Career Transition Insight/Advice Requested - Targeting PB/PWM
Guys/Gals
I'm in a career transition from being an analyst in a non-finance discipline (USG) to PB/PWM. I realize that it's not IB/S&T/PE/VC. At this stage, I know for a fact I want to work in investment management but do not want to necessarily let my quality of life go down the tubes for 6-8 years while I make my bones. I'm fairly certain that would be a sure way for me to lose my mind and likely my wife in the interim. I realize that this means a number of things (from reviewing a multitude of posts on WSO): lower salary, the perception of less prestige, time to build up a book of business, the need to network out the wazoo, etc. I also realize that some might ask why this space and why now. Quite simply, I've wanted to do this for years but the roof was caving in when I wanted to start this process and no one was advising anyone to jump ship from anywhere that was somewhat stable.
What is less obvious is the path to get to there from here. From what I've read on WSO, an MBA is not necessarily a deal breaker and in PB/PWM not really necessary (just what I've read). I already have an MS and 3 languages under my belt but again, in a non-finance but analytical field and IF this is not a deal breaker, I would rather forego what could potentially be 3+ years of ball busting and more loans to accomplish the goal and then learn that it wasn't completely necessary. That being said, I am engaged in networking on LinkedIn to obtain as many information-interviews as possible, looking into a compressed/intensive course in Corp Fin, Accounting, and modeling as some have described elsewhere via one of the more reputable sources e.g. TTS, AMT, WSP, BIWS to bridge the gap so to speak and to give myself some stronger footing and a better foundation in accounting/finance.
At this point, what I would really like is some constructive criticism/insight/advice into whether the above appears to be a decent method of attack or not. If not, what would you advise? I would ultimately like to work for a larger bank that has a decent international presence like Deutsche Bank, Credit Suisse, HSBC, Citi. I would like to know how realistic it would be for a career changer to make that jump or if it would be better if I targeted a regional bank in Wealth Management and move when I've accumulated more experience. I ask because I obviously don't have a good sense for what the actual ground truth is. That is why I'm turning to folks wiser than I.
Thoughts?
First, you need to figure out if you want to do PB or PWM, they are totally different animals. The PWM is much more entrepreneurial (Credit Suisse, DB, Barclays, etc.) than PB (JP Morgan, Citi, etc). There is little difference between 'retail brokerage' and PWM in what you are responsible for (prospecting is your main job). However, they do tend to go for MBAs at the PWM shops and give you an MBA level salary for a couple of years. If you go to retail, the draw is pretty low. The private bankers get fed clients from the bank and are salary and bonus, meaning the ceiling is much lower.
I don't do this for a living, but I have many friends who do and love it. I don't buy into the prestige argument, not because I think PWM lacks prestige per se, more that I don't think prestige exists on wall street by title anymore. If you are making money, that's enough prestige for me.
Scroll to the bottom of this link for some other thoughts. //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ib-vs-pwm-longrun-comp-lifestyle
SirPoopsaLot
You've brought something up that I've found confusing in speaking with folks employed in this space - if there's a difference between PB and PWM other than the level of investable assets the client has and how these shops fit into which sections of which different categories of bank/wm firms. Regarding the degree, I'm obviously not opposed to more education. The question is - at whose expense - mine or an employer's after I've gotten in the door. In any case, I certainly appreciate you directing me to that thread. That helps fill in a fair amount of blanks. In all honesty, I am not looking for the "master of the universe" type gig. I've already done a number of cool things in my current profession but haven't necessarily been compensated accordingly. What I am interested in is working with people, studying different products, keeping up with the market at the macro and micro level to a certain extent, and yes, better compensation but not anything obscene. Your description of both camps PB & PWM have interesting facets IMO. That being said, I would like to hear even more in depth if you're amenable. Either way, I am grateful for the breakdown you've given so far.
By the way, many of the guys in PWM do make a lot of money (also, many don't last). Part of the reason that PWM likely gets no love in a place like this is that it is an almost impossible job for someone under the age of 28-30 to start in PWM as rich people don't like to give their money to 'kids'.
What else specifically do you want to know?
Well first of all, is the MBA a deal breaker in either discipline for both PB and PWM? I ask mainly because even if I were to begin ASAP, this would take another 3 years because I don't have the luxury of working full time and being able to complete the task any sooner. That is why in my OP I mentioned that I was trying to determine if there were other methods of getting in the door that might not take as much time. Would for example doing the CFP in tandem with some other relevant courses provided by some of more reputable training shops + networking be a viable option(s)? Or, would starting at an outfit like a regional bank or wirehouse with a wealth management shop be a potential waystation and foot-in-the-door opportunity with exit opportunities a few years thereafter? Again, I'm looking to see what the most efficient path would be in terms of time/money would be without getting stuck in an Edward Jones/Raymond James type scenario (no disrespect). As for the age factor, I'm already in my 30s. So, I'm not necessarily starting out in a career, just this career. I realize that I would be working my way up but hopefully not the same as someone who is fresh out of UG. I also realize this means paying some dues as well. I haven't filled myself with delusions of 0 - MD in no time flat.
