Canadians on Wall Street
Hi all;
I am wondering if any of you who are in the industry have come across Canadians in your work. If you have, I would appreciate anything you could tell me about your impressions of the quality of their work or training. Also, unofficially of course, what is the general attitude towards these bankers having not had the same undergraduate experience as the majority of The Street.
So you know where I'm coming from with this question, I am a Canadian university junior who will be starting a finance specialization in the fall. I was recently admitted to one of the highest ranked schools in the country with a fairly high GPA. I accepted on the promise that they have the resources to help me achieve my goal of working on Wall Street.
I have read the stats that I have been able to find, and know that this particular school places about 10% of the graduating class each year into finance. This works out to about 45 students, of which 15-25% end up working in the States.
What I am trying to decide is if the students that my school has placed at major firms (Goldman, JP Morgan) are merely single miraculous success stories flaunted to draw talent, or if it seems like there is a realistic chance of actually pulling this feat off some day.
Any insights or experiences you can share on Canadian bankers on the street would be much appreciated.
What school?
the Ivey School of Business at the University of Western Ontario
You've got a shot. Difficult, and I wouldn't count on Goldman or JPM, but you've got a shot if you finish top 5 in your HBA section. Your chances are better at Ivey than anywhere else.
Ivey places well in the U.S. relative to other Canadian schools, but you're right in thinking that recruitment from the big name I-banks are the exception rather than the norm. I've met 2 people from Canada that ended up at Goldman Sachs post undergrad - One was a Saudi princess and the other was the daughter of the CEO of one of the Big 5 Canadian banks.
Ivey does well with M/B/B, why not work consulting for a few years and then go to Harvard for an MBA?
It's actually less of a stretch than surferdude is making it out to be... I know a decent number of people that went on to BB firms in my year and the ones prior/after it. If you count LA/SF as well (where CS is big on Ivey), then there's even more.
But you still have to be pretty strong (I'm going to say... top 5%-10%, maybe top 15% to land a fair shot. Some that weren't as good have managed it too. But I was from the pre-credit crisis era, so things might have changed since. For instance, my estimates are based on my class size (300). Ivey has been super aggressive in expanding their class sizes - essentially diluting the program over time. So if you've got like 400 or 500 people now, I would say at top 5% then to be competitive. Esp since wall street is also without a few banks now...
could you please clarify if you're talking about people from canada or using the universal code for black people
GS will interview Ivey students with 86%+ which is about 10% of the people. Other BB's interview students with 82%+
Suferdude: An MBA is definitely a goal of mine, I just haven't decided the best way to go about it for me yet. I imagine that path will become clearer after the coming year.
Kanon: I'm in a class of about 450, which makes me a little jealous of you. I know I'm nowhere near the bottom of the accepted kids, but am not sure where the top is either. Were there many 90% average kids when you were there?
Rooster: lol no, I am talking about ALL Canadians. No racism intended or implied.
Jrotmensen: Thanks, it's good to have some sort of tangible goal.
Swarley, the u.s is moving towards higher taxes and more regulation and Canada is moving towards lower taxes and less regulation. Maybe you should assess the move based on the present and future, 04-07 were great years everyone made money, but these days may not come back in a good while - especially if new regulation cuts bank profits by 20-50% (street estimates).
Ivey is a great program, I saw lots of people on bay street that went there.
Ivey placed at least 8 kids into Goldman this summer including IBD, S&T, and GS Investment Partners. Several into CS, Moelis, JPM, etc. as well. That being said, there are people with ridiculously high averages who don't land any job at all.
You should be fine though - make sure you spew out some top quality bullshit throughout the year and get an 85%+ average in HBA1.
(I'm not making up numbers like most of the people on WSO, I actually do go to Ivey)
.
I agree with a341's comments. Generally for summer internships, 85% and up averages are needed.
I was at Ivey when the 78-average in 1st year rule was still in effect (as in - there is a hard average set for each course to hover around 78). So if you got something like 83/84 and up in your first year, you'd get some looks. I heard they changed the rule now so 1st year class averages hover around 80 (a341 maybe you can tell me if this is true, as I've been a bit out of the loop), so having 85 and up sounds about right.
8-9 in GS summer is extremely high though. Nicely done. When I was there, I think there were only 2-4 max in GS, and it was mostly CS/UBS LA and a few at JPM. Must be nice to be in the 2011 graduating year where banks are starting to ramp up again, and it's good to hear the Ivey ramp-up in class size hasn't caused any issues - at least in the short term it seems.
Oh and Swarley - on the 90% averages... I assume you're asking me if there's 90% averages once you're in Ivey? Maybe for one or two courses it's possible to score that high, but I don't think I've ever met anyone in my year that managed a 90% average either during mid-year or even year-end. I've met some with high 80s before though.
It's near-impossible, because of the Ivey system. A big part of your marks is participation, a good chunk is from 48 hour reports (where you work in teams with random people), exams are case studies and the marking is not completely objective unless it's a calculation-heavy process like finance or man sci. Because there are things out of your control (e.g., 48 hr reports - quality of report is also dependent on the quality of your team), it makes it difficult to get 90% like in more traditional academic systems. Ivey is more reflective of real life - for example, sometimes the really good bullshitters can get ahead in class. But as with most things, if you're well-rounded (technical understanding and speak up in class), you'll do fine.
The TS suggested he wanted to work on Wall Street, so for me that means NYC... I left out CS/UBS and the boutiques in San Francisco and Los Angeles.
Look at permanent placement statistics for the 2009 HBA class. Out of 450 students, 92% received offers = 414. Of those 414, 3% ended up in NYC = roughly 12.
At the more "prestigious" firms, your own prestige level is very important, especially when coming from out of country. What's your last name? Who is your father/grandfather? What kind of connections can you bring to the firm? These questions become extremely relevant in high finance, especially when you're coming from a school where the overall average is a predetermined 78%.
Like I said, you've got a shot, but it's very difficult.
Thanks everyone, this is some good info. I guess I'll have to bust my ass a little harder to get there, coming from Canada. We'll see how the year shapes up
Quidem aut sit sequi mollitia culpa ratione. Ut error ex veritatis debitis. Dolore pariatur laboriosam accusamus minima excepturi itaque suscipit. Voluptas vitae sed facere nisi consequatur harum alias.
Non et ab quia et sed. Quaerat saepe maxime voluptas quos nobis itaque.
Quis quam provident velit voluptate aut laborum veniam. Quia et est voluptates reiciendis id placeat optio. Fugiat vitae culpa ut consequatur odio voluptas. Tempora consectetur doloremque autem.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...