Any of you guys look back to your college days and think, "Man I cannot believe I built this job up so much and prayed to be here." Is it just us college kids who glorify the life and when you actually get there you realize its all the same shit, it doesn't matter what you do?
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it has nothing to do with glamour, it's about career flexibility/exit opps
"glorify the life" are you fucking kidding me. we are going to be working 100 hour weeks, theres nothing glorious about that. im still a junior and im trying to savour every last moment in college.
Correction, 100+ hours a week
I am a graduating senior and I interviewed with only one Bank and made it all the way to the final round before getting dinged... It was a BB firm one of the best... I must say that interviewing, as I was flown up there twice really really gave me a tip of the iceberg of being in Ibanking and it is every thing I have dreamt of... I cannot wait to give it my all next recruiting season and switch from consulting... what is sad is that though I was very prepared I got played because I was one from a non-target, and two I had no alumni presence on wallstreet... but I aced all my 10 interviews and it still did not matter... it is really a close knit field and those fortunate to make it had better embrace it cause many would do anything to be where u guys are
There's no glamor unless you consider a real estate broker's job glamorous. A real estate broker to Donald Trump. Is that glamorous?
Real estate brokers at investment banks are called real estate investment bankers.
Contrary to popular belief, there aren't that many exit opportunities. There are exit opportunities in finance, but that's just because i-banking is almost the only standardized entry-level career path in finance.
Nobody will dream of hiring an investment banker for much of anything else. They can't do real accounting, they can't run companies, and most of them aren't skilled in things like economics, risk management, engineering, writing, or even sales.
Investment banking is not that intellectually challenging either at the lower levels. The high GPA required is used to filter out people who turn things in on time, in good packaging, and in good form. People who show up to class, go to office hours, etc.
Doesn't it make sense that working in the field of "finance" would tend to lead to "finance" exit ops? I guess it’s similar to the way Big 4 exit ops are generally for accounting jobs.
I honestly feel like those 2 paragraphs are similar to telling a doctor that it’s not a great idea to become a dentist because later in life you won't be hired as a cardiologist...
Nobody would think of hiring a doctor to design bridges either.
IB gives you the best exit opps. in finance, which is the area most analysts hope to make their careers in. Not risk management or entrepreneurship.
I think what Sabrine is trying to get at is that there are very limited actual "exit opportunities" after i-banking, because as an analyst, your skill set is very limited. Most people on this board think very narrowly about "exit opps" only in terms of Private Equity and Hedge Funds. These are only two industries, and not believe it or not, not everyone in Finance wants to go into them.
1) I know people that were analysts who moved into F500 Corp. Finance, Traditional Asset Management (mutual funds), Strategy Consulting and even started their own companies after their analyst program. Not everyone goes into the buyside.
2) The reason PE/HF are the most common exit opps is because most of the analysts want to do it. Nobody is forcing them to go into the buyside, but most people want to because they find them to be more desirable than other fields. It is a bit unfair to say you can "only" go into PE/HF after your analyst program.
3) There was a survey published in CFO magazine a year or so ago that asked current CFOs in the Fortune 1000 what their first job out of undergrad was. I believe around 25-30% of them responded saying it was IB.
Again, this just goes to show that within the field of finance, I don't know of any other starting job that opens up more doors or gives you a better start than IB. Any job will limit you in terms of the types of opportunities that you can pursue later on.
Eh, I'd rather do Corp Finance at McKinsey.
Well I never said you can "only" go to PE/HF after being an analyst. I simply said most people on this board look at those as the only "exit opps" from banking.
While I'm not familiar with the survey you mentioned, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of the CFOs obtained their MBA after their analyst stint.
"Investment banking is not that intellectually challenging either at the lower levels. The high GPA required is used to filter out people who turn things in on time, in good packaging, and in good form. People who show up to class, go to office hours, etc."
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. interesting.
In terms of exit opportunities, I'd say consulting has more. Consulting can send you into industry, finance, b-school, government, non-profit work, and all sorts of stuff. I'm also quite certain the vast majority of CFOs did not go through entry-level i-banking.
sure, consulting exit opps have more breadth. but, if you want to go into pe or a hedge fund, the ib analyst path is still you're best bet. don't get me wrong, the banking lifestyle is miserable, but if you're a finance guy who wants to stay in finance, it offers the best exit opps. the pay isn't bad either...
