untitled123:

mcgill isnt prestigous, in some circles, concordia b school is considered better

So you have a 4.0 from Princeton and work as a third year associate at a hedge fund? Let me guess, you were so smart, that you were hired directly into GS's PIA/SSG group and then moved to Citadel/DE Shaw/Perry Capital because you were "so smart" that GS just didn't have enough future potential for you?

...more like a Concordia graduate who works in accounting

untitled123:

mcgill isnt prestigous, in some circles, concordia b school is considered better

Hahaha. Everytime i hear this same idiotic comment its from a disgruntled Montreal local (local because no one outside the city has even heard of Concordia) who applied to McGill Management and John Molson (Conc.) and didnt get into McGill, just their crappy 'refugee camp' of a school and now they trash talk about McGill.

What’s the difference between a JM student and a MM student? They both applied to McGill, but it turns out that the 70% high school average was good enough for JM only.

sisak:

Queen's MBA was # 1 in the world outside US by Business Week.

Higher than INSEAD?

Can you Please get it for me! Thanks

can i get this please?

This question has been asked numerous times before. It always comes down to Queens & Ivey.

However, UfT, UBC & McGill would be runner-ups.

Agree with the above post, but with greater emphasis on Ivey -- this year they actually placed kids into Silverlake PE...pretty impressive.

Above basically summed it up - if you want to go to the US you need to be at Queens/Ivey or have an incredible network. In Canada you can be at UofT, McGill, or UBC. I'm not 100% certain on this but I think Schulich has decent placement for Canadian banks as well.

Ivey/Queens - Tier 1 McGill/UBC - Tier 2 U of T/Schulich - Tier 3

Ivey, hand over fist (yes, including over Queen's)

QC will send a few kids to GS NY each year, but no other Canadian school has the same US presence/clout as Ivey. Including all of the Cdn banks and Toronto BB/EB offices, Ivey kids get recruited for: CS SF/LA, GS SF/LA/NY, Moelis NY/LA, EVR NY, Qatalyst SF, MS NY, JPM NY, Silver Lake Partners, Leonard Green & Partners, HLHZ LA/NY etc.

This also then trickles down to the PE/HF world: you have ivey HBA alumni at TPG, Ares, Apollo, Apax, KKR, Onex, Anchorage, GSIP etc.

Source: I graduated from Ivey HBA and have worked at an analyst at a BB/EB

Ivey seems to have the most representation on the street from a bb perspective.

Ivey is a great school and is worth the money. There is plenty of information in this thread http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/4393 .

1) Ivey (huge gap) 2) Queen's 3) McGill

This is from an American's pov, however. I will say that here, in the US, while Ivey competes with some of the best schools here in the States in terms of placing kids into banking, I have never met a kid from Queen's in the industry, and only one from McGill (he was a physics major, though, and I actually had no idea that McGill even had an undergraduate b-school to be honest with you).

As CDNmonkey mentioned, look at the thread above it has great information. I was also considering going to Queen's or McGill but let me tell you in terms of recruiting there is a huge difference between Ivey and the other schools. If you do well at Ivey you can easily go the US for banking on the east coast/west coast and work in some top groups.

Even though you haven't included Waterloo in your list, I can tell you that there are atleast a dozen of us going into trading (mostly in US) from Waterloo. There are co-op and full-time opportunities in Tokyo, London, New York and Toronto.

You should seriously check out opportunities at Waterloo.

Ivey by FAR

(massive Gap)

Queens McGill

McGill does well in the US because they have a lot of US students in teh program vs. Ivey.

Thanks everyone for your input. That thread is really helpful!

I was actually looking at Waterloo's Science and Business program and the Math/CA program. They both looked good, but I noticed them (on a poster) way after deadlines for applications.

Here in Canada Ivey and Queen's seem to be neck and neck according to the university recruiters. However from the comments here and in the other thread, Ivey seems to have a big international presence.

Do you guys think Ivey is 'going down hill' as some people put it?

Queen's vs. Ivey (don't even consider the others)

Education: -at Ivey, you only take business courses in your last 2 years. -at Queen's, you take all business courses for all 4 years. -As a result, Queen's students have better finance knowledge and technical skills (in general).

-Another huge difference: Ivey is case-based whereas Queen's is not, which can be good or bad depending on what you like.

Reputation: -Ivey is better known in the US, though Queen's is very highly regarded by those who have recruited there/know some alums. -Arguable who is better in Canada. Very close.

Recruiting (Canada): -Almost all of the firms come to both Ivey and Queen's...sometimes McGill.

