321
%buyside: 22.4545454 % %sellside: 77.5454545 %
source:my ass
How do you plan on using this information once (if) you are able to get it?
There's more buysiders imagine all the asset mgmt deep of insurance companies treasury departments pension funds mutual funds hedge funds
One mitigating factor is fact buysiders cover more sectors per analyst than sellside
Buy Side vs Sell Side (Originally Posted: 02/28/2014)
Hey everyone. Took a break from the forums for a little bit but wanted to get everyone's perspective on something. One area of finance that has piqued my interest while in school was M&A. I was wondering if I could get some feedback from people in the industry about this area with regards to positives and negatives about buy-side vs sell-side, overall feelings about M&A, if they enjoy it, etc. Thanks in advance.
AM at BB - buy side or sell side? (Originally Posted: 12/18/2010)
If I go into AM at a BB, what are the best groups to interview for if I ultimately want to end up on the buy side, as in pension funds or endowments?
.....? AM at a BB is on the buyside already and those guys are your clients
Just work toward getting into an analytical group whether it's a group that invests directly such as a credit focused group or even secondary like a fund of hedge funds type group. Either will get you the experience you need though both types offer very different sets of skills.
You already are on the buyside...
Go for any group/fund that does direct investments...
Buy Side vs. Sell Side (Originally Posted: 04/11/2008)
Hey everyone,
I understand the basics, but what really is the difference between the buy-side and sell-side? Is it simply that buy side, like HFs Buy securities, while sell side, like IB sells companies?
Also, what is better straight out of undergrad? I've done an internship on the sell side and will be doing one on the buyside this summer. What is the difference in exit ops, training etc?
Thanks a lot.
Buyside = gamblers, sellside = bookies
Buyside - evil Sellside - pious
Best, SoulSearching
Sellside= agent Buyside= principal
I think it would be best to go to the sell side after undergrad. You are able to put a big brand name on your resume, and you are more flexible to do whatever you want later in your career.
Blackstone and Cerberus aren't big brand names?
No, they are not; in fact, Blackstone is a large brand name"
Best, SoulSearching
Most people go to sell-side straight out of school from what I understand. My brother had to get his MBA before working at a PE Fund. I have had a couple freinds go straight into buy-side. Buy-side analysts generally get more than sell-side analyst all things being equal.
if you ultimately want to be on the buyside and have the opportunity to start there straight out of undergrad, why wouldn't you?
re: mlamb93
because you generally learn things quicker on the sell side? there's a lot more pitching and deals flying around that junior people are involved in. there's just more going on.
i know there are exceptions, especially at the top buyside places like Blackstone, which makes a case for going to such things after undergrad i guess, but generally yea.
other than that there's just more top shelf entry level openings on the sell side.
buy-side er vs sell-side er (Originally Posted: 03/11/2007)
Two piece topic:
1) If your ultimate goal was money management/fundamental HF, would you choose a 2nd tier sell-side ER analyst position with a bank known for good research, or same position but with a small buy-side house that is expert in its specialty and occasionally quoted in WSJ despite being tiny?
2) Any comments about the difference between sell- and buy-side ER in general?
Thanks, and for those not in the office on this sunday, enjoy the sun...
I would take the buy-side shop. I've heard it's much easier to switch from buy to sell than from sell to buy, if you want to later. Also, I like the idea of working for experts - there will be good people there, and you'll learn a lot.
Ive heard that its easier to switch from Sell side to buy side....
It is much harder to get to the buyside. Anyone that disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about.
Where do independent (but still "expert") research houses fit in the chain?
buy side vs. sell side out of UG (Originally Posted: 02/13/2011)
what are the pros and cons for going to an investment bank (say in S&T) out of undergrad vs. going directly to a hedge fund, if both options are available? My ultimate goal would be to end up on the buyside. For example, I'm curious how significant the networking disadvantage would be for starting off on the buyside. Is networking a huge deal in the hedge fund industry, or is it more performance based?
Thanks in advance.
im curious as to why you think starting on the buyside is a disadvantage if your end goal is buyside? wouldn't starting out and your end goal be...exactly what you want?
well i've been told that your network is a lot bigger if you start at a bank, and i guess in a sense when you move over to the buyside, which would be a given if you're good, then you would have that added network as a resource and safety net. i guess that would be in case your fund blew up or something else happened, or you had to lateral to another fund.
tbh i agree with what you're saying, i'm just trying to be thorough in my decision process
I wouldn't say moving to buyside is "a given if you're good", even if you landed a spot from undergrad. Just something to keep in mind, you may not be able to jump to a fund you want/at the time you want,
go buyside dont look back
thanks a lot for the input guys, really appreciate it.
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