I'm not a banker, but I think banking is overrated. ER to HF >>>>>>>> than crappy banking. More money, less hours, better work ex. for the capital markets, no pitching.
Banking sucks.
The pay for analysts, by the way, -- and I know this for a huge fact -- is not nearly as high as you may think. Face it -- entry-level grunts aren't worth much and they ultimately don't add much value to the operations. Finance people are the first to know that.
Most of my friends in that profession (with me included in private equity) are not living with savings. It's only bonus season and tax return season that give us some breathing room. We're living better than other entry-levelers in, say, marketing, publishing, etc, but believe me, only the first paycheck feels generous.
The thing is that banker salaries operate on a tournament compensation scheme. That's how they motivate you -- the winners get rewarded a LOT. The losers are actually underpaid. And there are only a few winners. This survivorship bias significantly distorts the average compensation package.
And trust me, with all you people trying to get in, there is no rock solid way. The truth is that just looking at fresh grads does not reveal anything. You can't separate winners from losers by looking at them. So firms take chances and use tournament compensation to motivate all and separate the cream. Most will end up losers, quietly leaving after a year or two years without collecting a bonus or a very mediocre one that barely puts it above $75,000.
Base salary, no matter what others tell you, first year is $55 to $75. Bonus is around $10 to $20. Don't let anybody fool you otherwise -- those higher numbers are not the "average".
Heh, the truth. I love how everyone thinks they're going to be making 150K their first year. Please.
The exit opps aren't the greatest. You go into finance and that's about it. Some people go into Corp Dev., but very few. Check the rosters of B-schools and they're filled with entrepreneurs, consultants, industry-folk. There are bankers, but very few compared to the total analyst classes at these BBs. By comparison, 10% of the incoming class at HBS is McKinsey.
It's an above-average job out of college. And that's all there is to it.
What bonus is 10 to 20?!?! I thought I always hear bonus is from 60-80?!
Sabrine, I'd suggest you stop making such strong claims if you don't know much about the industry.
who told you that bonuses were between 10-20k/yr? are you kidding me?....
i-bnking is overrated, i don't disagree....not much glamour at the junior level....it's a lot of bs and tedious work, but the pay is there, and i don't know of any analysts that didn't make 100k+ in their first year....
people come on here to educate themselves on the industry, so stop feeding bs
I know quite a few that made significantly less than 100k. Her "opinions" on the matter are observed, not conjecture.
Think about it kid, what real value can an entry level, almost no experience worker like you add except free slavery? Why should I shell out 150K to pay an empty, barely useless kid like you that's main value added is diligence, ambition, excel tinkering and undergrad finance/accounting knowledge?
You aren't an experienced deal maker and you won't wow any of the hares with your "vast nonexistent experience".
She imay seem bitter and cynical, but isn't telling fairy tales.
AS in life, most people, EVEN those that graduate from the ivy league (dare I say it), aren't brilliant and won't have a fantastic, fairytale future in the the field that they are in. Most of them will end up making six figures and dying in a maghony coffin as a chevy hearse drives away their corpse.
They are either simply not intelligent enough or not interested enough.
Or, they could be one of those Ivy-leagers/first tier college aces that did well in whatever b/c they simply put far more time than anyone else. You know what I mean when I say this, the average kid that get ahead because he sacrifices more than his peers. Not inherently better. Not potentially better. In the end, natural brilliance, talent, combined with hard work is what matters. Not the intellectually challenged but super hard working joe scmuck.
BS is exactly what you've been fed.
In any case, you're a Canadian banker from University of Toronto? My step-brother went there (Vic college, lived on St. George, then moved to Yonge and Bloor to work at a Canadian bank). You telling me that all your analysts made over 100k? How many deals did you do last year?
Now, would you agree that entry-level commercial bankers and investment bankers do about the same thing? If so...why are the commercial bankers making 30-40k first year and you're making 3-5x that much? Just give me a good reason.
Commercial bankers also work about 50-60 hour weeks consistently (which, by the way, is really all that's required in I-Banking if you discount the bullshit. The idea is almost like asking some Ivy League kid how much he studies per week. When I was in college, one could argue that we studied constantly and often into the night).
Last year my first year analysts were paid between $60,000 to $90,000 for their end of year bonus. One was paid $40,000 and advised to find another line of work. Median was $75,000, making for all-in comp, inclusive of signing bonus, of $140,000 for the mid bucket.