Recruiting (US): -Ivey gets a few more, but Queen's gets GS, MS, CS, ML, JPM, UBS etc. so it's not like you wouldn't have a chance at those.

Ivey, Queen's or McGill.

I know specifically that recruiters at McGill this year included GS, CS, Lazard, JPM, ML, MS and most of the Canadian banks for summer and/or FT positions

Ivey is not going downhill at the undergrad level. The HBA is extremely strong, but you could argue that the MBA has weakened after a switch to the one year program.

Please man. There are way too many Queens + Ivey grads on this forum for the responses here not to be incredulously jaundiced.

Don't discount McGill. Toronto guys have a tough time grappling with the fact that McGill has indeed very strong placement in New York & London (Toronto is an up-hill battle simply because of their proclivity towards students from Toronto). In terms of their finance program, I would say its better than Queen's and Ivey's in that it is far and beyond more technical. They make them take courses joint with the Master's students, and they really come out knowing their shit.

McGill: (10 Finance courses) http://www.mcgill.ca/bcom/course-info/majors/finance/

Ivey http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/hba/hba-ivey-year2-electives-finance.html

Not to say that Ivey & Queens guys aren't good. They're a very very talented lot. They place well too. But their case-based curriculum is not nearly as rigorous as McGill's, whose students tend to be a lot more quantitatively inclined.

I know a lot of people who went through recruiting this year at McGill. So here's a rough list of who recruited on campus:

UBS - Toronto, LA, NY Morgan Stanley - Toronto Goldman Sachs - Several Offices JP Morgan - Toronto & NY Credit Suisse - Toronto Citibank - Toronto & NY Lazard - Montreal, Toronto, NY CPP - Toronto CIBC - Several Locations RBC - Several Locations TD - Several Locations including NY National Bank - Several Locations BMO - Several Locations Genuity Capital - Several Locations Scotia Capital - Several Locations

Amongst many others. If we want to talk non-IB: McKinsey, BCG, Mercer, Mercer Oliver Wyman, and a few more came as well.

Thanks for everyone's opinions!

Shizzy, are you from McGill? That's a pretty detailed list you wrote!

No, I actually go to McGill's rival school in Montreal. Our campus is a 15 minute walk away from theirs, so I have tons of friends there.

Are you sure UBS NY/LA were there?

I thought there were some Visa issues with Canadians..

LA was there for summer analyst positions, I know that for sure. As for NY, I know of a guy from McGill joining them full-time this july. He is American, though. Don't know about the Visa issues.

So, do BB's hire for S&T from Canada? Yes.

Which schools are most recruited? The schools with the most trading recruiting action are most likely the schools that have the best investment banking recruiting. Firms recruit for banking or banking & S&T, but rarely S&T alone.

That being said, you will probably have the best chance if you go to Ivey. It has, hands down, the best undergraduate finance recruiting in Canada. Queens and McGill are also options, but Ivey is your best bet. (Check out UBC, too. I hear great things about their portfolio management program.)

BB's do not do formal recruiting in non-business programs in Canada.

Would a person from a Canadian uni be stuck in Canada? No. If you do get recruited for S&T, it'll most likely be in NY, as that is where most of the BB firms have their American operations headquartered. There are some smaller sales roles and desks in Canada, but those are more susceptible to economic downturns; banks tend to close up their branch operations and withdraw back to NY when times are bad. If you end up at those offices in TO, however, S&T isn't a 2yr-and-out kind of thing, so you can request a transfer within the company, provided you've done a good job.

Awesome. Thanks for the input.

I would say that the experience in S&T is very different from the one you would get from IBD. Though others say if you're good, you'll get offers from both, I am more in favor of someone who knows what they want, and won't dabble in other stuff. Start by looking over the website below, I think it would provide a good perspective to someone in your shoes, who is still in secondary school.

For the question about sports, focus on what you have, not won't have. That's more important when applying for internships/full-time spots.

Regarding a career at an investment bank vs. law or medical school, they're definitely different. You should take a minute to think about what you really want, and explore these ideas in your first couple of months in college. I thought about corporate law a while back and chose to join a corporate finance practice because I found a better fit with the career and mindset.

For school choice, just get into the school with the most value to you. From there, make the most of the network by reaching out to alums early, and have a story to tell about why a career at an investment bank.

+JPMorgan, Campus Recruiting (High School) http://usibcareers.jpmorgan.com/content/content_330.html

"How hard is it to get into IB from these Canadian Schools? I heard that you need almost perfect GPA, president of 3-4 organizations, work experience, top varsity athlete, exceptional interview skills..."