I take your points about ability to sell; I've just received mixed messages on whether or not the MBA is necessary in this particular arena, although I defer to you as you obviously have a more thorough understanding of the landscape than I.
Could you speak about the PB end of the same question - e.g. what the barriers to entry are. I also realize that folks need to be able to sell and thus the reason for investors in this space not wanting to trust someone they perceive to be less capable/trustworthy. That being said, folks in this space must have begun somewhere.
I guess in light of my circumstances, I'm still trying to figure out the most efficient plan of attack. If it is in fact an MBA or nothing, I'm willing to adapt and make things happen but only if it's an all or nothing sort of scenario. I know a lot of folks feel that the MBA is the prescription for all in career transition. I don't know which is the truth or is there some middle ground?
The MBA wouldn't matter unless it was full-time anyway for those spots, because that is for a class recruit that starts out dozens of people in the fall each year. I know they generally take a few people each year into many of these classes each year wo do not have MBAs, but they always have some kind of sales experience and usually with rich people (think like a Trust and Estate attorney).
I believe most places won't care about CFA or CFP either. What all will care about on the PWM side is how are you going to generate $1 million in revenue for the firm inside of two years? The minimum targets will be lower after two years, but they will want to know what your marketing plan is and how many of those people do you currently have solid relationships with TODAY.
I know people that are $5 million producers who are not remotely financial experts. I think you are focusing a lot on training on the financial side of things and the people hiring you will be much more focused on selling ability and current network. Finance isn't that complicated and being an adviser means you just have to know a bit more than your clients (who are not financial professionals) or be able to use the internal resources effectively (meaning, there will be many financial experts who you can lean on). Within 6 months, you should be able to come across as relatively knowledgeable to clients, even if you know just a little bit about a lot of things. You need a lot of sound bites .
I don't have a real good sense of how the private banks recruit and who they target. I have dealt much more with the PWM commission based sales people. However, I have heard that Bernstein looks for experienced people who could sell anything to anyone. They are known for having the most comprehensive training program out there. However, I have also heard the payouts tend to be lower.
Do you know anyone at any of these shops? It would be good to get in touch with them to see how their firm specifically handles people in your situation who wants to swing the bat. Also, places like Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley hire tons of people all the time with all sorts of backgrounds. Basically, they just let them loose and see who makes it. Most are gone within 12 months, which will be true for PWM sales people as well (although the time frame is generally 24 months, instead of 12). If you are highly confident in your abilities to raise money, you should be able to land something like that.
I hope this helps a little. Good luck.
SPAL,
Thanks again. This does give me a better picture of the PWM side. I don't have anyone in my network at Bernstein. Most of the folks in my network (I use that term loosely since it's LinkedIn) are at varying levels at Credit Suisse, HSBC, Deutsche Bank, PNC, Bessemer, and UBS. Of those contacts, the gist of their message has been some obvious feedback like network your a$$ off, look into the CIMA designation or similar to lend credibility to your resume, and just start the resume process/cold calling/emailing. I'm hesitant to just start cold emailing/mailing my resume and cover letter because of the perception of there being far too many folks trying to get into this space who are: already licensed, may already have an MBA or MS in a finance related field, and a book of business etc. I've also been tweaking my resume in an effort to tone down the past and play up what I'm doing to make this transition. It's a work in progress. I realize that in IB, there is an almost set-in-stone path from which many do not deviate since the process is so rigid e.g. MBA at to 10-15 B-School, internship(s), network, full time offer. I've run into no one who has given me the impression that in the PB or PWM space who would say there are hard and fast requirements in terms of degree, experience and skills other than intelligence, sales acumen, and a solid network. The network part I find difficult only because you have to start out somewhere. The sales acumen, people skills, being an excellent communicator, etc. are all there. I know enough about being out there that in most industries it's usually a personal connection that gives you the introduction. That's what I need are the introductions. I know that for all intents and purposes that is one of THE major reasons for doing an MBA. I'm confident that given the introduction(s), I would not have much trouble selling myself. The first step is the most difficult hurdle in my experience so far. I haven't done anything other than "informational interviews" so far.
With regard to Merrill and Morgan Stanley, I've heard the same and have seen there adverts in several places. I'm tempted to look there as well. Again, I'm not trying to swing for the fences on the first try but also need a living wage. I know that's up to interpretation but if you live in DC or insert other high rent Metro area, you know firsthand that a living wage is a lot more of a concern than elsewhere.
You've given me a lot to chew on, Master Poopsalot. I am appreciative.
Best of luck to you.
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