Top of our third year class received $210,000 all-in compensation, with a median of $190,000.
Let's be clear about how investment banking works: VP+ pay resembles a tournament. Analyst and associate pay does not.
Bankers don't go into HF's that easily. Any hedge fund that values a banker's background similarly values almost any other background that involves thinking about businesses.
HF's that value some other background...like quant-type work...have absolutely no use for an I-Banker.
PE firms, ultimately, still like banking backgrounds. That's really because they do the same thing. PE is not for everybody, by the way, and a lot of people hate it. For somebody to be set on PE and is willing to I-Bank to get it -- that's a very limiting career choice so early. I-Bank to PE is probably the only true "exit opportunity".
And by the way...the chance of you becoming one of the winners is very very small. You may think you're exceptional, but as people get older, the wise ones know they are not and learn to live with such imperfections in life.
Remember, though, that you're not in a pool with the average person. You are not only in a pool of above-average people, but you're in a pool of above-average people who think they are better than YOU.
Take that pool, reward the top 1-2% VERY WELL, and you get a group of young people pulling all nighters, sucking all sorts of ass, and so forth and so on.
sabrine and consulting guy are right. we should all just quit and give up. banking sucks, most of us will be losers, and we wont get paid well.....
we all see through your extremely biased opinion. if banking is as shitty and dead end as you claim, consulting must be in the same boat
It's not shitty. It's just not as golden as you may think.
And besides, most people aren't great in life in general. Nothing to be ashamed of. Most people don't go to the Ivy League. Most people don't make a lot of money. In life, the odds are overwhelmingly against you that you'll become anybody significant. And the same is true in any field. Not all I-Bankers will be rich or in any other way great. Most of the entry-levelers won't be.
bankers live in the office, consultants live in seat 26C next to the bathroom.
By the way, if prospectives reading this thread are judging the profession of banking by what a couple of random people with on an online message board have to say about it, you should re-evaluate your screening criteria.
Learn about the pros/cons of the various career options yourselves, as opposed to taking what Sabrine, or any other poster says as gospel. Everyone's opinion is biased.
Does that mean the one shouldn't try hard to try to go to the best school, land the best job, etc? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on how much you value being great/rich/etc.
If you don't try, you have zero chance. If you try, you have a very small chance.
agreed.
This sabrine is quite real, listen to her, kiddos.
You can talk a lot of shit about ibanking, but the one thing you can't say shit about is the pay. My office and every analyst I know personally pulled in well over 100k in total comp last year. And I guarantee you I know more analysts than you do.
Yes you are going to have a few bad apples who pull in the big donut as a bonus, but the majority will pull in over 100k easily.
Stop living in 2000-2001, bonuses aren't 10-35k anymore.
SternFox, what about those who didn't even go to college and are making more than you are now and more than you will conceivably ever make?
Don't act like only the best, and most intelligent go into IB because that's not true at all. The ones who are truly smart go into business for themselves and make millions if not billions while the ones who wanted to play it safe are gladly working 80+ hours a week for six figures.
Sabrine, are you serious? Didn't you say you graduated from Wharton?
I cannot understand how you can be disputing the fact that almost every analyst at a BB or decent MM got paid over 6 figures last year.
I worked at a very small boutique last summer, and even the 1st years there cleared 100k.
I got into Wharton's MBA right out of college. I never went.
And yes, I am disputing your fact that "almost every analyst at BB or decent MM got paid over 6 figures last year".
Your very small boutique (what, William Blair?) could not possibly have paid that much.
10 analysts cost $1 million. 5 associates would cost $1 million as well? 3 upper-level guys $1 million each? So $5 million in expenses? Add rent, expenses, etc. You're talking a $10 million revenues?
(Note that Evercore only did $96 million of advisory revenues last year, and they paid out $20.5 million to employees, and how many people did they have on staff? Go here and see: http://ir.evercore.com/sec.cfm). God they must have the worst people with such lousy pay.
$10 million revenues, at 1%, means you did $1 billion of deals last year?
Sabrine I think you may be confusing the investment banking division with the Human Resources Department. Yes it is true that first year HR analyst do not make 100k first year out, but we are talking about the investment bankers.
What bank are you at where you can't read a 10k? Look at the AGGREGATED LTM, their revenue is 216m, with 183 coming from advisory. Nice try though.
