How did you pick your career?
As we know there are so many career streams you can go into within finance, it's a little intimidating for somebody still starting out in the career. The dream is to work in IBD but having a back up plan is always smart.
For those who are a few years into the career, specifically those outside the traditional IB, how did you choose your career path? Also would you take the same path again?
IB and finance in general was a suggestion from a former girlfriend back in college. Intimidating as it may seem, the best advice I can give is that your competition is both a lot smarter and a lot more stupid than they seem. As a whole, you can't sleep against your competitors because someone else is always there to take your potential spot. Individually, they're all idiots. Remember, you're competing against students. Their knowledge is as limited as yours. Always make the effort to go above and beyond and it will pay off; this is less true when you're already in industry, because everyone goes above and beyond when there's money to be made. Right now, things are on "easy mode", so seize the opportunity and be the best version of yourself.
Major key alert. All jokes aside, this is spot on.
DJ Khaled told me that
Dad gave me a network
What makes people choose other career paths? (Originally Posted: 01/06/2012)
I'm currently doing a degree (engineering) at Oxford in the UK. I did an Internship for a swiss bank and rejected their offer. I see so many people in Oxford (e.g. PhD students, tutors, lecturers, professors) who are clearly smart and yet they haven't thought of going into finance and banking.
I've looked at different job positions in finance/banking/trading and they fall into several categories but I'll divide them into 2: 1) Any degree is welcome - typical banking job. 2) 1st class + PhD in any highly quantitative field - trading firm offers.
The second option usually pays 200K GBP + a bonus that depends on your performance but is typically about 2m.
There are many job offers in the second group but very few people in the finance world who fit them. Most people who do fit such a job come from mathematics/physics/engineering but these people strangely are reluctant to go into finance even though they are aware of the pay.
A lot of my tutors and lecturers wouldn't go near trading firms while at the same time their research (part of it) is to develop trading algorithms and theory used by trading companies (although such companies have a lot of propriety work). Why is that?
I'm not even touching the Finance/Economics/Accounting departments and all the highly skilled people there. I doubt that lecturers make more than 60K p.a. so what makes them them stick to their position and not get a banking job?
"Those who can't do, teach. Those who can do, do."
That is certainly true for lower level education and lower level universities but otherwise is a very ignorant reply. Come on, you were once at uni, you know what goes on in there especially in the top-notch ones.
To elaborate on my previous comment: a lot of the new developments in science come from university research. A lot of startups are set up by university lecturers and PhD students (at least from our university). A lot of companies would hire university lecturers for more complex problems. All of the lecturers I know are working on developing new technologies which do not exist yet whether as a project sponsored by an existing company or for a startup they have created or as proof of concept. That's doing!
I think you have answered part of your question right there... What you mention in this quote is far more interesting than finance for the most part and can be quite lucrative in it's own right without sacrificing your university / academic career.
As to former academics who have gone into finance, it happens. I'm sure you are aware of LTCM and both their success and failure. If you haven't read "When Genius Failed" I recommend that you do. It's an interesting account of these events.
Heaven forbid not everyone wants to take that noble goal of making money off the misprice or expected failure of a company, country, etc. to "add value" to society.
I'm all for trading but don't criticize others because they want to make money doing something else. OP, you're not coming across as enlighten but as a tool. Seriously, there's more to life than banking. Get out of Uni and you'll see that.
If everyone came to finance then who would be the doctors, lawyers, pilots, police officers, engineers, etc...
Many of us here are obviously looking to pursue a career within financial services but a lot of people have other dreams that are deeper then being in finance and have their eyes set on other paths. A lot of my friends are not into finance, most of them are on track on becoming doctors, engineers, and lawyers.
Also remember that a lot of professors, as well as gov't officials, are former professionals who have already accrued a lot of personal wealth in the private sector.
The problem is selection bias of former academic folks coming back to academia after going to industry, and this stereotype prevents many professors from going to industry. As confirmed in many discussions with MIT professors about why they are not at hedge funds. The only ones that come back are those that fail in industry, and universities don't want them back. Due to this risk, and substantial risk of failure, they choose to stay.
The reason I'm asking this is simple: I'm looking for an epiphany. Unlike a lot of people when I hear the phrase "The top 1% holds 99% of the wealth" I hear "The top 1% holds 99% of the brains" and "The top 1% generates 99% of the wealth" but mostly it's the brain thing.
