Can I Make It?
Hello any Wall Street professional reading this,
I've been considering trying to break into Wall Street but should I even bother?
Currently 23 years old, graduated with a 3.39 from George Washington University in 2014 but with a degree in International Affairs (Politics).
Never had any finance jobs/internships
From what I've read, it seems like going the CFA or MBA route might be a possibility? (Please confirm)
However, if I can avoid those 2 options I'd like to as they would take some time and I'm not getting any younger.
Do I have a chance or should I just continue to work my day job?
Thanks!
Unless you have friends in high places, it's very unlikely. Doing an MBA at an M7 school will definitely help, and the CFA wouldn't hurt (would require ALOT of time since you have no exp in finance though).
I mean, there's always a chance. You are most likely going to end up in a sales or back office role without new credentials though. If your day job isn't something you want to make a career out of, definitely aim higher (Wall Street or not).
CFA or MBA.
GWU is a good school, maybe try to get into some consulting (like political risk, geopolitical, etc.) or land an back office role at a MM/BB (hard, but maybe possible). What's your current job?
Best bet would be to network your balls off, work towards your CFA while networking your balls off, or work towards your CFA while studying for your GMAT for a top 15 MBA.. while networking your balls off. If you do the third, worst case you'll end up with a CFA I, probably top 30 MBA and quite a little network of high finance guys... best case you land a IB job without ever having to get a CFA or MBA.
Totes agree with UTD above. You absolutely can if you decide to deploy all your resources towards that goal. Is it going to be as easy? No.
Seems the more important question, young'un, is why are you trying to "break in?" If you are shooting for max cash earning possibility, your skills could probably be better used selling something for someone who will pay you commissions. You are young, if you start now (and you're ok at it and the economy holds out) you could be making some serious coin in 5 - 7 years.
Thanks for the detailed answers guys.
Finance is something I have been considering because of dissatisfaction with my current job.
I sell real estate in the city and while I'm not particularly bad (or amazing) at it, dealing with people all day is not something that I want to be doing long-term (introverted, etc). Would rather be in a role where I am using my brain more (I slacked hard in high school and college, probably could have done much better than GWU with a 3.4)
Though given the time it seems it would take to break into finance (and probably entry level role at that), I could probably work on some sort of business idea instead?
Or maybe grow a sack and learn how to deal with people more effectively. You just sound like someone who doesn't like his current job and wants to transition to something that sounds better when it is more likely that your current deficiencies will hurt you in any career path you take.
I listened to this super interesting piece on communication which says that people only communicate in two modes, talking to people as if they are friends, or talking to people as if they are enemies. Izzy Kalman is the dude who fleshed out the idea (some of his stuff is on youtube I think).
I think the kids today are soft, stupid, and entitled but I doubt that harshness is going to help them get motivated. Am I off base?
I'll put a less hostile spin on the legendary DickFuld 's comment (which I more or less agree with).
People skills are critical to success in any endeavor. Starting a business without strong people orientation is not going to lead to success. People must trust and support you, and if you don't have above average sales skills, the cash simply will not come to you.
If you feel like trying something difficult, I would point you toward programming, focused on web applications. If you are just feeling malaise, you need to dig in much deeper and identify what your own motivations are in life, and make a plan of how you are going to achieve them. And then make a second plan for how to live in the mean time, and then a third plan for what you do if 2 doesn't pan out.
Maybe I should clarify - when I say I am introverted, I do not mean I am shy (I've heard people who aren't introverted will never understand this)
I have pretty good "people skills" but that does not mean I like being around people. It is very draining for me. Most people are surprised when I tell them I am introverted
Of course people skills are important in any endeavor. I just want to be in a line of work that involves less constant contact with people. For instance, in a sales job like real estate, I am either talking to clients on the phone, meeting them face to face, or interacting with people in my office - so just non-stop socializing.
On that note, I guess if someone could comment on the level of social interaction in finance (not a pure sales role, something more along the lines of investment banking, hedge fund), that would be appreciated.
Also, as per my original post, I am directing this post towards people on Wall Street, not incoming 2018 summer analysts or people with little to no work experience
Thanks
This dickfuld dude will probably fail to secure his 2018 SA anyway.
Hey, I understand you on this. I'm a "non-shy introvert" as well and while I'll be the life of the party when I attend, I'd much rather sit at home than show up to the party more than maybe once every other month. It's exhausting being "on" all the time - I get it. Also, I hate most people.
Still, as Dick and others have said, you have to sack up and just do what you have to do. There will always be parts of your workday you like more than others and always be parts you don't look forward to. Perhaps a better solution would be transferring to a different role in your current industry. You said you sell real estate in a city, no? Why not try and transfer to a more analytical role in real estate? You have the real estate background, and you'll be running spreadsheets instead of making cold calls.