While I agree with most of Sabrine's points, I can vouch for the fact that all first-year analysts will get over 100K this year. I know what the bonus packages were/are for associates and analyts at my bank, and all the analysts cleared 100K, with no exceptions. That said, your second-year you could end up getting screwed, but most people are covered for the first year (analysts) or 18 months (associates) out of school.
y'all need to come over to London. We do salaries properly over here. Entry level (Analyst 1) salary now ranges from £38-45k from what I've seen. Bonus is more random though - the norm is to get less over here as a multiple of salary but total comp is not bad at all. I always found the North American salaries quite frightening...
Now Sabrine is trying to have people believe that :
most 1st year analyst make less than 100k in total comp
"Bonus is around 10-20k"
"Contrary to popular belief, there aren't that many exit opportunities" out of IB and that nobody will hire an investment banker for much else.
Well, that is false. And guess what, even in 2002 when the bonuses were 20-30k you still had tons of kids from across the country competing for analysts jobs.
There is nothing glamorous about an investment banking analyst. However, it's a pretty good job out of college for people interested in finance and business.
Sabrine claims to have graduated from Wharton and to now work in "PE". Yet in that other thread she was the one claiming that with a 1B equity investment a fund could by a company with 50B in sales, evidencing the fact that she knows jack shit about finance and that her job probably entails mostly photocopying shit.
Basically try to talk to poeple who are actually in IB if you want to learn about IB.
Evercore acquired two companies last year and started counting capital gains distributed to the partners as part of compensation expenses.
My point involved non-equity compensation from their original core advisory businesses as a private firm. Which was around $100 million in revenues with $20.5 million in compensation before the IPO.
I'd assume analysts don't get any piece of the equity distributions.
So the non-equity base and bonus of their employees come out of $20.5 million (for 2/3rds of the year, though, so $30 million for a full year).
They have at least 30 managing directors. How much base do you think they each draw out of the $30 million?
After that, figure out the support staff (50% of firm? secretaries, HR, accounting, etc), VPs, and associates, and then see what's left over for analysts, especially first years. It doesn't feel over $100k.
And last year was a big year. This year, Evercore's going to report a loss.
And besides, guys, who sounds more reasonable among us all?
Me, or statements along the lines of "even at the small boutique I worked at...all analysts cleared $100k" and "almost every single analyst I know cleared $100k easily first year".
I'm certain most of you don't have any work experience. As a matter of fact, I'm done with this place. I'm not learning much, and apparently, you all know the industry very well.
ok, one more post.
If that $20/hr theory's correct, why not hire 2 guys and them work 50 hours each? They'd be fresher and more focused at work.
I stand by my understanding that the potential of very high pay serves only as reward for the top few, thereby motivating everybody and subsequently making losers (the most who don't hit the top few) underpaid.
Thus, compensation is highly unequal within the analyst classes (no "everybody making $150k"). That's whole point of the game. They want you to compete. They rank you. They pit you against one another.
The top few will hit the $150k. The rest sit below $100k. The losers won't reveal that openly, of course, if you ask -- for they are the losers. The winners, ironically, have incentive to downplay their pay. Since there's more losers than winners, you may hear (always from self reports) of very large pay.
And this scheme works. Look at all the people trying to get in! They hear of the one guy who made $150 right out of college. Yet most people don't get in. Those of us who are fooled keep buying into it. When one league gets disillusioned, another fresh generation goes through the same thing.
Believe me, bankers are the first people to underpay you in the world. They aren't overpaying analysts. The smarter ones should be asking how it works.
It is absolutely ridiculous from any common sense point of view that "most analysts at most respectable places" make $150k right out of college. Think about it. It makes no sense. Why do you keep believing it? Have you really seen the bank accounts of anybody? Were YOU paid that much (be honest here)?
Your "reasoning" sucks. You're arguing with people who actually work in the business. Everyone knows that a bottom bucket bonus at a good firm still puts you at 105k all-in. Shut the fuck up and leave.