I don't want to sound like a person who did a philosophy degree (and therefore exhibits an intelligence insecurity complex) but I do think that in trading it's pretty much personal intelligence and attitude towards work that make the difference between a failure and a success. Intelligence is hereditary, something you're born and while work attitude can be changed intelligence can't so it's only those lucky individuals that have the brains that will succeed as traders.
To be a lecturer in a the top 5 universities (or top 10 or top 20 whatever) you do need to have brains and I wonder what's keeping them from not snatching up the opportunity that they've got.
Not to be arrogant I think I am averagely intelligent and I had my own personal reasons to decline the offer from a bank but just wondering about other scientists.
And you thought the best approach to finding your answers is to ask a forum filled predominately with undergrads that are studying accounting/finance...?
Why you would ask this on a finance site that is sparsely populated with science/engineering inclined posters is beyond me. Do you really think a truly capable theoretical physicist wants to spend his prime thinking years being a bank slave?
To leave the unconfined imaginative world of science where one could live forever by a beautiful discovery, for a life revolved around capital is a cheap trade, and is generally looked down upon by other academics. For all the morons saying 'those that can't do, teach" the 2008 crisis comes to mind.
Believe it or not many scientifically inclined people are not easily enticed by the more animalistic desires for wealth. It's a higher calling and I do refer to the theorists as keepers of the faith.
That's one of my main reasons (if not the main) I rejected an offer from the finance world. I really am not that interested in money except as it being a measure of performance.
There's other ways to make money too...
op your an idiot.
i know several guys in phd trading entry level positions and standard bonus is nowhere near 2m. come back when you got a clue thx, guy.
on top of that alot of traders are not genius physics phd, if youd ever met a trader you would know that, come back once you got a clue.
people that go into difficult phd programmes are usually smart enough to have no interest in money, kind of like this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Perelman
also for engineering phds you dont need to be a genius, even at top notch institutions i know several guys in such programs, and whilst clearly smart they arent genius either.
I strongly considered going the phd route as the work is alot more interesting than the utterly braindead stuff you do in the majority of finance, I chose not to as I found the fellow phd potential to be incredibly boring nerds and was bored of studying.
I'm not sure I believe that 100%. I get the fact that you are interested in money as an indicator of performance...but even an academic is interested in making an exceptionally comfortable life for themselves and their family. I would shoot for the most challenging position. Good luck, just remember....Network, Network, Network
Help me pick a career! (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)
Hey,
So I have become absolutely bored and miserable in my current job (corporate finance). It is bland and repetitive and I sit in a cubicle 12 hours a day, everyday looking at the exact same thing day in day out. I am wondering if some of you could help me to find a new industry or company that would be more in line with my interests.
I really like to travel. I love to be on the move. I love money. I would prefer seeing something new often that will help keep my interest. Finance, Entrepreneurship, Real Estate, and Politics are my favorite topics to discuss and learn about. I dont have a problem working a lot. I do like to be paid for working those long hours though. I have always thought that having the job "Up In the Air" was a cool gig (not necessarily firing people, but the lifestyle). Real estate and entrepreneurship related jobs would probably be most in line with my career interest.
Shoot, not sure what else to say. Any ideas to point me in the right direction would do wonders!
Thanks
Maybe management consulting? You'll travel (A LOT), always on the move, paid well, and can utilize your entrepreneurial thinking. Not sure youll be fan of the lifestyle tho
start a tv show that follows you to the biggest parties in every country. let me know, i'll be your sidekick
the novelty of anything wears off because it is a job. to keep life interesting you must develop a variety of outlets. we are too multidimensional to find "our life's calling" or find the "perfect career". All those concepts are an assload of antiquated, asinine bullshit.
You mentioned you like RE and entre. Maybe commercial real estate with listings in multiple states (lyke omg so you can totally live out your "Up In The Air" fantasy and travel yay!!) Doesn't seem like you want to launch a new tech startup, but a similar outlet for entre interests is being in Sales. The n2 goal of most startups (after product development) should be client / revenue development--which is sales. If you like RE and entre would it be that bad for you to look into RE sales? Sure, you wont get the online WSO street cred (ohh noezzz!) and people likely wont be quoting you in the profile signature by becoming just another random RE broker--but who knows maybe you can then monetize the shitload of contacts you will amass over the years, by participating on CRE development deals down the road. There's many CRE brokers who bounce between development/investment and brokerage...
DDM's got it right. Also look into real estate lending.
DDM . i like the way you think
From what you described it sounds like you are interested in the lifestyle offered by consulting.
traveling + on the move = cons
Consulting is where you should go. You get to talk in circles and visit other companies, that like your consulting firm, have no idea what they are doing, thus the reason they hired a consulting firm staffed with 25 year old recent grads.