If that was true almost no one from the aforementioned schools would have gotten into ibanking, since I dont know anyone who did all those things. I'm a second year at Schulich and was in a similar position to you back in grade 12. I knew that Ivey was tops for ibanking but thought it was too risky since you needed to maintain an A average in the first two years, otherwise they kick you out of AEO and your stuck with a crappy BA from Western. My recommendation is this, go to either Queens or Schulich(also consider McGill, that place probably has a better rep with americans than even Ivey). And then if you are not happy with your chances or are 100% certain you want to get into a BB in NY then transfer to Ivey for your third year. That way, even if you dont make into Ivey for third year you will still have a degree from a top CDN business program.

thanks, what do you guys think about Waterloo/WLU's Math/Business double degree program for IB/S-T? I also applied to that and will likely get in that

I don't know why people worry so much about the 80% requirement to advance to HBA1... if you can't cut an 80% in arts/science than chances are you aren't going to make it in IB, let alone in NY.

Yeah, I also assume that an 80% at western isnt that hard because its a party school where people have sex every night, I was only not going there because of inflated fees, id rather work my ass off at Schulich, if this doesnt get me into IB, I plan on getting a top-tier MBA or law degree from the US anyway, which will make up for wasting money on ivey and not having to work as hard.

It's way to early to think of law school, MBA, med school etc now, you're only in high school for crying out loud! At least finish your undergrad before you start thinking about them.

It's nice to see that you've set your eyes on investment banking but be warned the reality is that Bay Street only hires a few per year and the chances of ending up on Wall Street from a Canadian school are even smaller. Going to Schulich isn't going to increase your chances. I don't know why so many high school kids think it's a "top tier" school along with Ivey/Queens because from the perspective of recruiters it isn't.

Aite, there's a couple of things to address here:

1) "How hard is it to get into IB from these Canadian Schools? I heard that you need almost perfect GPA, president of 3-4 organizations, work experience, top varsity athlete, exceptional interview skills..."

That is just ridiculous. I came from a non-target Canadian school and we had more then a few IB anaysts come out of our program with nothing nearly close to this (well one kid was). My friend just finished his IB analyst stint with BMO and outside of finance, booze and girls I'm not sure what other interest he had. Just know your finance really well and get a GPA of at least 3.5 and you'll be fine. Coming from a target school like the ones you mentioned plus internship/work experience will also help. And getting an internship is more likely if you're form a target so again... that helps...a lot.

2) Ivey is by far the most prestigious. McGill and Queens are right behind. If you want Wall Street though your best bet is Ivey. But even then it's very unlikely to happen straight out of Ivey but likely after a few years work experience. A friend of mine's ex-gf went to Ivey, then worked as an IB analyst at National Bank of Canada and now works at a boutique shop in Manhattan. Also, Goldman's Toronto division hires heavily from Ivey. More so than any other Ontario school. Schulich is also pretty good, but your best bet is those three and then "second-tiers" like Schulich, UBC etc...

3) I don't know where you get that being a lawyer is less stressful. You still have to do a buttload of work and you get paid less than an IB analyst. And the work is (arguably) much less interesting.

4) Make sure you choose the right major with what you want to do. If you want into S&T a quanty type major (Physics, Math, Economics) will be of much more use to you than a straight business degree. But if you want IB than straight business degree is probably more useful but i mean in your undergrad it's all very speculative. My suggestion is that you do whatever you like most.

5) Basically it all boils down to this. To work in the States you need a Visa. Getting a work Visa is very hard and much harder than after 9/11. For an employer to sponsor you, they have to provide evidence that they can't hire an American kid to do the same job. And if you think there isn't an American kid from Harvard/Princeton/Columbia/Yale that can't do the same monkey work as you, you're mistaken. Your best bet of getting into Wall Street after your undergrad is to go to an American Ivy (sorry but it's true). As a Canadian though after either several years of work experience or a Masters degree in a certain subject (Economics for example, but not Business or Finance) you are eligible for a TN-1 Visa which is theoretically easier to get. So there's always a way in if you go the non-American route.

Good luck.

yea, I knew someone was going to say that, thats why I am already prepared to finish undergrad business at Schulich and then get a top US MBA so i can be on wall street. And I am assuming that i will have to do this:

"perfect GPA, president of 3-4 organizations, work experience, top varsity athlete, exceptional interview skills..."

to get there...

I am prepared to do this when I start in fall 2008, because there is no chance I am going to Ivey, and very little chance that I will be going to Queens.