Everyone knows the top bucket analysts make 150k. No one is disputing that there are not a lot who are in the top bucket. But the people who are in the 2nd bucket and the other buckets still make over 100k. According to your theory, after the analysts gets their 60k base + 10k bonus, their end of year bonus is less than 30k?! People in the back and mid-office even get 10 or 15k end of year bonus, and you honestly think i-bankers get less than 30k bonus? And the reason why you dont get 2 guys to work for 50hrs each instead of the 1 guy for 100 hours makes no sense. If this was the case, why limit yourself to 2 and why not get 4 and work them for 25 hours each? They would be more fresh, right? You have no idea what you are talking about
I know my bonus number and the range (10k band) of a lot of other analysts. If you don't want to believe it, fine, but don't post misinformation on this board because you "think" it doesn't make sense. People a lot smarter than you decide what makes "sense" for analyst compensation, not you.
This thread is actually pretty amusing.
According to Sabrine, this is all a huge conspiracy with each analyst class perpetuating the myth that they are paid over 6 figures.
Six figures? Are you stupid? The average base salary for first year analysts fresh out of Wharton is 55k. I highly doubt first year bonus compensation is anywhere close to 100% of base pay.
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2004Rep…
[quote=banklove]Six figures? Are you stupid? The average base salary for first year analysts fresh out of Wharton is 55k. I highly doubt first year bonus compensation is anywhere close to 100% of base pay.
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2004Rep…]
Thanks for that valuable link. Why doesn't everyone go ahead and turn back their clocks 3 yrs. While we're at it, can I buy some Microsoft stock from the 1990's? Thanks.
[quote=banklove]Six figures? Are you stupid? The average base salary for first year analysts fresh out of Wharton is 55k. I highly doubt first year bonus compensation is anywhere close to 100% of base pay.
http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2004Rep…]
Thanks dumbass, no shit the numbers are lower in 2004. Actually, do you have the numbers for 1995 as I think the top bucket was 5k then, that information will be very useful to us! Cant believe how stupid some people are
he's not talking about base salary - everyone so far has been talking about total comps = base + year end bonus.
Sabrine, are you saying that the vast majority of BB analysts don't get USD100k plus? Or are you talking about small boutiques
I'm a Second Year Analyst, and going on to his Third Year as a Senior Analyst. I can honestly say that the Associates I work with don't do anything better than I do, and get paid bonuses over 200K. Don't you understand, nobody gets paid like Bankers. The work might suck, the hours long, but the pay is very very good. I say get the money, do your job well, don't take it too seriuos, cause its not, and invest that money right. $$$$
That right there sums it up, please close this thread
is IB overrated? (Originally Posted: 04/24/2014)
I am currently thinking about a future career in IB. I've seen a lot of posts claiming that IB is overrated. I was looking for others' thoughts on this. How hard is it really to move up in IBanking once you break in/get a great exit offer, and do a lot of IB analysts who don't achieve these two goals really go back to ordinary jobs like I've read online? Additionally, is doing IBanking for a non-top tier firm worth it, as you may not get a good exit op? Also, what are some other great jobs that offer a path to a top MBA and would be great for someone with a highly quantitative major (math/stats double major). I've heard prop trading has horrible exit opps and MBA opportunities due to lack of leadership development.
Thanks
Additionally, my GPA is slightly below the 3.5 cutoff, and I go to a top 15 school (target/semitarget). Would this completely take me out of the running if I don't raise it up by recruiting season?
Yes, IB is still worth it.
Its depends on what you mean by a non-top tier firm but yes, even at a crappy firm you'll get a good learning experience and leave with a good skillset. Exit pops will be different from an MS/GS but they'll still be fine.
There's no clear path to a top MBA school. You can come from a BB or from a no name spot and still get in. Just have a great story and why you want that particular school and you'll be fine.
Thanks for the response. I was just wondering approx. what % of IB analysts get good exit opps, and do some IB analysts really go back to ordinary jobs that they could've done without an IBanking stint? Since I am not too familiar with IB, would you say getting an IB analyst spot at Goldman guarantees making 300-500k by age 30?
Also, I know the IBanking lifestyle is greatly exaggerated for analysts (models and bottles etc.). Since you are on call all the time, how do most IBankers have fun when not working? I've also spoken to some alums at my school who have finished up 2 year stints, some at top banks. Some of them told me that IBanking wasn't worth it. What would you have to accomplish after that 2 year program to justify the sacrifices you made during those 2 years.
I would advise against doing IB purely for money or exit ops - although I'm sure a lot of people do it for those very reasons, the work will be much harder and the hours will feel much longer. I decided day 1 of my IB internship that I really liked the work, and also that I would hate the job and lifestyle if I was only doing it for money etc. Take that advice for what you will.