No.
Make a list of things that you want to achieve in the professional sphere and structure a career accordingly.
When did you guys decide your career path (Originally Posted: 09/06/2014)
Hi everyone,
I was wondering when did you guys choose your career path and what made you choose it. Like when did you decide you want to do IB or why you did not consider sales/trading (including commodity/prop trading)/am/pb/ER etc.
I am a junior right now personally I want to do ER more and I feel that trading is really exciting. Unfortunately my area has very few ER/trading positions and my school has much more alum in IB.
Would you please share your experience in deciding your path?
Many thanks!
The non-advice here is to not think about it too hard. Do your research, figure out what it is you think you want to do, what it is that the role does, make the best decision you can with the information available to you and then go for it.
Since your school has so many alumni in IB, go talk to them and figure out why you would like or dislike it. I'm guessing you go to a target if so many alumni are in IB? If you have a good school behind you, you should be in decent shape for general recruiting. Might even be a good thing if most people at your school are busy focusing on IB. I did something similar and went for an industry where there are (literally) approximately no alumni from my school. It worked out.
A year in, if you still hate it, you can always look for something else. Whatever you do though, I DO suggest giving it 110% for at least 6 months without worrying about whether you made the right choice, whether you might like something else more, etc.
Nothing stopping you from interviewing for 2 types of role and then picking the best offer/culture/people that you get either. Just make sure every interviewer thinks the company they work for is your dream job.
Had an idea of what I thought I wanted to do but ultimately all you can do is your best. Prior to getting an internship I had a high GPA, did volunteer work and started early in order to take advantage of recruiting. From what I was offered I chose what I thought would be the most fun, interesting and lucrative. Relatively. Next time around I leveraged my experience and took the best offer based on the same criteria. Ultimately you can only control so much of the process.
There's always gonna be some balance of what path is most available to you and what path you most want to take. I'd just say always try to maximize the benefits of each, and never stress too hard about taking one over the other.
For me though, it was really a matter of finding work that I had access to and actually enjoyed. I did internships in a lot of different areas because I kept feeling dissatisfied with the idea of doing that sort of work long term. Now, after a little bit of time out of school, I'm going to start in an entry-level role I really am excited about. I'll be 2 years behind most of the kids I graduated with though.
Ultimately, don't stress it too much and there's always more exit opps to a position than forums make it sound like.
Choosing a career from good choices (Originally Posted: 04/26/2012)
Just a quicky here interested in ideas from experienced ppl
lets says one has the following offers: currently living in London age 24, graduating from grad school, entry level in career - want to choose industry/career path to gain long term expertise speak Chinese - so want to gravitate there from US - so long term want to end up there, or do US-China related stuff main functional interest/expertise is marketing, sales, digital branding
options: A) Google - Dublin - SMB Services - helping EU small companies set up/manage their AdWords accounts
B) Thomson Reuters - London (Canary Wharf) Business Graduate program - 2 yrs rotation, do different roles in different countries in 6 months rotation. not sure what one would do after its finished..
C) Christian Dior Couture - London intern at Harrods, do some in store sales - can turn into full time later entry barrier high, connection based luxury industry
Obviously its personal, but just interested for ppls ideas. Dior would most likely be most person-to-person based, and could quickly lead to China employment. Google is the best brandwise
I will always prefer a job where I am getting a chance to expand my network. Networking is a power ful tool, if you want to be sucessful in life. I am not sure, but can you give me more details on second job option...if u dont have details ..I encourage u to find it...
Again these are my personal views, there are people on this site who are extremely talented and smart. Hope they will throw more light on your question.
Thomson Reuters Business Grad Program is this: http://careers.thomsonreuters.com/Students/Bachelors-Masters/North-Amer…
this is as much as there is for the job description.
Google is mainly AdWords work and customer service over the phone for at least 6 months. Dior is first learning to sell stuff in shops like Harrods and then possible moving up. However luxury industry is quite vague in terms of roles and opportunities, can get a lot of exposure quickly or can be mundane for a long time.. (i assume based on heard experiences)
My friend went through Adwords work for google, he was not very positive about it. Now, he works in yahoo....same job....So probably you can filter out this one....and start comparing other two.....
See it as a long term....and get different opinion. My opinion about adword is based on what i heard from its 1 employee.
Question: When you say you speak Chinese - do you mean that you're a native Chinese speaker, or that you're a foreigner who's been learning Chinese for some time?