Why don't you just take out a loan? If you are confident in your abilities Queens/Ivey will pay off. I'm not so hot on Schulich and I second everyone on this board who wonders why every HS student thinks that Schulich is amazing. Have you looked at Rotman? They have some great professors and a trading lab which is very cool.

Im talking about undergrad, and there is no rotman undergrad. But I dont want a loan, id rather kill myself then be slave to the lender. Do you know the interest rate? if something happens to me and I dont get into IB, do you know how long it will take me to pay my initial $90000 debt? what about when it compounds to $120k? $150? Id definately kill myself. If i have to take out a loan for harvard or wharton, now thats something I'd do.

AS for schulich, Im not sure why HS students think its amazing, I personally do not, but I think that Its still a top program behind Queens/ivey, its way cheaper and has better automatic scholarships, and I dont have to move anywhere. And if Im going to be good there, I am going to be fine.

I think your propensity to avoid loans has more to do with your self confidence rather than the cost of a loan. A loan is different from credit card debt. Firstly, don't hate on finance...after all, this is the field you want to get into. Secondly, taking out a loan to study specific programs (finance, accounting, med, law, etc.) makes perfect sense since the payoff is easy to estimate. I don't think you are realizing the difference in quality in recruiting for Ivey/Queens vs. Schulich.

I took out loans to go to university and they definately paid off.

let the kid do whatever he wants however he wants. he talks too much for a 17 year old kid who knows nothing about how the system operates.

I agree with you pineapple, we need to start flagging these users. I tracked his posts, and in some cases he has been giving other monkeys on this board advice regarding which MBA schools to apply to...

Needless to say, he does talk too much,

Mr. Canuck

I have 8 posts in total (9 if you count this one)...

I never did this:

"I tracked his posts, and in some cases he has been giving other monkeys on this board advice regarding which MBA schools to apply to..."

I'm not mad at you, I'm just wondering when did I suggest anything about other people's MBA schools? I never even posted on a thread where some1 is asking for MBA advice...

Getting to NY from a Canadian school is tough. The Visa issues are one concern, but getting recruited is the real bottleneck. I believe there was one analyst this year in my NY BB that went to a Canadian school out of about 300 IBD analysts. I think that analyst was American, but can't confirm right now. There are definetely Canadians working in NYC, but most of them went to American schools. My advice - apply to the US target schools if you want to be at a BB in New York. Although cost is an issue, most have financial aid and scholarships if you qualify. Watch out for deadlines, many have already passed, and the rest are quickly approaching. If you miss the deadlines, you can also apply as a transfer student later.

The Canadian investment banking market is very small on a global scale. A lot of the work is outsourced to new york because the bigger deals need a lot of finacing, and the US Dollar investor market is much larger than the Canadian dollar investor market. From another post, the poster estimated about approx. 400 bankers total in Toronto (which i think is a fair estimate). A back of the envelope guess would be about 20-40 analysts get hired total per year in Toronto. (my bank hired 2, and I would assume the Canadian banks would hire more). The competition to get in is tough, and spend some time in school to explore different options, and if investment banking is still what you want to do, be prepared to work hard to fight for a position.

Consider student loans or private loans for university. A good education is a solid investment. Enjoy the rest of high school, and it's great to be thinking early and being prepared. Looking back, I kinda wished I was this prepared in high school.

Ivey and Queens are number 1 for New York and Toronto(in Canada) and McGill can be added to that list for New York (the big five in Toronto don't consider them as much a target as Ivey,Queens, UofT and Schulich due to it being located in Quebec).

Also mrcanuck, I don't think Schulich is as bad as you are making it seem. Clearly Ivey, McGill and Queens are number 1 but my older brother is currently there and I have seen there career centre posts: all the big five and most of the boutiques in Toronto have posted for SA and FT and hold information sessions regulary and all of the BBs (except GS and CS for undergraduates) have posted for FT in either Toronto and New York (lehman and UBS) positions this past year. also the founder of Greenhill (Toronto), former CEO of MS Canada, current CEO of UBS and ML (Canada) etc at the top of my head are schulich grads.

I'm at University of Toronto T St. George Commerce (not Rotman thats MBA) and it seems many of the people I have met here are Ivey, Queens and Schulich rejects. I wouldn't recommend it if you get into Ivey or something instead but we still have good placements.

frankly you will find it tough with your GPA. Furthermore, after the top 5 business schools in the US, it's not worth it. better to stay in Canada and try to get into aa top 5 Canadian school, which will also be tough with your GPA. Going to the US is not the answer to your problems.