Hard to put a % on what proportion of analysts get great exit ops, especially since you haven't stated what kind of exit ops you're interested in. That being said, I'll say 2 things:
1) IB experience will serve you well and companies will look at it favourably, what you want to do after is almost irrelevant - you will get good work experience in IB 2) There is absolutely no guarantee that going through GS IB will guarantee you 300K-500K by the time you're 30 - that statement is frankly retarded. You certainly have a great shot at it, but it's by no means guaranteed. Also, you have a great shot at the same from other banks too (because you'll be making that at any good bank if you don't leave by that age, and can go to other jobs outside IB that pay the same with good experience from any solid bank).
Wukong123 - whether it's 'worth it' depends on a number of factors, the most important of which = what do you ultimately want to do? If you're interested in a career in IB or a buyside job, the IB analyst program is a great path (particularly non-capital mkts, see below). Even if you're not sure what you want to do, banking should give you a broad set of options coming out of a 2 year analyst program
As to your questions regarding career progression post IB - I worked at a BB in NY + am trying to procrastinate at the moment + thought others would be interested in some post analyst career #s = so I pulled up the analyst survey that my bank gave me when I finished the analyst program
Below is the % of my analyst class (US-only) that went into each field, separated by 2 groups - (1) Capital markets analysts, of which there were roughly 30 (2) Non-capital markets IB analysts, of which there were roughly 100; some firms only call this group IB, others do not. Note I am trying to avoid my firm's naming conventions to preserve anonymity
For the capital markets analysts in my class: -0% PE -90% stayed in IB (includes both associate promotes and analysts staying on for a 3rd year) -6% bschool (only includes guys/girls coming straight out of analyst program to bschool) -3% HF -0% VC -0% corporate
For the non-capital markets analysts in my class: -54% PE -28% stayed in IB (includes both associate promotes and analysts staying on for a 3rd year) -4% bschool (only includes guys/girls coming straight out of analyst program to bschool) -8% HF -3% VC -4% corporate
A few observations: (i) There's a pretty clear contrast between the capital markets (3% to buyside) vs. the non-capital markets analysts (65% to buyside)
(ii) The % who stayed at the firm is generally higher than I had expected. Would note that while buyside jobs are the goals of most analysts, others prefer to stay in banking. Common reasons for this are they like the job/think they will be better suited for it as a career, long-term career path without having to apply to Bschool at the end of the typical 2 year PE programs, bank provides geographic flexibility that can be harder to find on the buyside (e.g., if you're originally from Jordan and want to move back there, "top-tier BB" can provide stronger name brand in that region vs. a top-tier buyside job)
(iii) For capital markets: I was surprised that 90% stayed at the firm. I expected a high % to stay, but this is higher than I would've expected. I think that other BBs probably have better buyside placement than my firm, particularly b/c the leverage finance group at my former bank is not responsible for big/master M&A or lbo models, but instead 'modeling' is usually confined to term sheets and mkt comps. At some banks (again, not at mine), the lev fin team does in fact run a substantial portion of the real M&A or LBO models - I think these analysts probably have much better buyside placement.
(iv) I think the actual % who went into HFs is higher, but since this survey was conducted shortly before my analyst program ended, the % do not include analysts who left their 2/3 year analyst stints early for HFs. This applies for PE as well, but HFs are much more likely to recruit analysts for immediate start positions
lol, yes no doubt
Asking if investment banking is worth it in an investment banking forum will give you a very biased answer.
Careers That Hollywood Over-Hypes (IB #1?) (Originally Posted: 02/20/2013)
I saw this article "Careers That Hollywood Over-Hypes" on Yahoo earlier today and wanted to know how my fellow Monkeys felt about the description of being and investment banker.
I feel like the author of this article is trying to make his/herself feel better. Like really? Don't be a lawyer, that sucks -- you should be the lawyer's paralegal. Waste of time.
It's absolutely true. It's long hours of boring work. There aren't many careers as hyped up as ibanking. The main reason people do it, is to get out of it in 2 years.
And for the #5 on the list - what the hell is the difference between a Broker and a Personal Financial Advisor
Lol... I was thinking the same thing.