I did a similar path myself. I worked for a big firm doing downtown highrise leasing but I hated being a "salesman" and making those calls. Worked my way into a REPE firm, and although I do talk to vendors, and designers, and investors, and co-workers, for me at least, it's a different world completely.
since 1969
My .02, I get your point but it takes very little effort to say good morning, how are you...yatayata. Everyone thinks they have "good people skills". You don't want to be around people and you want to do sales?
Do something else that's super interesting until you're 27 but related, e.g. F500 corporate finance and then go to a top MBA program. Try getting in after that.
Hey bro, I totally understand what you mean by not being shy versus introverted. Extroverted people will really never understand this. The point is that you get "peopled out" much more quickly than others. Its fine to be that way.
That's the only contribution I have to make. :)
Hey I am your age, graduated with a Political science degree, wanted to go to law school, same story etc.
Anyway, I would not consider myself broken into "Wall Street", but I definitely working in a finance capacity. I work as an analyst for a commercial real estate structured finance team, we handle very complex investment opportunities that require mezzanine financing, preferred equity, etc. to increase the borrowers leverage on commercial real estate development or office/retail property acquisition.
I work in a second tier city, which may have helped me, but the actual experience and knowledge I am gaining can be well-received anywhere.
Anyway, I used my poly-sci degree to get me a real estate/leasing internship for a retail company (restaurant chain). After that, I was able to land a job in a top 3 Commercial Real Estate Brokerage firm as a researcher (focusing on retail). I developed great relationships with a lot of the guys in my office, including the Structured Finance team, and within 10 months of working there they needed another analyst and the rest is history. Don't sell yourself short! start out in smaller markets, get the real world knowledge and experience that is more valuable than a degree.
Edit: I should mention that I had to prove that i was able to learn and understand the financial concepts. This took a lot of evenings in the office watching youtube videos on different concepts and models related to my industry.
I'm only 29 and live in the UK, so my life and cultural experience my not be sufficient or applicable to your situation, so take what I say with a massive pinch of salt....
If your initial post is representative of your attitude in general, then no, don't bother.
Questions like "Should I even bother?" suggest to me that you've already been defeated. It suggests that you don't have the self belief, the resilience or the tenacity to get a job in banking via a non-standard route. I appreciate that you are trying to assess the probability of success, but if this was something you really wanted to do you would go for it despite the poor odds. The fact that you are questioning whether you should attempt it suggests to me that your efforts will be half hearted and doomed to fail.
Questions such as "Should I take the MBA/CFA route?" suggest a lack or research on your part. Again, I appreciate that you are asking the question so you can gauge your probability of success, but there are plenty of articles out there on this very thing and I can only assume you haven't read them. This suggests lack of initiative and laziness, both of which are characteristics you can't afford to have if you want to take a non-standard route.
You also state that you're considering finance because of dissatisfaction with your current job. Do you honestly believe that's a good reason to get in to the industry?
You ask basic questions about the job and seem to have no compression of what it would involve day to day either. Again, this shows little interest in the job. Are you really sure you want to be doing this or are you just out of other ideas?
EDIT: I don't know what the return on investment would be like, but wouldn't you be better spending your MBA money on pilot school so you can sit in a cockpit of a commercial airliner not talking to anyone? Or train to be captain of a cargo ship? These seem like options that would be much easier to achieve and more in line with what you are seeking.
It's considered poor form not to make casual chitchat with ground control. Also, you'd probably have to talk to the Somali pirates when they board your cargo ship. Your point is well made however.
If you have to ask...
Look son, you posted on an online forum full of a variety of people with a broad range of experience, so your plea for responses of "only mega experienced bros on wallstreet plz" is a bit silly, and reminiscent of the pleas on craigslist for "no low-ball offers."
If you want that specific guidance, take some of your cold call skills, write a script for yourself selling yourself and call or linked in contact the exact bro you feel could definitely tell you what you want. Also consider that someone who went through a more typical route to the roles you're talking about may not be very helpful in assessing how you might go about doing it.
I am one for "Never say never".....but it would be extremely difficult to break into Investment Banking at this stage of your career given your background. A lot of people you reach out to in finance may question your sincerity in pursuing finance at this stage. I would agree with some other people in thread for doing a self evaluation for why you do not enjoy your current role and why your are interested in pursuing a career in finance. The comment you made about being introverted gives me pause for concern for anyone who mentions being interested in investment banking given the industry's client facing nature and collaborative culture.
Thanks for the valuable insights guys. Going to explore further
I have a colleague with the same degree (London). To be honest he worked abroad for a while and knows his languages.
I have a PolySci degree from a mediocre school, average GPA, no grad school, no CFA, no relevant experience...I am a Trader at a HF now. It can be done. I went the back office route and worked my way up. Think about it...
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