P.S. - The Thomson Reuters gig sounds pretty neat...
A sounds boring and not really that great.
B sounds fun, exciting, and dynamic.
C sounds cool but only if you want to be in men's fashion, which I think is a cool industry. Sometimes I think about how cool it would to be a super high end, old school tailor/have my own store/clothing line. I think that it is a beautiful trade.
all in all, is a brand name like Google and the company perks stronger for future employment? i'd think that w Google i gain expertise in digital marketing (although I hate being always in front of a computer)
and w Dior I'd be starting my path in the world of luxury industry..which may lead to interesting heights or be very boring...
so at Google - long term digital branding/advertising - can go to agencies, other tech startups, very strong tech network, teamwork, potential wife in Dublin ,)
at Dior - long term emerging markets marketing manager (China), LVMH universie, less team work, more pretentious world, real retail, substantial products..
im planning on doing a Dior internship until Sept and than start Google.. this way can get both. Reuters is too long for 2 years doing "training"
thanks for all the answers!
HELP deciding career choices (Originally Posted: 11/10/2009)
Hi Everyone,
How do people decide what role they are best suited for in finance? I have enjoyed all my previous internships (trading, banking) but have been unable to find a full time job in either of those.
I'm at a point where I'm desperately looking to get my foot in the door. I would like to get a few years of experience before I have the perfect idea of what I want to have my long term career in (its definitely finance though) but still feel pretty dumb when I network with people and they ask me what and why I'm interested in a certain role.
Any help would be really appreciated!
Buttercup,
I'm a senior in college that interviewed for trading/banking positions. It's great that you had internship experiences in both areas.
What I would recommend you doing is spending time thinking about what you enjoyed about each position, and why you enjoyed it. A lot of this will require some personal reflection. This also goes to answering why you are interested in a certain role. Discuss your prior experiences and what you enjoy, but to give a better and deeper answer, I'd also think about why exactly you got into finance and what helped you determine xyz position is the right fit. If you have something that sparked your interest early on, and that spark is genuine (and if unique, even better), then use that.
Hope this helps
thanks alphageneration, just PM'd you for further advice
Your advice requested: Help me decide between two career paths! (Originally Posted: 11/19/2009)
Screw it.
Is this a joke post?
Spare 5 min? That won't even get us through 1/4 of your story. (I can just see the response..."maybe if you learn to read faster"). But seriously dude, your post is way too long and others have already been helpful in your old thread.
Thank you stk for your response.
no no im not such a douche...shit i think i should change it to 10 minutes, but screw 20, no way!...Anyway, I am looking for more opinions. Do you have any on my situation? I know you said "others have already been helpful in your old thread", but i can't find any kind of consensus, even partial, in the responses. If you did, can you please let me know what it was? I am not joking, because I am still on this forum looking for some kind of consensus.
Hey thanks again for the response. Sorry if i I made a mistake in estimating how long it would take to read my post...Dude I honestly just need advice on deciding which way to go...it's not a small decision for me...
And learn how to summarize, especially if you want to do Banking or Consulting!
Apply for masters in finance /MFE at all the top schools...mind you ..top schools..this is from an indian pursuing MSc Finance in the US..its a tough job market right now and you will need a BRAND NAME to get you further.. If you do not get into any of the top schools (there are very few) go for the spain option.. and ya ..learn to summarize buddy :)
Please just post to the original topic
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/advice-sought-on-two-career-optio…
Reason to choose career in technology (Originally Posted: 06/02/2013)
Look at the list of 15 youngest billionaires on the world. If you exclude inherited money out, everyone of them has made their fortune with tech companies. And most of them are coders.
good job
So what? Think of all the people in tech. Think of all the people in finance. Think of all the people who are m/billionaires. You can make money doing anything, the fact that a small number of people became billionaires as a young age isn't a good reason to do it unless it's something you're passionate about. They got lucky.
In fact I'd argue that since so many people see these got-rich-quick kids then the competition is higher than with some traditional businesses. Taking a fresh spin on an old concept would probably turn out far more profitable (in terms of probability...) than trying to create the next big website or app.
You can make money in any job as long as you're darn good at it. Also you need to be passionate enough to stick with it until it earns you a living.
Thank you for this revelation. However you're wrong - these people aren't coders, they're innovators and visionaries that just so happen to code. Anyone can learn to code, just like anyone can learn to build a DCF, but that doesn't make you the next Horward Marks.