They fail to take into account the fact that many of the people that go into investment banking are not looking to make a career out of IB specifically and are looking to use the experience to leverage into other opportunities. The other opportunities on the list are generally jobs you remain in for a long period of time. However the job description is mostly accurate im sure
Don't know where they are getting those salary numbers from. 70k is base at almost every bank. Maybe they are looking at all series 7 license holders, which would include a ton of brokerage / PWM guys?
The average starting lawyer salary is ~$76k, I believe. But 160k is the standard starting salary in BigLaw. How is that possible? Skewed (actually bimodal) salary distributions. Those average salary statistics are almost meaningless.
Lol I'm a stats major, and in my first stats class my freshman year, the first thing my professor said was the quote:'there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.'
I don't think this was meant to take a jab at IBD. The person pretty much just listed a number of prestigious careers and listed an alternative.
Wouldn't have been surprised to see Doctor as overhyped and Physicians Assistant as underhyped. Same idea
Actually, I don't think I have ever seen an actual M&A banker in a movie outside of American Psycho. So how is it "hyped" at all?
Gekko was some sort of corporate raider, and Bud Fox was a broker. I don't like talking about Wall Street 2, but Le Boeuf was a HF guy there. Boiler Room was trading. Arbitrage was a hedge fund. Trading Spaces was commodities trading. Margin Call was (mostly) trading.
Oh, I forgot this was Hollywood. Anyone who works in finance is a "banker", including your financial advisor at MSSB.
Boiler Room was brokers... penny stock hawkers really...
Ah, my mistake. I somehow mixed up the title with a different movie. I shall repent by going to the Yahoo Finance board of an American Exchange-listed 20m market cap stock, and create a thread asking why it's a buy. Might as well make life easy for them.
Gordon Gekko was not a banker, but a corporate raider like Boesky, Icahn, etc. If only they made a movie about iBankers. But then again who wants to watch MSFT Excel for 2 1/2 hours? And yea Bud Fox was a nothing who was not gonna move up anywhere, most PWM guys don't unless they're interns. Seriously, Wall Street sucks at PR.
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The movie would follow BSD MDs, not Analysts.
Im actually pretty surprised that no one has tried to make a comedy or drama based on Monkey Business.
The number one hyped-by-hollywood career isn't i-banking; I can hardly think of any movies where i-bankers are (actually) portrayed.
The most hyped career by hollywood is, by far, any police/detective work position. Much respect to our civil servants, but this portrayal of cops and detectives as 24-hour badasses kicking down doors and solving crimes by looking at shreds of clothing under a magnifying glass is total BS. The Wire got pretty close to showing how it really is by mentioning the bureaucracy and paperwork they have to deal with, but there still was a lot of unrealistic showboating.
Kumar in Harold and Kumar.
GG works in PE... as in Gekko & Co.
Come on guys, rookie mistakes.
Read this "article" today. Pretty funny
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-douglas-is-shocked-you-went-into…
thought this was funny
The only movie I can think of is Family Mn with Nick CAge
There was Sigourney Weaver in 'Working Girl', she worked in M&A
Nobody mentioned Michael Douglas in "The Game"...pretty sure he was a banker?
Fav moment:
Whilst climbing over a wall one of his shoes falls off:
Michael Douglas: There goes $1,000. Girl with him: Your shoes cost $1,000? Michael Douglas: That one did.
Sign me up! ;)
In a lot of films, being an investment banker is just a plot device to establish that the character has no life outside of work and is wealthy
What did Jason Bateman do in Horrible Bosses?
I thought he was already an associate (based on age and degree) figured next stop would be VP atleast
"Sales" Not sure if they ever specifiedHe was also an M&A lawyer in that bodyswap movie with Ryan Reynolds.
edit: title = change-up
Oh no! You have to pass exams to be an investment banker, arrrggg, the horror.... make it stop!!!
How about Richard Gere in Pretty Woman? ... he was involved in hostile takeovers I believe
The guy in Dinner for Schmucks was in PE, right?
Yeah Dinner for Schmucks was PE "focusing in distressed assets" as Paul Rudd says. But to be honest its kinda murky because it seemed like they wanted to get into asset management for the big European guy. So they must have been some sort of firm that did both? Or maybe they wanted access to the European guy's cash so they had more capital to work with? Not really sure.
Personally, I think Hollywood overhypes being a superhero more than any other job/career. I tried to make the switch from finance to superhero-ing and it just wasn't worth it, IMO.
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