Deciding on career path? (Originally Posted: 08/19/2013)
Hi guys, I'm having a tremendous amount of difficulty coming to a conclusion on my career path, in regards as to whether I want to follow the accounting path through Big-4, or work hard consistently and try to make it into a top MBA for a finance focused career path. I attend the University of Florida and this year I will be a sophomore. I just finished financial accounting and actually enjoyed it, it's a notoriously difficult class here and I got an A in it. I'm taking business finance in the spring alongside managerial accounting as I'm pledging this semester. I have a 3.83 overall GPA and the same critical tracking GPA if not higher.
My cousin went through UF's undergrad program in finance and currently works at JP Morgan and I believe he will be going back for his MBA, which is basically my other option aside from accounting.
Would the best course be to stay accounting (it's easier to switch from accounting to finance) until I take business finance in the spring and decide based off of my abilities in that class?
Thanks
Go for finance and MBA in a few years. I worked for Big 4 and it was not as challenging as IB.
Where are you pledging?
Get a part time accounting gig,,, then if it's not your thing go for finance sophomore internship.
Need help choosing career path (Originally Posted: 01/23/2015)
I'll tell you about myself in cliff notes:
-junior year finance major at University of Central Florida -21 years old -currently have a 3.3 GPA (one bad semester) and plan on raising it to above a 3.5 by graduation. My subject area GPA will be around a 3.7-3.8. -unsure if relevant (I've heard it can be depending on job/application method), but SAT score and ACT score are 2020 and 31 respectively -undecided which branch of finance I want to go into -I value a balanced lifestyle - I don't want to work 90-100 hours a week up through my 30s.. ideal work week would be 60-70 hours or less.. don't mind grinding for the first few years though -I would like to earn in the six figures by the time I'm in my late 20s -my goal salary in the long run would be around $200-300k -my dad works at a country club and has lots of connections for me -my best connections are in PWM and financial advising (my uncle and close family friends). they are "higher-ups" and do well
I can provide any additional info. its hard for me to figure out what interests me most without experience in the field - I'm gonna buy some books to read to help narrow it down.
So what industries would you recommend? I'm looking into PWM/FA, insurance, IB (boutique and large firms), PE, VC, HF, etc. with the last few seeming like they may not be what I'm looking for (long hours, high stress, mainly recruit out of Ivy leagues etc) thanks in advance for your help WSO!
Need help choosing career path (crosspost w/ new user introductions) (Originally Posted: 01/23/2015)
I'll tell you about myself in cliff notes:
-junior year finance major at University of Central Florida -21 years old -currently have a 3.3 GPA (one bad semester) and plan on raising it to above a 3.5 by graduation. My subject area GPA will be around a 3.7-3.8. -unsure if relevant (I've heard it can be depending on job/application method), but SAT score and ACT score are 2020 and 31 respectively -undecided which branch of finance I want to go into -I value a "balanced" lifestyle - I don't want to work 90-100 hours a week up through my 30s.. ideal work week would be 60-70 hours or less.. don't mind grinding for the first few years though -I would like to earn in the six figures by the time I'm in my late 20s -my goal salary in the long run would be around $200-300k -my dad works at a country club and has lots of connections for me in various branches of finance -my best connections are in PWM and financial advising (my uncle and close family friends). they are "higher-ups" and do relatively well
I can provide any additional info. its hard for me to figure out what interests me most without experience in the field - I'm gonna buy some books to read to help narrow it down.
So what industries would you recommend? I'm looking into PWM/FA, insurance, IB (boutique and large firms), PE, VC, HF, etc. with the last few seeming like they may not be what I'm looking for (because of the long hours, high stress, mainly recruit out of Ivy leagues etc) thanks in advance for your help WSO!
I doubt you would enjoy insurance. But I mean really why do you think you can handle a tough 100 hour week in IB? Think about what would make you really happy day in and day out regardless of the $. Then work towards that.
It won't let me pm you yet (not enough banana points lol).
And I think what I'd prefer is to work 70 hours a week or less. Bringing in all the money in IB wouldn't mean much to me if I don't have much time to relax and enjoy it. So are there any industries in finance that are less intense than IB that pay around a $200k salary? I know some top financial advisors can make that/more than that, but how typical is that?
Yeah man, as the other posts have stated - this is a personal decision, ideally internships could help with you decision.
This whole post was the exact type of response I was looking for! thanks a ton, looking into it now.
Right, I just feel overwhelmed with all the different possible routes and no first-hand experience. Trying to rule out as many industries as possible before choosing an internship.
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